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back to article Pirate Bay founder arrested in Cambodia

Pirate Bay co-founder Gottfrid Svartholm Warg, has been tracked down and arrested in Cambodia. Warg is believed to have been living in Cambodia since charges were laid against the founders of the Pirate Bay over copyright infringement in 2009. Sweden has no extradition treaty with Cambodia. Warg’s former lawyer Ola Salomonsson …

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Sheesh

He skipped on a crime with only a one year sentence, and they don't even have an extradition treaty with Sweden, yet Cambodia arrested him. Wow!

I had thought that I would not see a unified World in my life time, but it seems that the desire to preserve profit has achieved the unthinkable.

Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, to be honest.

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Anonymous Coward

Someone else

Is pulling the strings on this, I wonder who is behind this and whats on offer as a bribe?

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Anonymous Coward

A year

In a Swedish open prison, 60% of that as time off with good behaviour, can work during the week but must spend weekends locked up.

Bit like a British boarding school with better food and without pe*do***e teachers. Not a bad option.

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Stop

Re: Sheesh

Or maybe he just broke one of their laws...

Stranger things have happened.

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Re: Sheesh

It's not rocket science. The RIAA and/or MPAA asked the Justice (sic) Department to issue a warrant for his arrest and the americans leaned on the Cambodians. Everything's for sale there, didn't you know? They have the best justice money can buy and the trade associations are big lobbyists.

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Re: Sheesh

And your proof is?

ahhh you heard in on a forum so it must be true...maybe, just maybe, as someone pointed out, he broke the law in Columbia or (more likely) forgot to grease the palms of the correct people?

Still I'm going to be buying tin hats on eBay later, yours for £199.00 or two for £450

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FAIL

@bogwart

[citation needed]

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@Anomalous Cowturd&AC07:27 - Re: Sheesh

I don't know about you two, but I don't just go by the article, I check elsewhere, eg the following from the BBC site:

"'His arrest was made at the request of the Swedish government for a crime related to information technology,' Cambodia's police spokesman Kirth Chantharith told the AFP news agency."

You don't need to be a conspiracy nut (or, in this case, a pirate - which I ain't) to notice something odd about the way Governments and police forces around the world are behaving.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @Anomalous Cowturd&AC07:27 - Sheesh

"You don't need to be a conspiracy nut (or, in this case, a pirate - which I ain't) to notice something odd about the way Governments and police forces around the world are behaving."

Yes, damn those governments for wanting to extradite their convicted criminals who are fleeing justice. Agree with the law, or don't, but you can't criticize a government for wanting to have people face justice, rather than flee if they don't agree with the law they were convicted under.

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Re: Someone else

Having spent some time in Cambodia, there is pretty much no way on earth that he would have been stumbled upon. Same for yer man in Laos. There are just so many places to hide and live out your life.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sheesh

"he broke the law in Columbia"

Columbia? how did he get there? This was before Cambodia? or he escaped and went there and broke some law there?

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Linux

Re: Sheesh

"And your proof is?

ahhh you heard in on a forum so it must be true...maybe, just maybe, as someone pointed out, he broke the law in Columbia or (more likely) forgot to grease the palms of the correct people?

Still I'm going to be buying tin hats on eBay later, yours for £199.00 or two for £450"

Actually Cambodia and America have strong Policing ties. The Americans have been pushing for Global Jurisdiction for years and Cambodia is one of the Countries benefiting from having US law enforcement resources operating in their territory. Primarily, these ties are used to snare American sex offenders living in Cambodia. I guess some people are basing their conspiracies on this.

I suspect that the International arrest warrant was the real reason for the arrest, as I believe most civilised Countries actually enforce and comply with international arrest warrants.

What's Columbia got to do with anything?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A year

"Bit like a British boarding school with better food and without pe*do***e teachers. Not a bad option."

Did you just ineptly censor (and misspell) "paedophile"? Seriously?

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What's Columbia got to do with anything?

Its near Ecuador isn't it? Same continent anyway, well, more or less... Anyway isn't Columbia where the White House is?

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Paris Hilton

Re: What's Columbia got to do with anything?

Indeed, Columbia (as in Columbus, obv) being a poetic name for the USA, as Albion is for the UK.

The bootylicious Shakira (sorry, Paris will have to do) and the famous marching powder come from Colombia.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Someone else

Only for so long though. All the locals know where the farang lives and it only takes one suitably motivated local politico or police chief to rat you out (cf. Gadd). Thailand or Malaysia would be a better bet (or hopping between the two) as another Westerner doesn't really stand out at all.

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Anonymous Coward

This world is fucked up....

....sigh.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This world is fucked up....

Exactly!

All of the Pirate Bay Boys should be in the slammer for 10+ years in addition to there increased fines - which should be inescapable even if they do not have the funds. Just add on more years in prison for any shortfall in funds.

These convicted criminals had two court trials and lost both of them so it should be pretty clear that society and the judicial system is not going to tolerate piracy or facilitation of piracy by anyone.

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WTF?

I'm honestly puzzled why he skipped... It's a first world minimal security jail, not exactly a third world hell hole (or an American prison... not sure which is worse).

Sure jail sucks, but living your life on the run has to suck even more.

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Anonymous Coward

Not sure myself,

I know I'd take extreme measures to avoid jail time in the USA, but not in the EU, in the EU I'd probably accept the punishment for the crime committed, but with the risk of jail time in the USA, I'd run like hell and damn anyone who got in my way!

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@tkioz

Who says he skipped because of the jailtime? I think its most likely that he skipped because of the fine of millions of dollars.

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Anonymous Coward

"I'm honestly puzzled why he skipped"

I cannot speak for anyone else, and I'm not even sure I had heard of this Warg (is that really his name?) gentleman before.

Having said that, I believe some laws, and the existence of some "crimes", to be of questionable morality (not that a legislator would ever be tempted to act in the interests of a powerful minority for personal gain or favours), and thus I think if I were to find myself in such a situation I would be inclined to put principle ahead of pragmatism. Not saying this is what this man did, mind you.

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Facepalm

All in a name.

They should have called their webshite 'not our stuff.com'. I'm sure the 'piratebay' sounded like a good idea at the time.

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Re: All in a name.

Not sure that calling the site "LegitimateLinks" or similar would have made much difference in this case, else all Swedish criminal organisations would go through a hasty rebranding exercise.

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Re: All in a name.

They should've called the site "Google".... but seriously, if the site was called something like "AllTheTorrentsInTheWorld" then it's possible to claim that they were just indexing torrents and the fact that there were torrents to copyrighted material wasn't their fault; they just indexed everything after all.

However, with a site called "ThePirateBay" it strongly suggests that the original intent was to set up a site which promoted the smuggling of illicit material, with a old pirate ship for a logo, just to make sure you're not in any doubt as to the purpose of the site.

Mind you, whether or not the judicial system takes that intent into account is another matter....

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Megaphone

Re: All in a name.

And let's face it, they did laugh in the face of copyright owners sending them letters asking for copyright material to be taken down, laughed and made fun of letters from lawyers threatening them with court action and thought themselves above the law. Glad he has been arrested and think the jail term should now include extra time for being a dickhead!

I know this will get downvoted because most readers of this forum are freeturd supporters anyway!

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Re: All in a name.

"Not sure that calling the site "LegitimateLinks" or similar would have made much difference in this case, else all Swedish criminal organisations would go through a hasty rebranding exercise."

Hey: It works for the military:

Soldiers = Warfighters

Napalm = Non-target-specific incendiaries

Visual FOF identification system = stuff painted on the side of a tank

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Swedish laws are weird -- a court can decide that you cannot appeal against it?

A court can decide that the presumed guilty cannot appeal against its decision? What arrogance!

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Re: Swedish laws are weird -- a court can decide that you cannot appeal against it?

Other countries do it all the time. It's called "deciding not to hear the appeal".

The U.S Supreme Court hears what? 80-100 a year? You think there aren't thousands that want their case heard?

It's the same everywhere.

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Meh

Re: Swedish laws are weird -- a court can decide that you cannot appeal against it?

There has to be grounds for appeal.

"I don't agree, your honour" isn't usually good enough.

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Even with

Irrefutable evidence US courts tend not to allow appeals, usually because it might make the Sherriff look bad.

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Stop

Re: Swedish laws are weird -- a court can decide that you cannot appeal against it?

"A court can decide that the presumed guilty cannot appeal against its decision? What arrogance!"

Erm. No.

Sometimes there is no legal basis for appeal. In that case, it's just a waste of the court's time and taxpayer money. If you get caught red-handed with fifty four witnesses (half of whom are nuns), then what's the point allowing you to appeal if you just don't like the court's decision. There has to be viable legal basis.

The problem with our justice system at the moment is essentially that it's clogged with professional criminals who drag out proceedings, and people with expensive lawyers who drag out proceedings. The result is a court system that's choked and overworked by wankers.

You really want every appeal to be heard, and for the scrote you watched put a brick through a car window to be allowed to spend four years appealing to the Lords? That's what would happen if you allowed unlimited access to appeal. And all you'd have to do is not turn up ONCE as a witness in any of the dozens of hearings for them to get a walk-out.

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Re: Swedish laws are weird -- a court can decide that you cannot appeal against it?

UK courts have the right to decide if an appeal will be allowed. They can decide that at the time the judgement against the defendant is made. If the court doesn't make a decision on this either way, then the defendant has to request permission to appeal, in which case (in civil courts and I imagine the same process applies in criminal courts), the opinions of the judge in the lower court are taken into consideration by the appeal court making the decision whether or not to grant an appeal.

I've been involved in trying to overturn a biased judge's opinion that an appeal should not be granted. It's difficult but can be done.

Once the decision to allow an appeal has been granted by the appeal court, then the appeal needs to be prepared by the defendant and submitted to the appeal court. Then the court hears that appeal.

It's standard practice in UK courts. It's actually clearly laid down in the rules as to what can and can't be be done.

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Pirate

(Not) Lost inside Cambodia

What's Cambodia like these days? Pol Pot may have "moved on", but after the Khmer Rouge days the place still doesn't appeal to me as a holiday destination/ex-pirate refuge.

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Go

Re: (Not) Lost inside Cambodia

It's like Thailand, but with less tourists clogging the streets and pushing the prices up. And your money goes a long way.

Try it sometime. Lebanon is nice, too.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: (Not) Lost inside Cambodia

You might be surprised. Cambodia is a wonderful place to visit if you do so at the right time of year and with the right frame of mind. Accommodation prices are great, you can rough it in reasonable comfort for as little as $2USD/night if you choose to.

If you avoid the backpacker and western tourist/sexpat circuits (Phnom Phen, Victory Hill/Sihanoukville as much as possible it's still a pretty wild and wonderful place, with some really nice people. Prices are unbelievably cheap by western standards, but 'tourist taxes' are prevalent, but only equate to a few USD.

With the discovery of oil reserves off the coast, the economy (what there is of one anyway) and the country might start to change considerably in the years to come. I''d say the time to visit is soon, before the oil changes things.

I did read an amusing article (link below), which was intended to address the questions of a first time US traveller (only posted link due to the 'Septic Tank' handle you use :)

http://www.khmer440.com/k/2011/07/should-american-first-time-travelers-visit-cambodia/

Cambodia gets a lot of bad press, which quite frankly it doesn't generally deserve. Stay clear of happy pizza, drugs and sex tourism and it's a fantastic place to go.

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Pirate

Legal farce

The Pirate Bay started as a political statement from The Pirate Party and it remains so. It never hosted anything illegal, nor did it produce anything illegal. It was and still is merely a politically motivated file sharing search engine and portal.

Pressure from US rights holders (MPAA/RIAA) resulted in an illegal raid (based on an illegally issued search warrant which also failed to name the law violated in the case (because there was none), and which was abused to seize hundreds of servers completely unrelated to TPB) and a law that retroactively made TPB illegal while restricting free speech and introducing censorship.

Sweden was obviously turning into a undemocratic police state, which is why Julian Assange is so afraid to be extradited there. No wonder the founders fled to the other end of the world.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Legal farce

For a long time they hosted the torrent trackers, the bit of serving which made the torrent work. If they hadn't done this they would probably have got away with it, as they did they were actively serving other peoples' copyright material for their own monetry gain (advertising revenue) at which point this becomes a criminal rather than civil offense. As I recall the Pirate Party came a long time after the Pirate Bay when they tried to start dressing up what they were doing as a political act.

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Re: Legal farce

Have to agree with the AC here; TPB has been around for quite a while here, and I'm pretty sure the pirate party stuff is a relatively recent thing.

There are legitimate uses for torrents and torrent tracker sites. But let's not ignore the elephant in the room here, shall we: how many people *honestly* turn to TPB as their first port of call (pun intended, yarr) for a Linux distro or some other large file?

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Re: Legal farce

"as they did they were actively serving other peoples' copyright material for their own monetry gain (advertising revenue"

And this is were their 'freedom fighter' defence falls down, the same as the guys at megaupload. You can't claim the moral high ground of fighting the profiteering movie and music industry while making a decent wedge out of it, unlike the tv-links guy who made nothing from his site and merely provided links to other sites which hosted movies.

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Anonymous Coward

@Xenobyte

When I steal your car, it's also a Political Statement.

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@AC

Don't tell me you beleive that rubbish? Downloading a Film is NOT like stealing a car, its a bad analogy..

It's more like me taking a photo of a painting in a shop then printing it out on my own printer to hang on the wall rather than buying it.

Although a probably even better analogy is I go into a shop and see a painting I like, I wan't to buy it, but the shop assistant tells me 'no sir, you must come and pay us each time to look at it for the next 3 months, and then you can buy it', instead I take a photo and hang a printout in my lounge. Sale lost because I can't buy it....

No crime is being committed, it is Copyright Violation, but only a civil matter, they can sue me for damages, but since there are no damages caused (no lost sale since purchase was impossible), they would have a hard time in the courts getting anything even after I admitted the civil offence.

Now if I took photos and SOLD prints, then it would risk becoming a criminal matter...

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Stop

Re: Legal farce

The Pirate Bay started in 2003. Piratpartiet was founded in 2006. [sources: their respective web sites]

"a law that retroactively made TPB illegal while restricting free speech and introducing censorship." A law introducing any of those concepts (retroactive law or restricting free speech) would only be passed in Sweden after Satan starts driving a snow plow to work. At least one if not both would be the equivalent of unconstitutional and all practicing lawyers would oppose it on principle.

As for Mr Assange, he initially wanted to set up his base of operations in Sweden due to the strong principles of free speech and freedom of information there, but apparently changed his mind when (alleged) "freedom from condom" was not.

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Re: @AC

They don't have DVDs or Blu-Rays where you're from? Last time I checked, I didn't have to pay every time I wanted to watch a DVD. Your analogy falls down when you consider the fact that digital distribution is not the *only* way to consume content.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @blcollier

Err no, the analogy is sound, its an analogy against downloading a movie. Pointing out that downloading is nothing like stealing a car, or even stealing a DVD/Blu-Ray.

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Pirate

Re: @AC

"No crime is being committed, it is Copyright Violation, but only a civil matter"

Copyright Violation has been a crime in the UK since 1989 (the Copyright, Deigns and Patents Act 1988) and in the USA since about 2000 (the DMCA).

I wonder what's the Swedish or Cambodian for "shiver me timbers, Jim lad".

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Facepalm

Re: Legal farce

"Sweden was obviously turning into a undemocratic police state"

Obviously?

Have you been there? Or are you basing your entire view of a country on what the media reported about two court cases?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Legal farce

"a law that retroactively made TPB illegal"

Traditionally, you can't be done for something that's just been made illegal.

But you can get nicked if you carry on doing it, and I believe that might have been the issue.

ie: I shoplift. A law comes in making it illegal. I carry on and get arrested and am charged for offences committed since the law came in. That's perfectly legit.

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Re: @blcollier

Agreed, but I think you missed my point entirely.

Pirating content which can be purchased on a some form of disc *is* a lost sale; if I go download a bluray-rip of, say, The Dark Knight Rises, what reason would I have to go out and purchase it? If the quality of the video is comparable to the original, why would I need a retail version? (Unless I'm some sort of obsessive fan, in which case I probably wouldn't have even thought about a pirate copy and would have pre-ordered the triple-disc version oozing with extra content.)

Someone else has already pointed out the fact that copyright already is, and has been for a long while, a crime. I'll agree with you all you like about crappy licensing terms, DRM restrictions, availability, etc, but there's no getting away from the fact that: if you fail to pay for something that normally involves monetary exchange, how is *not* a crime?

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Pirate

Re: @AC

@Robert Baker

Well, in Swedish is could be "för fasen, jimpojken".

No idea in Khmer, or Cambodian as you call it.

There, that's moved the discussion on no end.

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