back to article Ulster Bank waves £100 at punters pummelled by RBS IT fiasco

Small businesses and personal customers that were affected by IT problems experienced by Ulster Bank can claim up to £100 in expenses incurred as a result of the problems under plans outlined by the bank. In June RBS Group announced that a "large number" of its NatWest and Ulster Bank customers, and some RBS customers, had been …

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The interesting question...

is how they intend to compensate non-customers?

Are they saying that they won't help people who did not receive payments that should have come out of Ulster bank accounts?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The interesting question...

I didn't think that there was a problem with money coming out of accounts and that was half of the problem for the customers.

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Re: The interesting question...

There were stories at the time of employers failing to make the payroll because they were paying through RBS.

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Just a pity...

...that £100 won't cover any of the expenses incured with:

- pleading with Mortage co. to explain why mortgage not paid

- admin costs for negotiations and writing letters to obtain admission of guilt from UB, so as to negate effects on credit rating

- juggling cash from other accounts to pay salaries, or even arranging overdrafts/loans

- writing letters to reclaim costs from UB for above overdrafts/emergency loads

etc etc.

Needs another zero on the end, I recon.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just a pity...

Personally I think a hundred quid, on top of the commitment that no-one will be out of pocket is pretty bloody good. Then again whingers will always find something to whinge about, eh?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just a pity...

Not sure how you're valuing your time, but none of what you've quoted adds up to £1000.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just a pity...

That is the problem, £100 is likely to NOT cover out of pocket expenses....

Think about it, your Credit Card charges you £20 for being late.

Your mortgage is paid late so your interest is an extra £20 that month.

No money in your account due to wages late, so to buy food for your family you borrow £100 from a quick cash place, and end up paying £150 back... Already £90 in actual costs...

Add in 3 hours on the phone @ £15/hour its another £45

So £135, 35 above their maximum

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FAIL

Re: AC just above ...

RTFA. Now, after you've read it again, RTFYA.

It clearly states that they will pay an additional 20% on top of these expenses up to a maximum of £100. So they cover your totally made up costs of £135 and then they'll give you an extra £27 for the heartache. But then again, they'd totally reject your demand of £15/hr for being on the phone and they'll also reject that it took 3 hours cos I can bet you it wouldn't have taken that long.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just a pity...

> Not sure how you're valuing your time, but none of what you've quoted adds up to £1000.

I agree entirely. But using minimum wage rates and reasonable time might be 'fairer'. On the other hand, my mortgage company charges me £50 for the privilege of receiving a letter telling me I missed a payment so I think it is entirely reasonable to reclaim that £50 charge *and* charge RBS/UB £50 for the letter of explanation I had to send in reply. There's £100 straight off.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just a pity...

RBS/Ulster bank will be covering the cost of your letter from the Mortgage company.

As for your charging £50, you at least admit that you're not being fair. If customers don't deal fairly with their banks when they are trying to deal fairly with you, why should they bother to be fair in the future?

As a further point, I'm not even sure it's legal for a mortgage company to charge £50 for a letter, you should move your mortgage if that's the case, or ask them for your money back.

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Meh

"Inverted commas"

The use of "certain language" by "financial institutions" always "concerns" me when they're "required" to "provide compensation" to their "customers".

Presumably the bank's intended context for all of these terms results in the number of people to whom the bank owes money to be in the region of "zero".

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Paris Hilton

Re: "Inverted commas"

You know it was the article that used "inverted commas", right?...

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FAIL

<-------------

This month I said goodbye to RBS and said hello Co-op.

I am not looking for a free handout, I just want a slightly better banking experience.

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Anonymous Coward

Hester has said he will not take his £2.4m bonus has been reported as saying that "there needed to be a cultural change in banking. "[Bankers] thought they were masters of the universe, when they should have been servants of the customer.", words are cheap, no doubt he had a crocodile on hand to provide the tears.

Strange I would have thought that having got rid of 20,000+ staff, including the 1,800 experienced IT staff that he replaced with cheap inexperienced off-shore staff, that the bank would have had enough money to pay his fat cat bankster bonus, the legacy of Sir Mr Goodwin lives on.

In 1932 Georges Clemenceau, the French journalist, physician and statesman and one time president of France said "War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men" (often misquoted as "War is too important to be left to the generals"), to paraphrase Georges Clemenceau, banking is too important to be left to the bankers. The same applies to the banks, nationalise every single last one of them, banking is too important to left in the hands of banksters who are only concerned with short term profits to boost their own salaries and bonuses.

Nationalise and amalgamate all retail banks and run them as a non-profit organisations whose primary goal should be to provide the reliable cheap banking services that modern society needs in order to conduct business.

And don't even get me started on the Libor rate fixing scandal.

And it's not £100 compensation, its up to £100 compensation, probably £20 if you're lucky!

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Anonymous Coward

Hmm...

Well, I can see why you removed the original post to repost anonymously...

I am one of the ones who lost his job at RBS and I'll just point out that: Stephen Hester is doing exactly what he was employed to do - by New Labour and not stopped doing by the coalition, I don't agree with what he was employed to do, but the government has to bear a significant portion of blame. This is in no way the legacy of Fred Goodwin, who didn't offshore and had very limited, targeted outsourcing.

Running any industry, such as banking, as a wholly nationalised entity tends to result in stagnation, complacency, an inability to innovate and delivery of an expensive and poor service. Some things work as nationalised entities, should even be required to be nationalised entities, but these are things which should be subsidesed, such as trains, roads, bridges, council services etc. Not banking.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hmm...

I didn't say banks should be subsidised. The primary goal of retail banks should be to provide a banking service to private individuals and companies.

Currently most banks are profit driven companies that just happen to be banks, their goal is to make money for the share holders and senior management, at any cost as we have seen.

Anyway, how much innovation do you need to run a checking account?

As you say, Hester was employed by the government, but remember we, the voters, employ the government to manage and provide public services, the government were not voted in to make profit for big businesses (in theory).

I deleted my original post to make changes to it (edit function please elReg), and it is Goodwin's legacy, because it was his ego that brought Abn Amro, he was in such a hurry to stop HBSC from getting any part of Abn Amro that he failed to carry out proper due diligence on the purchase which resulted in RBS in state its in now.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Hmm...

Ok... There is nothing wrong with a bank being a profit driven company.

A simple current account has an incredible amount of innovation compared with just twenty or thirty years ago: ATMs, chip and pin, faster payments, overdrafts, free banking, internet banking, phone banking, SMS alerts for spending on your card, banks open when you actually want them to be. I could go on.

The profits that are made at RBS at the moment, unless there is a spectacular failure by the government will go to the country.

Fred Goodwin put pressure on the bank to buy ABN, yes, because the consequences to the bank would have been very large had HSBC got them. The regulator who's responsibility was to approve the deal missed any problems and allowed it, this is outrageous. Had HSBC purchased ABN, we'd be having the same conversation about their CEO as the same would have happened to them.

Also, remember that RBS has contributed far, far more to the economy that it has lost and required to be bailed out, even if you write off all the money that the bail out cost.

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Stop

interesting

I know of other building societies that use RBS as their clearing bank (family member is an auditor). Due to feck ups over payment speeds (cleared BACS customer money coming "in" was a lot slower although the building society were letting the customers take their money out subject to manual checking - i.e. wages coming in the same day etc) they were racking up overdrafts in excess of millions, that should be an interesting paperwork claim.

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So glad I got rid of these wastes of space over 10 years ago.

Seemed to be a "computer says no" type of place. Didn't fully believe / give me a student account despite me having full paperwork that I was a full time student.

Their £20 base compensation is an insult, and the £100 which you may or may not get from jumping through hoops and having every piece of paperwork of your day to day life can be matched by simply switching accounts to some other banks.

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Anonymous Coward

Nowhere near as simple as it sounds

Our "local" (not geographically, but regular) pub doesn't bank with RBS, but had RBS as their card acquirer. When the RBS outage hit, they lost 2 weeks of card payments - over £5,000 worth. And even when things were "sorted", they had missing transactions, where the customer had been debited, but their account hadn't been credited. (I know, because mine was one of them).

They went bust 2 weeks ago, when the brewery refused to cover their debts to suppliers.

How much do you think they should get ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nowhere near as simple as it sounds

While I think they should get compensation, if a matter of an amount of money less than £5k made them go bankrupt the writing was already on the wall.

Any, yes, I do know about pubs, I'm in the process of doing financial due-diligence for a community buy out at the moment.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nowhere near as simple as it sounds

I agree. But that's the problem RBS will face. Imagine them trying to defend a considerable claim, with a court having to decide if a bankruptcy was due to RBS or not. That is a *lot* of barristers. Specialist barristers. Who won't come cheap.

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Pirate

Take the compensation..

Take the compensation.. and then leave the bastards.

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Anonymous Coward

Personally I think £100 would barely cover expenses for most people who were hit hard..

And that would just be interest/charges caused by lack of funds, the actual effect on peoples lives would probably have a much higher cost!

I know if I spent a day dealing with the fall out the cost I'd charge them would be way over £100, and believe me I would take them to the small claims court for my full contract rates for every single minute spent dealing with their mess.

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Anonymous Coward

...and you would lose.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Remember, under English law, *you* are required to mitigate your losses. Your time is worth nothing. I took a driver who rear-ended me to court, and included the days work I lost, which the judge threw out. Apparently I should have used up my holiday.

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Re: ...and you would lose.

English law doesn't apply. ULSTER Bank. The clue's in the name.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Don't worry

Which as we own RBS is probably the worst thing that can happen.

Fortunately, it's only going to happen in your head.

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