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back to article The world's first Windows Phone 8 hands on – what's it like?

It was harder than usual, but not impossible, to get my hands on Nokia's two new Windows 8 phones today. Word has already gone around Twitter that press and analysts were forbidden from handling the devices. This is not true – and on a scale of difficulty it hardly rated alongside reporting from outside Baghdad's Green Zone. So …

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Anonymous Coward

With so much battery capacity it's no wonder it is heavy.

Weight = quality in many markets (except bicycles, where people lust after super light parts).

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Anonymous Coward

BBC NEWS

Nokia share price dropped 2% at the release of this phone.

Hmmmmm.

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"Is it heavy?"

"Yes"

"Then it's expensive. Put it down."

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Re: BBC NEWS

...and down 13% at the close. I expect this is because there was no detail of pricing or availability. Not only that, but it looks like neither the phones or the OS are anywhere near as ready as they'd like them to be - I doubt if they'll be in the shops before the end of October.

Since the iPhone 5 will be announced next week,and will probably be available almost immediately, that's a big problem. It may not have everything that Nokia has added to the Lumia, but doubtless it will have plenty of new 'magic' to get people excited.

Getting the Lumia announced before the iPhone was probably the right thing to do, but every week that goes by without it being available will just mean more lost opportunity and more sales of the S III and iPhone.

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Happy

Re: BBC NEWS

I like to think it was in response to Andrew posting this article ;)

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Stop

Re: BBC NEWS

18% actually. Investors realise too little too late

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Re: BBC NEWS

I've given up using the stock market as a good way to determine value of a company. Half the time people are manipulating it, the other half people are deliberately shorting it. Look at the way Facebook share price rises just before another slide begins where you can see that some invisible hand (bad joke) has pumped it up so that smaller fish will buy in and the bigger fish can divest themselves of toxic shares at less of a loss. There are big players in the markets and whenever they're confident that a stock is going to start going one way, it's in their interests to begin that process with a slight shift in the other direction so they can get in at a better price point (whether lower, or higher if short selling). It's a bit like someone counter-turning on a motorbike.

Basically, be wary of drawing any conclusions from the stock market unless it's your field of expertise. My area of expertise is technology so I look at that to determine value, and these look like solid products. I think they will sell well.

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Nokia's lumia phones somehow don't look premium.. just look like cheaply made featureless plastic slabs.

I don't get Nokia these days..

As for Microsoft... I'm perfectly happy that they can't hack it to build a new monopoly...

I love seeing them bleed large amounts of cash on a ~2% market share, when they were unwilling to spend anything for almost a decade to fix widely known issues in Windows Mobile, when they had 36% market share...

Good for them, a just punishment for hanging customers out to dry over and over...

Remember buying Microshuft DRM music? A few years later, they turned off their DRM servers, everybody's purchased music was gone...

Go die in a fire, Microsoft? it'll be fun!

And take Elop with you, before he finishes off whats left of Nokia.

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Re: BBC NEWS

But you could say that of all phones - why should Nokia align their releases with Apple's?

The Iphone 4S is almost a year old - every week that goes by is lost sales to Samsung, HTC and Nokia (and the disasterously sliding sales over the last few months prove it - a drop of 10 million in the last quarter alone!).

Meanwhile, there won't be an update to the Galaxy S3 until mid next year.

All companies tend to do yearly upgrade cycles (though some like Samsung stagger releases of their less mainstream models throughout the year). The original Lumia release was at the end of last year, with other models following early this year, so this release looks set to follow that, one year on. What's your source for the release date anyway? The announcement said Q4 in some markets, which could still meet the WP8 launch.

As for share price, who cares. The Daily Fail scaremongered with that in its headlines too - bit sad for the BBC to stoop to that kind of reporting, though given their Apple obsession, it doesn't surprise me.

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Flame

Re: BBC NEWS

Yeah, let's not forget that it's these speculators and stock dabblers trading in virtual currencies that have helped put us in our current economic climate. Trusting them is almost as bad as trusting a politician - they'll say anything if they think it will make them a quick buck, and sod whoever's toes they might tread on doing it.

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Re: BBC NEWS

Buy on rumour; sell on news.

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FAIL

Re: BBC NEWS

Well, the thing is, why would anyone buy a Nokia Lumia now? It wasn't bad enough that all current Lumia's wont't get updated to the new version of WinPho, no, now you'd be faced with buying a doubly-obsolete product. For the next two to three months, no one in their right mind is even going to consider buying a Nokia smartphone. Even if they sell ten million of the 920 and 820 in the final quarter (a very tall order), it still won't make up for all the sales lost due to this premature announcement.

Nokia has made a huge mistake by displaying a phone this fas in advance of the actual purchase date. Also, how many companies would be foolish enough to show off a phone whose OS wasn't even ready? I get that they're trying to get the jump on the onslaught of WinPho 8 devices (ahem) coming next month, but the message they're sending right now is: "Here's our new phone, it's big and heavy and yellow, the OS is just for demonstration purposes, and no you can't have one". That may have worked for Eric Cartman, but I doubt it'll work for Elop.

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Re: BBC NEWS

WP7 isn't being completely dropped. Nokia are even bringing out a new WP7 device in parallel with the WP8 ones. You can code for both WP7 and WP8 at the same time. I agree many will hold off from buying a WP7 device in favour of wating a couple more months, but anyone who buys a WP7 device is still going to get something that works well as a phone with a lot of modern features and software being released for it for a long time to come.

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Trollface

Remember buying Microshuft DRM music? A few years later, they turned off their DRM servers, everybody's purchased music was gone...

1) It was rented, never bought.

2) If you wanted you could (and still can) switch over to Zune Music Store (soon to be Xbox Music) and continue renting music

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Anonymous Coward

To steal another's phrase,

"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it."

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Re: BBC NEWS

I doubt the iPhone 5 will be anything to get excited about.

What more can they add? better camera, screen, CPU, battery life. Evolution not revolution has been the case for a few years now.

The software is where the big changes can happen and iOS6 doesn't do anything that remarkable that iOS5 couldn't do. If anything the big changes are more about divorcing Google.

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Anonymous Coward

Oh and Samsung's flimsy plastic creaky Galaxy phones are super solid?

Have you even picked up a Lumia? they're not iPhone build but they're better than HTC and Samsung.

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Anonymous Coward

Have you even picked up a Galaxy SIII? They're not made of plastic.

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Re: "Is it heavy?"

That's the first rule of optics.

How to test if this is a high quality lens - pick it up!

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Uh...

My Desire HD is basically an ingot of aluminium.

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FAIL

Have you even picked up a Galaxy SIII? They're not made of plastic.

Yes they are - Polycarbonate. A "nicer' plastic, but plastic just the same

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Bronze badge

Re: BBC NEWS

This may be an unpopular opinion but it's true. Most people buy phones, even smart phones on price, not features. These are the people that are still buying phones running Android 2.2.

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Re: BBC NEWS

> WP7 isn't being completely dropped. Nokia are even bringing out a new WP7 device in parallel with the WP8 ones.

But the same appears to be true of Symbian, and there's lots of apps from the past years, and you aren't at the mercy of the app store plug being pulled, you can load what you like.

> You can code for both WP7 and WP8 at the same time.

But that's true of many different systems. I have a BlackBerry App that looks identical to the Symbian app.

The problem I see is that people kept going on about a third significant ecosystem for smartphones, when there were already at least 4.

So the fix is to try to kill number 3 and replace it with a new ecosystem and then a bit later replace that one with yet another new ecosystem. So instead of one significant ecosystem, you now have two insignificant ones and a 3rd new one on the way from the same manufacturer (Who still have a significant feature phone ecosystem, and a couple more insignificant ecosystems)

Definitely reminds me of Sega pulling the plug on the Saturn and then wondering why its replacement wasn't a huge success (despite being pretty good).

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turned off DRM servers

Thats one damned good reason to stick to proper books and proper music....

All this drm protected online crud is just a rip off and will leave you without money or goods very shortly. I don't even trust the kindles and similar.

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Anonymous Coward

"Polycarbonate is a ceramic"

No it isn't, it's a thermoplastic polymer

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Anonymous Coward

"Yes they are - Polycarbonate. A "nicer' plastic, but plastic just the same"

They make riot shields out of transparent polycarbonate. Trying to conflate it in people's minds with cheap, commonly used plastics such as PETE and PVC is disingenuous as polycarbonate is several hundred times stronger.

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Well, the first comment still stands. PC and PC-ABS and even glass fibre reinforced plastic can be very hard or scratch-proof or have many other discreet characteristics depending on the application. Hell, there's poly-amid plastics that reside inside IC engines used a timing chain runners withstanding both heat and friction.

This however, does not change the fundamental, plastic is plastic is plastic. Is it better than glass or ceramics? Could well be; depending on the application.

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FAIL

@Mark .

"As for share price, who cares. The Daily Fail scaremongered with that in its headlines too - bit sad for the BBC to stoop to that kind of reporting, though given their Apple obsession, it doesn't surprise me."

At this point, having read the 199 comments to date, the only people mentioning Apple are those complaining about them. These individuals, like Mark, will rant and rave about how the press have a bias towards the fruity company and Mark has gone as far to accuse the Reg of essentially being Apple shills! So I ask you, who exactly has the Apple obsession, Mark . ?

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Anonymous Coward

"Trying to conflate it in people's minds with cheap, commonly used plastics such as PETE and PVC is disingenuous as polycarbonate is several hundred times stronger."

3.5 to 4.5 times actually, but hey, who counting?

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I had a Lumia 800

Great design. Like Nokia is famous for. I loved it. The problem was the OS. If Nokia came out with a Lumia running Android I'd be first in the queue. As it is, with WinPho, you won't even find me in the queue.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I had a Lumia 800

I fail to understand how people can dismiss a product, not only before it has been released, but before all information about it is available.

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Re: I had a Lumia 800

They won't put android on it because android is a budget OS for budget phones.

These phones aren't meant to appeal to the homeless and football fans so even though windows is risky it at least won't appear to consumers as if they put a tesco value OS on the hardware.

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Silver badge

Re: I had a Lumia 800

Complete opposite for me. I bought the Lumia 710 because of the OS which I liked a lot. I really didn't care much about camera quality or memory so the cheaper one was great for me. I found the OS very responsive and it did everything I cared about. So much so I wasn't planning to upgrade to a WP8 device, though the cheaper one of these new phones looks useful.

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JDX
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Re: I had a Lumia 800

It's great how you don't let things like not knowing what WP8 is like get in the way of such a confident decision. Who needs facts, pick a decision and stick to it no matter once!

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Re: I had a Lumia 800

I'm going to disagree. Win8 looks like it has a simply awesome UI for a phone/tablet. Better than what Android or iOS currently offer. Obviously Windows comes with baggage that may or may nor float your boat and it's going to be a bit applications light just now, but for ease of use on a touch device I think it's going to be hard to beat.

I'm not going to buy one (I don't want Windows, thank you) but we should not be afraid to acknowledge good design when we see it. We can now expect a response from the Android vendors and the UIs there will improve. Awesome.

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Trollface

Re: I had a Lumia 800

So, when Samsung make there own interface to their proprietary BADAss OS which emulates WP8, can we expect to see Microsoft suing them?

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I wish people would think

Just occasionally. Everyone can be an idiot, stick only to what they are told is the best, buy only what they are used to and make stupid comments about things they have no idea about. For Gods sake I am one of the 10,000 that Elop scrapped because of his stupid ignorant blinkered and incorrect view (the one that has turned the profitable, expensive, market leading company into a loss making, low value - look at the shares, irrelevance) but the phone is worth a look, worth a try, and worth considering. The OS is neither here nor there, what can and does the phone do, does it do that better than the others, is it as a package something that is better value than the next? The answer will be determined person to person, but just to say I won't look because someone has told me that windows is bad is just ignorant and stupid.

I can imagine you in a polling station... oh I must vote for the "bugger the country up and sack everyone" party because I won't even look at what they've done in the past, or what the alternatives might be... just the sort of stupidity that leads to 'safe seats' and crap politics/.

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Meh

Phone?

But would it actually fit on your pocket? How does it compare to a Jesusphone?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Phone?

Anyone who used to have to carry around a Nokia Communicator for work purposes could easily fit Ronnie Corbett in their pocket without missing their stride.

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Re: Phone?

Used to have a communicator (and before that a Psion series 5), both fitted well in a jacket pocket, failed the shirt pocket test... but when not at work I used a Sony Z5.

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jai
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FAIL

too big

a centimetre thick? helloooo this is the 80s calling, we want our brick-phone back!

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Gimp

Re: too big

Thats only 0.7mm thicker than the current iPhone ( or an incredible 700 microns in marketing speak).

Stick one of those shitty bumpers on your iPhone and its already ~1.2mm thick, more if its a 'protective' bumper.

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Facepalm

Re: too big

The iPhone 4S is 9.3mm thick and seems to sell fairly well. The are lots of reasons for and against buying a new Lumia phone but an extra 0.7mm in thickness is not something any sane person would be troubled over.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: too big

because its 0.7mm thicker than an iPhone?

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Downvotards amaze me

Down voting a comment like this really brings into question the value of downvoting at all.

Downvoting seems to be used for two reasons:

a) Allow someone to express a negative emotional response that cannot be supported with a coherent set of words.

b) Astroturfing by shills (of which the MS variety seem to be breeding).

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Re: too big

I'm actually the opposite - all this slender stuff is getting on my nerves, even the iPhone 4 cramps me up trying to hold it with 1 hand and type with the same hand's thumb.. And what do people do with their slender phones? Stick them in a >1cm thick case.

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Re: too big

Its a whole 1.4 mm thicker than an iPhone 4. Is that really that much? Especially when you consider that the original iPhone was 0.9mm thicker than this Nokia, the 3G thicker still at 1.6mm more than the Nokia. Its hardly 80s phone dimensions.

Now, if you were complaining about width and height, then I'd agree with you - but I'd also say the same about every modern phone - I'm still using an ancient, tiny, flipphone which does everything I want from a phone.

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rvt

Re: Downvotards amaze me

c) Childish behavior name calling (Fapple, Sample, jesusphone etc...)

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Paris Hilton

Re: Downvotards amaze me

There is no value in down voting and no point taking any notice of any down votes a post elicits.

I don't know what motivates the retards who click the down vote button instead of providing an informative retort to a post that they disagree with but whatever it is, it's not worth the effort of trying to understand.

The upvote can be useful as a substitute for making "me too! " posts but down votes are just lame.

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