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back to article Visual Studio 2012: 50 Shades of Grey by Microsoft

Microsoft offended thousands in April with a preview of its next Visual Studio, a John-Major-inspired, grey affair intended to take Microsoft’s all-encompassing IDE closer to the look of Windows 8. Thousands gave the new look a thumbs-down on the Microsoft UserVoice poll, with people demanding a return to colour. The day of …

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Anonymous Coward

So much like windows 8, the under laying program has been improved, but the new magical UI is shit.

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Anonymous Coward

"the under laying program has been improved, but the new magical UI is shit"

Generally decent code, shite UI. Hmmmmm, sounds like most open source projects out there!

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Because all developers are equal

"It also seems odd that Microsoft puts so much energy into IDE design rather than, for example, implementing more of C++11 in Visual C++." - yes, because I want someone who's good at IDE design to be implementing complex, close to the metal C++ features.

Not all developers (or designers, etc) are good at the same range of tasks.

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Anonymous Coward

I think you missed the point. The author didn't say that the same person should be used. They were stating that Microsoft may have wanted to shove a few more dollars /resources in that direction.

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So, from the title...

...should we assume it's pr0n or badly written?

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Re: So, from the title...

It keeps violently f*cking you, but you keep going back for more.

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Bronze badge

Re: So, from the title...

The two are not mutually exclusive.

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Re: So, from the title...

I would presume it's metaphor for the latest Clampdown nee neo-Feudalism. Metaphorized droit de seigneur, all your copyrights are belong us, mortgages for all for ever, perpetual war on the people, corporatism without end. You didn't think M$ wouldn't be at it too?

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Re: So, from the title...

badly written pr0n mayhaps ?

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Coat

John Major... Microsoft’s all-encompassing IDE loser

I've heard him called a lot of things, but...

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I wish Microsoft would make its mind up...

C++ was so much of an afterthought in VS2010 that they shipped it without C++ Intellisense support. Now it's suddenly front and cetnre.

Setup and Deployment projects declared dead in VS2012- presumably in favour of building for the App Store.

It would be nice for once to be able to install a new version of Visual Studio and have it actually provide the same level of support for an existing code base as the previous version.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wish Microsoft would make its mind up...

I wouldn't put too much stock in this article.

This is another Reg Hack 'review' designed to capture forum posts for advert revenue (oops, it worked, silly me!). The Register is going the way of Tech Republic and CNet - got to keep the flame wars going to sell 'views' to advertisers.

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Re: I wish Microsoft would make its mind up...

C++ isn't front and centre. Microsoft's component extensions to C++ are front and centre. C++/CX is a bunch of extensions heavily influenced by .NET (references, delegates, autoboxing, partial classes etc.) which allow to C++ to access the Windows Runtime framework. The vanilla C++ language, following its own loose interpretation of C++ standards is just along for the ride.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I wish Microsoft would make its mind up...

If anyone thinks that Microsoft are deprecating .Net in favour of going back to C++, they need their head examined.

I mean, seriously...

There are no templates for a Web, SOA or cloud Project in C++, no MVC, no Web API, no WCF, no Azure. None at all. Nada .

No C++ support for SharePoint, Office, or Workflow projects.

Not even support for C++ in Lightswitch projects.

The deprecation of setup projects tells you the focus is on web, cloud and store. C++ isn't front and center, it's standing at the back of the queue waving 'I am still here' at passers by.

This is one of the worst Register "articles"' in a long time.

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Hey Microsoft, Windows 2.0 called...

it wants it's user interface back!

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Re: Hey Microsoft, Windows 2.0 called...

I'll show my age by pointing out that Win2.0 came out when I was a student, and I distinctly remember it supporting a fixed palette containing a maximum of eight colours, none of which were grey.

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Anonymous Coward

Must be something which is going around on the West Coast.

OSX similarly lost all its colorful icons in the Finder sidebar and in some system applications with the 10.7 Lion release. Looks like the grayness illustrated in the article.

A free app is available to restore them (SideEffects), but not through the App Store.

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Childcatcher

Re: Must be something which is going around on the West Coast.

Colour is SO 2011. I guess that only leaves contrast.

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Re: Must be something which is going around on the West Coast.

> " I guess that only leaves contrast"

Steady on, don't give them ideas!

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Re: Hey Microsoft, Windows 2.0 called...

Windows 2.0 style and only requires a monochrome monitor.

Are they putting any CRT control features back into the code?

Maybe they are planning their own version of a Kindle and want their UI to look the same on everything.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Must be something which is going around on the West Coast.

Grey... it's the new black.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Must be something which is going around on the West Coast.

reminds me of many a 3D design program - they seem to be in two colours save arrows for the axes.

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Coat

@ Steve; Re: Hey Microsoft, Windows 2.0 called...

They say that anyone who claims to remember the '70s didn't live through it. Win2.0 was the '80s, so I don't know what your excuse is...Win2.0's palette had 16 colors, including 2 shades of grey plus black and white

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It looks like Steam

Not a serious tool

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JDX
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Re: It looks like Steam

Maybe leave that decision for the serious developers.

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Windows

Re: It looks like Steam

I was just making an observation dude.

It does, in fact, look like Steam.

So anyway, how's that Microsoft job going for you JDX?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It looks like Steam

I disagree, you are a serious tool. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

:)

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FAIL

Re: It looks like Steam

Oh dear, an anonymous twunt called me a tool. I am devastated. Utterly devastated.

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Pirate

I just hope

They release the express version with support for normal desktop aps eventually. Because honestly I have no intention of installing windows 8, and I have no intention of buying VS2012 just to develop normal applications.

I'd sooner set sail on the 7 seas.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I just hope

didnt they say that would be in the final version? is it not there?

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Anonymous Coward

I don't see the major issue with the UI. I find the dark theme easier on the eyes and I used the registry tweak to stop the menu being all upper case. If I wasn't able to do those things I wouldn't feel the need to complain about it. It has a place for writing code, debugger integration and a solution/project explorer. Sure I would have liked to see more C++ love but I don't see the fuss about the UI. It's better than most other offerings.

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FAIL

Grey icons traditionally indicate disabled or unavailable options.

I'm pretty sure that's actually specifically stated in a previous version of a Windows GUI style guide.

So clearly the GUI screenshots are intended to convey that every single feature has been disabled and is unavailable.

I'll stick with a version that actually works, thanks.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Grey icons traditionally indicate disabled or unavailable options.

Firstly, to be blunt, you may wish to spend less time worrying about the colour of buttons and more on the performance of the features relating to the actual development. Judging a development environment by button colour is quite astonishing and makes one wonder how much time you spend looking at code. The only excuse I can see for this is if it's a language that puts a lot of emphasis on features that involve vast amounts of messing in the UI such as Visual Basic .Net or C# UI design.

Secondly, a previous style guide should dictate how new versions of products operate? Next I'm sure people will be telling Microsoft off for not innovating enough and being behind the times.

God knows how we got past the extended ASCII code designed IDE phase of software development.

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WTF?

Re: Grey icons traditionally indicate disabled or unavailable options.

"Judging a development environment by button colour is quite astonishing". Yes, I judge it by its color because that IS productivity to me.

A mistake I believe you are making is that unless you are a really junior developer you've a lot more to do than learn a new UI just because Microsoft's design idiots need to justify their salary. Maybe it's me but I can't use key combinations and function keys because they vary so much across the IDEs (yes, more than one) such as Eclipse. The number of times I've sworn at myself for pressing F5 (run/continue in VS but run new debug instance in Eclipse while F8 is continue in Eclipse or when debugging JavaScript in Firebug) is depressing. So for me it's more like maze running. I remember *where* stuff is greatly helped by the color and shape of the icons. Since the icons are all now gray, a cornerstone of my navigation has gone. For that reason alone I will not be upgrading. Just can't afford the time. And for these reasons I take real exception to your narrow minded comment.

I don't get why Microsoft is removing choice. Why does Microsoft care whether I prefer color or monochrome? Why do they insist every menu should shout at me? Wasn't it the purpose of technologies like Xaml and Html to make theming easier? Why not let me apply the theme I prefer? Choice, it seems, is a lost world.

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Anonymous Coward

Please Devs

I know this isn't the correct place for this post, but please forgive me.

When you devs write new apps for win 8 - please, please, please try to remember there are a lot of people who use netbooks - who only have a limited screen resolution height.

Windows 8 preview works quite well on a netbook - but pretty-much none of the metro apps will work unless I plug-in a second screen. Looking at the apps I see no reason whatsoever (ie lots of wasted space on screen) to limit them in this way.

Hopefully it's not Microsoft mandated, and even Win8 itself will one day run on netbooks properly.

Pretty please?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Please Devs

You should have bought a computer.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Please Devs

"You should have bought a computer."

I'm sorry - I didn't know I had to buy a huge suitcase, with enough room for a desktop machine, it's monitor CRT or LCD, and all the accompanying cables, Mains extension lead etc. before I could run Win 8.

Idiot.

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13 years, still waiting

Does it support C99?

I have no interest in C++11, but I have to maintain an awful lot of C89 code simply because Visual C is the *only* modern compiler not to support C99. I'd really like to upgrade.

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Coat

Re: 13 years, still waiting

Given this, I'd expect proper C++11 support in, what...2025?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 13 years, still waiting

Interestingly VC++ 8.0 was, at the time, the most C++ compliant mainstream compiler. Yes, Comeau has the title for the most compliant compiler, but it wasn't mainstream. Whilst I'm really looking forward to a lot of the features of C++11, I actually don't mind the support of it taking a bit of time coming in. I wouldn't be surprised if VC++ was fully C++11 compliant by the next release. It is certainly a better situation than with gcc where they happily add all the new features, but they keep generating serious compiler bugs as a result.

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Coat

Re: Flat UI makes this painful to look at.

A thousand times: this.

The UI designers forgot that depth and color provide additional information that we, as developers, rely on.

As others have pointed out, we have been trained for YEARS that flat grey means: doesn't work. So whoever thought that going flat and grey throughout the entire UI is without a doubt a complete moron.

*looking for the missing color in my pocket.

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Thumb Up

Opening Sentence

"Microsoft’s all-encompassing IDE loser"

Typo or fact? I'm inclined to go with the latter.

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Re: Opening Sentence

It's meant to be "closer".

Tim

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Anonymous Coward

Re: .NET Fail

"your CV is full of legacy skills and experience"

And you post is full of self-serving smugness, self-indulgent opinion and rampant ego. Thank god I don't have to work with the likes of you too often.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: .NET Fail

If Mono didn't exist, you might have a point. But it does - it's very successful and powers a lot of stuff.

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Mushroom

Re: .NET Fail

Java would be a terrible choice. Java is already becoming increasingly irrelevant, just like Flash. This is the way of the world, not a Microsoft fad. Platforms and best of breed develeopment languages change over time. At least if you chose the Microsoft route, every thing you did still plugs into the Common Language Infrastructure.

Using C++ versus a high level language is like cutting your lawn with a table knife. It will get the job done eventually, but its likely not the best tool for the job....

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Trollface

Re: .NET Fail

Mono? Yeah, share your name with a disease...

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Re: .NET Fail

Cutting your lawn with C++ is like cutting your lawn with a cluster bomb rather than using the my-little-pony lawn cutting applet.

Note only works on lawns sown with my-little-pony grass, may have to upgrade the lawn to grass 2.0, grass is only available in pink, only heart shaped lawns are supported.

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