back to article iPhone 5 wait drives record Samsung smartphone sales

Samsung steamed ahead of Apple during Q2 to end the quarter with more than double its rival's share of the Western European smartphone market, in marked contrast to the situation in the US. Figures out from market watcher IDC put Apple on 19 per cent, Samsung on 43.6 per cent, from respectively 21.1 per cent and 22 per cent in …

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Just proves Apple's legal case

...all those people buying Samsung phones 'cos they thought they were iPhones, and that 'samsung' on the front was probably just an Apple model number?

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Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

If I were Tim Cock, I'd ramp the price up of the iPhone 5 to the MAX. Let the Apple Fanbois pay through the nose for their 'brand'. Really ramp it up so that they forgo other things like feeding their kids, their kidneys, etc. just to see how far those freakin' weird Apple devotees will go before they cry "it's price is greater than its value".

I'd like to see that.

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Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

And then turn around and sue them. :)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

There are more than 100M iPhone users. Not all of them can be rabid hipster Apple "fanbois" who look like Justin Long. Most iPhone users are just average people with average incomes and average technical competency, like many of my friends and relatives. They didn't do anything to deserve your anti-iPhone hate. What's going wrong with you or your life that you need to make posts like this?

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Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

Most iPhone users I know stole them in a blood drenched argument

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 18:12GMT - Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

You surely meant average to high income. Where I happen to live right now, the difference in price was significant to make the choice between iPhone and Samsung Galaxy SII an easy one. I admit I wasn't confused at all looking at the two, they are both a fine piece of technology but in the end I had to settle with the one that looked priced reasonably for what it offered.

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Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

What's with the "anti-iPhone" slant, fanbois? I don't have any favourites. Microsofit is the old Apple and Google blows big time on Privacy.

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Pint

Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

What a retarded premise! Its not Apple's iPhone 5 wait leading to good Samsung sales. Its pretty damned good Samsung products leading to good Samsung sales :P

Otherwise, you'd see Motorola and Sony and HTC and RIM all selling great too, no?

Maybe a lot of people are buying Samsung, cause they're annoyed with Apple by now? who knows...

I was already annoyed with my iPhone 3G, having to fight Apple every step of the way to try to do what I want on the phone rather than what Apple wants me to do on it.

The new Note is another good reason why I'm not even 'waiting' for any iPhone, I've always loved Wacom's pressure sensitive tabs... now I get to have one on my phone with a big enough screen to draw stuff anywhere I have an idea.

Pair that with Autodesk Sketch and that double strength battery, why wouldn't Samsung have great sales

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Joke

Re: Just proves Apple's legal case... and...

If Tim does it on a whim, it'll blow up in his face and be Apple's first bone-ef~fied cockup, ehh?

I... Couldn't ... Re...sist...

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FAIL

Nonsense fake numbers...

Twisting numbers as per marketing dept wishes but far from truth.

From these fake stats it would seem like Apple had just a 20% or less market share and so few profits...

Because counting all the ultra cheap Android $50-$150 phones makes sense,really? Those can't even be regarded as smartphones at all. That's just old hardware packaged into cheap phones to make a buck.

The simple fact that Apple has 70-80% of whole market profits should tell everything.

Twisting numbers can't change the fact that Android is a joke (all manufacturers combined can't even get close to 30% of Apple's profits), WindowsPhone7 and upcoming 8 with MetroUI/ModernUI is a huge failure and Nokia since they trashed their good SymbianOS with Qt APis just kept going downhill with Microsoft childish live tiles craziness, then RIM which is toast and has no chance at all to survive.

Add to this the fact that over 90% of those that buy any Android phone don't want to pay even $0.50 for an app..and in fact developers on the platform can't make a buck without some in-app advertising that then obviously make the apps/games an unusable joke and people end up not using those...

While iOS users 90% of them even with jailbreak just buy the cheap apps/games supporting developers and ensuring that the platform can not just survive but keep getting better and bigger.

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Thumb Down

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

You are the ghost of Steve Jobs and I claim my £5

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

Apart from agreeing or not with your comment, the part where you say

"Twisting numbers can't change the fact that Android is a joke (all manufacturers combined can't even get close to 30% of Apple's profits)"

That doesn't prove anything - Mc Donald's profits are much higher than Planet Organic's. Ferrari's profit ( I know very little about cars, so please correct me if I am wrong, I just googled figures ) seem to be lower than Tata's or Fiat's.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

Typical idiotphone user! One sided bollox. Knows fck all.

Too many assumptions being made to be able to take this nonsense seriously.

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

You should relax more.

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Facepalm

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

"The simple fact that Apple has 70-80% of whole market profits should tell everything."

Indeed it does... It tells me how easily money is parted from the brainwashed. They must have seen you coming mate!

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Flame

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

This is rich as apple charge a fortune every year for a minor upgrade at best, and i still argue the iPhone is not a smartphone it still is unable to do some basic features without being Jail broken. Android has far more going for it then Apple iOS which is looking old and outdated.

When your old enough to use a Real Smartphone then you should be aloud to comment on news forums.

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

iJoerg, Android is no joke. I bought an Android G1 followed, a few months later, by an iPhone 3GS. I gave the iPhone a chance, honestly, but more and more it sat in my bag while the pioneering G1 allowed me to do real things well. Come the Motorola Milestone I passed my iPhone on to a sucker at a premium price who has since himself ditched it in favour of an Android phone and tablet. If you want to ask people on Twitter what time X Factor starts then an iPhone is great, if you want to find out for yourself while still enjoying your timeline then get yourself in on the joke.

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Joke

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

I suspect a Topper Hijack attempt

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-09-02/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dilbert%2Fdaily_strip+%28Dilbert+Daily+Strip+-+UU%29

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

Market share and profit are not the same thing. Just because one company might have a higher share of the profit, doesn't mean it must also have high market share - and it's ridiculous to try to twist the numbers to match, when they are different things.

This is an article about sales, not profits. And as a consumer, who cares about profits? The only people who benefit from the profits are the shareholders - and if you are one of those for Apple, you're a shill with a conflict of interest here. Never in the most heated Windows vs Mac/Linux/Amiga/whatever debate did a Windows fan go "But look how much money Bill Gates makes" - no one cares. We do care about sales, as it shows what people like, and how common various platforms are.

I challenge you to give me a definition of "smartphone" that includes the original Iphone (couldn't even run apps), but not the lower end Android phones? (Or indeed, feature phones, come to that - as I say below, the smartphone definition is contrived anyway.) Discounting phones because they are able to be sold at a lower price is not just spin, but nonsensical - it means you punish companies in your reporting, for delivering things at a better price!

On Android, you don't have to pay money as much, because there's so much available for free. As a user, this is better. As a developer, if you aren't able to offer better value than what people are giving away for free, then you need to rethink your business model.

The only thing I agree with you on is that I too like Symbian and Qt.

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Facepalm

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

"When your old enough to use a Real Smartphone then you should be aloud to comment on news forums."

Made my day...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

Then you clearly don't know what a smartphone is. A smartphone is often defined as a phone that you can add software onto to extend its capabilities or create applications for using programming APIs.

But the term is quite hazy at best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

(Smartphone user since 2001).

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

"The simple fact that Apple has 70-80% of whole market profits should tell everything."

One of the reasons I have been long Apple a couple times is the way Apple fans like to boast about how much they are overcharged.

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Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

That used to be a sensible definition, but the problem is it's way out of date - around 2004, most phones had the ability to have software added, but instead they were marketed as "feature" phones. Meanwhile, the original Iphone doesn't fit this definition, yet was marketed as a smartphone. And all the smartphone sales stats, such as the ones in this article, ignore the feature phones (even though these days they also have touchscreens, Wifi, GPS, etc) but include Apple.

Personally I'd be happy to include all feature phones as smartphones, and not include the original Iphone. But if instead we wanted to have a definition that distinguished feature phones from smartphones, I think it should be to do with how open and customisable (like a general computer, as with the older traditional definition) versus locked down they are - feature phones don't have the same ability to replace things like the default keyboard, as smartphones do. As the OP suggests, Apple is again the one that needs to be categorised as a feature phone for this to work.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

As other posters have pointed out, the definition of "smartphone" is so hazy as to be meaningless. Years ago it used to mean that you could get your email on the phone, or look at actual web pages, or put apps on the phone. These days you can do all of that with the cheapest, most basic phones, so any "smartphone" vs. "feature phone" definitions are going to be arbitrary and irrelevant. Why even discuss it unless you have a childish need to be able to call your own phone smart and other peoples' phones dumb?

As for Apple charging a fortune for minor upgrades, that doesn't jibe with reality. First of all, Apple doesn't even offer upgrades. Second, there's a strong market for used iPhones on Craigslist, eBay, etc. so you can usually sell your old iPhone and buy the latest one pretty cheap. But ultimately I would say most average people (who don't root/Jailbreak their phones) don't need to upgrade their iPhones very often anyway, since iOS updates keep the phones pretty current for at least 2-3 years.

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Pint

Re: Nonsense fake numbers...

Cheers Joerg, can't decide if I should upvote you or not for the sheer entertainment factor.

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Anonymous Coward

The idiotphone sells well in the US, SHOCKER!

Say no more.

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Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

Ummm, no. It just proves that Samsung phones sell better than Apples. Probably because they are just better.

That's what happens when you give consumers a choice. Something Apple just does not get as a company. Trying to litigate success in the marketplace seldom works and often has a negative effect.

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Holmes

@ NoneSuch - Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

>. . .

That's what happens when you give consumers a choice.

. . .<

I agree. And that is exactly why Apple is fighting so hard to keep this choice from the consumer.

As I don't like their "almost fascist" attitude either, nothing I buy will have an apple on it.

We can only hope that the market will be saturated before the iPhone5 hits the high street.

But then, as I rate it as a fashion article: has any lady ever stopped buying handbags?

If you can afford an YSL one, you will buy another, however hideous it is.

In this class of people Veblen Goods are important.

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Facepalm

Re: Just proves Apple's legal case

" Ummm, no. It just proves that Samsung phones sell better than Apples. Probably because they are just better."

Psst! Keep this to yourself, but I think the OP might have been kidding.

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Stop

Hmmm

"iPhone 5 wait drives record Samsung smartphone sales"

Or could it just be that Samsung have a better product hmm?

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JDX
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When ARE we due the iP5?

I don't want one, but I have Apple shares :)

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Anonymous Coward

@ Joerg

"The simple fact that Apple has 70-80% of whole market profits should tell everything."

Apple has a majority share in the USA only (barely, and it is eroding daily). Elsewhere in the world, it is barely over single digit's in most markets.

I don't care if you use Apple devices. I do care that you abuse facts to substantiate your case.

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Paris Hilton

@ AC 1313h - Re: @ Joerg

Have you considered that Joerg might be an American who hasn't heard of the "USA != world" thing?

That'd excuse him somewhat . . .

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The simple fact that Apple has 70-80% of whole market profits should tell everything.

@Joerg

Yes it tells me that Apple are a monopoly on their OS and so can stiff those who want an iOS device and rip them off profit wise.

It also tells me that compotition in Android devices means that the profit margins are lower so we as consumers are getting a better deal for out money.

As to MS & Rim boy dream on MS have a powerful chance of success purely on enterprise wil IT departements likeing the idea of phone, tablet, laptop & desktop having a unified system to support.

Rim also are not dead yet, they are growing in some new markets and once BBX finally arrives with new phones etc could become the new cool for the younger market as BBM is perfect for them and the new OS is so slick it makes iOS look even more like a Vtech learning UI.

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@ Big_Ted - Re: The simple fact . . .

> . . .

Vtech learning UI

. . .<

Love it! Bruahahaha!

You're the smilemaker of the day.

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Boffin

"But colossal growth is easy when you come from next to nothing - retaining it and building a big user base is something else altogether. "

I do hope you're referring to Windows Mobile's growth numbers rather than Android's. After all, Android has had a big user base for quite some time now (unsurprising considering it ticked the price *and* quality boxes).

As for the growth figures of Windows Mobile, see this obligatory XKCD.

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Gold badge

More proof, there's an xkcd for everything...

However, those Win Phone sales aren't bad. Assuming all the Nokia smartphone sales are Lumias, and some of them aren't still Symbian (all listed as feature phones): That would mean that Lumia alone had captured about 8% of European smartphone sales last quarter. Add in the odd Samsung and HTC, and that's none too shabby for a phone OS that many people keep wanting to insist is dead. It would also give a bit of hope to Nokia, I think it would be a shame if Nokia went pop, so I welcome that.

There's a couple of big caveats there. Some of those sales should be Symbian. And they're European figures. The Nokia 900 supposedly had a great start to US sales, but then seems to have tailed off. Finally, Nokia may have had to do a lot of discounting to earn its sales. You can get Lumia 710s for under £100 unlocked at Carphone Warehouse. Buying market share might be a reasonable strategy given Nokia and Microsoft's predicament, but it's also expensive.

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I believe the worldwide Q2 sales for Nokia were roughly 6m Symbian, 4m WP (sites like All About Symbian have stories with links to the stats). I don't know how that relates to the European market, but yes, a surprising amount of their smartphone figures are still coming from Symbian.

Not that there isn't hope for WP - the sales have been increasing significantly since Nokia's support. The question is whether that will tail off, or grow with WP8...

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Facepalm

Although i'm not a huge fan of fandroids/androids...

I must admit, this articles smells of poo IMHO. Whether the iPhone 5 got released a month ago, gets released now or in 2 weeks time; wouldn't necessarily make any difference to the sales figures of Samsung's smartphones. There maybe the odd few that may of decided to not bother waiting (maybe a guessimate of around 5 - 15% max?).

Most people buy whatever phone is out at the time. Only the minority people waiting for the iP5 because of a contract renewal or just simply waiting because they want the new one won't make them impulse to a Samsung phone.

@Big_Ted - "It also tells me that compotition in Android devices means that the profit margins are lower so we as consumers are getting a better deal for out money."

Ummmmm.... maybe there's better competition at the lower end because Nokia are almost dead and WinMo/RIM are out there in the distance somewhere. But equivalent like-for-like Android phones with the same/similar features as the iPhone are not neccessarily cheaper. A SIII is only £20 cheaper SIM-Free to the iPhone 4S 16GB. Pay monthly, it's the same to buy it outright almost with a slightly higher monthly cost (around £5). The unfortunate thing is that we only have a 2 horse race for smartphones currently and that really doesnt push any costs down to what you think maybe a better deal for only a few pounds cheaper.

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Re: Although i'm not a huge fan of fandroids/androids...

Comparing like for like pop along to Amazon and you have a 16Gb Galaxy Nexus at £295 or a 16Gb iPhone 4S at £495. Could be a clearing of the decks prior to a Galaxy Nexus 4G (i.e. one advertised as 4G that actually works with the 4G available in the country in which it is sold) but either way 40% cheaper is one hell of a difference.

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Re: Although i'm not a huge fan of fandroids/androids...

It's entirely possible for the iPhone to have zero effect on Android sales. i.e. people have made their choice of OS and never move. And therefore a delayed iPhone wouldn't change Samsung's sales numbers. However, it could have a large effect on market share.

This could be true if the smartphone market has grown slower in the last quarter, as people who want the new iPhone hold off on their purchase. Then you get a rush of sales, pushing the size of the overall market up. That would make Samsung's market share artificially high now, but knock it back on an overall annual basis later.

We'll know more after next quarter. It's possible for all OSes sales to grow, and yet some decline relatively, as was happening to Symbian up to a couple of years ago, when it started to fall off a cliff.

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Re: Although i'm not a huge fan of fandroids/androids...

@the-it-slayer

I must admit, this articles smells of poo IMHO

The key word in the article is "shipment". That does not equal sales. I have no idea where all Nokia's phones are in Western Europe but they are certainly not really filling the shelves here in Germany.

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what i cannot understand...

...is why some people who favour one device, seem to almost to resent the fact there are alternative products.

Do they not realise that without vibrant and viable competition, their own favoured platform will simple stagnate, like Internet Explorer did in the early 2000s until Firefox and Chrome broke open the market?

Apple certainly does not benefit from Samsung's amazing success, but Apple users do, just as Microsoft IE users benefited from Firefox and Chrome.

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Re: what i cannot understand...

Maybe they're hacked off that they're still locked into contracts and jealous they can't upgrade to the S3. I stuck by HTC on my last upgrade and while they've been pretty good to me, watching my mucker on his lighter, thinner, larger screened S3 does make me envious...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: what i cannot understand...

Not to disagree with your point but I see it claimed often that Android has advanced iOS. I'm curious to know what features or design cues you think are in iOS because Apple was feeling competitive pressure from Android? Because I can't think of a single one. Maybe the current notification UI but I'd have to check the dates on that--it came from an old Jailbreak project called MobileNotifier.

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Joke

Re: what i cannot understand...(@AC 4th September 2012 18:32 GMT )

"I'm curious to know what features or design cues you think are in iOS because Apple was feeling competitive pressure from Android?"

Apple used a different approach to the competitive pressure issue.

They sued the fuck out of the biggest android smartphone maker, that's what they did!

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Confused

I know quite a few people with iPhones, I don't know one who is waiting for the 5. Everyone I know who has a new phone has a droid one.

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Re: Confused

I know one, he even agreed that WinPho was superior to iOS yet is waiting for iP5 because it is Apple. A fool and his money.

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I have absolutely no doubt though that next month or whenever the iPhone 5 is released these sales figures will be very much different. I am actually holding off upgrading My S2 until its released so I can decide if it is actually worth spending the extra on the iPhone. TBH I am also interested to see what MS brings.too!

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They all caught the bus !

Why wait for something that will copy much of the older Galaxy S2 ?

History waits for man nor Apple.

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