back to article Samsung fights to stay on US shelves as Apple calls for ban

Now that the jury in the landmark Apple-Samsung patent trial has returned a $1bn verdict in Apple's favor, the next step will be to decide just which of Samsung's mobile phones will be permitted to be sold in the US. Judge Lucy Koh has set a hearing on September 20 to discuss Apple's request to bar sales of Samsung products, …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Anonymous Coward

The Verge just listed the models Apple is aiming for

Galaxy S 4G

Galaxy S2 (AT&T)

Galaxy S2 (Skyrocket)

Galaxy S2 (T-Mobile)

Galaxy S2 Epic 4G

Galaxy S Showcase

Droid Charge

Galaxy Prevail

Seems a lot of old stuff.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: The Verge just listed the models Apple is aiming for

The case started a long time ago.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: The Verge just listed the models Apple is aiming for

S3 appears exempt, huge sigh of relief I think!

4
0
Silver badge
Meh

I'd like

The choices we may have in 2112

A new phone please.....

A new microwave....

A new computer.....

A new fridge.......

A new cooker.....

A new watch........

A new toaster.......

'certainly sir we stock all these Apple products'

'any other brands?'

'not since the great patent wars of the early 2000's

'nothing but Apple?'

'once you've made your purchase why not celebrate in the pub next door, a meal in the Dog and Apple, I hear the real ales, brewed locally in the Apple brewery is quite nice!'

43
3

Re: The Verge just listed the models Apple is aiming for

originally all samsung phones were on the filing but the judge said no there was to many on there and apple had to slim down the list.

0
0
Silver badge

S3 not exempt

It likely doesn't violate the trade dress patents, but it would still violate the UI patents like the bounceback. I'm not sure how Apple would go about asking for it to be banned since it wasn't a subject of this trial. If it requires a whole new trial, Samsung can release new versions faster than Apple can win lawsuits, so even if they end up having to pay damages there wouldn't ever be any bans on current products.

Of course, if it ever gets to that point both sides would probably realize it is easier to just come to some sort of licensing deal similar to what Samsung and the other Android makers already has with Microsoft.

Or they could modify TouchWiz so it doesn't hit the Apple patents in the trial, since AFAIK none of the patents at issue in this particular trial involved Android itself, but rather Samsung's TouchWiz layer on top of Android.

3
2
Silver badge
Unhappy

Re: I'd like

" The choices we may have in 2112

...

'certainly sir we stock all these Apple products'

'any other brands?'

'not since the great patent wars of the early 2000's"

Well, in the United States of Apple, anyway.

26
1

Re: I'd like

Yeah, and maybe your choice in 2112 will be a range of products from Apple and a range of products that are completely different from Apple products.

In your world, you seem to want a range of Apple products and a range of cheap, inferior copies of Apple products.

2
50
HMB

Re: I'd like

"In your world, you seem to want a range of Apple products and a range of cheap, inferior copies of Apple products."

I must express my distaste at your distorted perspective here. I happily bought a Galaxy Nexus instead of an iPhone 4S, WOW, imagine that. No coercion or anything.

You know what! I even LIKE the iPhone 4S. It's attractive, beautifully, slickly animated and erm... very shiny.

I wanted:

* Good call quality

* A big colourful 4.65" hi res display

* A wifi tether that didn't run to the operator to report usage

* Bluetooth file transfers

* Bluetooth audio with previous and next track control via AVRCP (or have they finally added that?)

I also found the large buttonless front of the Galaxy Nexus very stylish and... shiny :D

The Super AMOLED display is so... black and high contrast. It really fits into the aesthetics of the front really well.

31
1

Re: S3 not exempt

> It likely doesn't violate the trade dress patents, but it would still violate the UI patents like the bounceback.

Where does the S3 use bounceback? It doesn't appear to use it in the gallery application or other applications that I've noticed. Instead, a highlight extends from the edge over the main display, but the main display stays still -- as in stock ICS.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: S3 not exempt

My s2 doesnt have bounceback, it displays a blue fade bar when you hit the endstop. Or has apple patented that too?

2
0

Re: I'd like

"I must express my distaste at your distorted perspective here. I happily bought a Galaxy Nexus instead of an iPhone 4S, WOW, imagine that. No coercion or anything."

+1

I happily replaced an iPhone 3GS with a Galaxy S - and despite Apple's hysterics about it being a "clone" didn't confuse the two of them once.

Always baffled me how Apple could assert that a phone which had significantly more features than the iPhone was somehow a clone at the same time...

27
2
Silver badge

No bounceback on S2 and S3

I wasn't aware of this, I assumed they had the same TouchWiz layer on all of them. So the S3 may be safe after all.

Makes me wonder how many other UI differences there are between different Samsung TouchWiz devices. Is there a Galaxy version and other versions for other Samsung phone lines?

0
0
Silver badge
Pirate

Re: S3 not exempt

My rubber ball has bounce-back built in to its UI.

Is it banned, cross-licenced or prior art?

A billion in fines? At what point does it become not worth trading in the US?

17
1

Re: S3 not exempt

"At what point does it become not worth trading in the US?"

Thats exactly what Apple want. The market all to themselves. They have seen Samsung errode their market share and are keen to stop it though legal action.

7
1
Megaphone

Re: S3 not exempt

Exactly.

I am pretty sure Americans would get pretty fed up pretty quick if all other makers just up sticks and moved out of the market. If I were in charge of Samsung, that's exactly what I would do - they have a big enough market without all this crap.

Let the US have their insane patents, and inferior iphone 4s. Just been made to have one for work, next to my s3 it is utterly crap in so many ways.

11
1
Silver badge
Coat

Re: I'd like

" I hear the real ales, brewed locally in the Apple brewery is quite nice!"

If it's only Apple products we're allowed in the future, surely the only alcoholic beverage would be cider...

6
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: I'd like

I happily replaced an iPhone 3GS with a Galaxy S - and despite Apple's hysterics about it being a "clone" didn't confuse the two of them once.

Same here. I replaced my iPhone 3GS with a Galaxy SII, since the Samsung had a better screen and more responsive applications than the iPhone 4S. The killer feature though was the ability to manage my files by mounting the Samsung as a USB mass storage device rather than having to use iTunes (or more accurately, not using iTunes since I run Linux).

15
0

Re: I'd like

"The choices we may have in 2112"

Or:

"We've taken care of everything,

The words you read, the songs you sing,

The pictures that give pleasure to your eye,

It's one-for-all, and all-for-one,

Let's work together, common sons,

Never need to wonder how or why!"

With apologies to Lee, Lifeson and Peart.

Colin

3
0
Bronze badge

Re: some sort of licensing deal

As hell frozen over, looks sunny outside here for a change

0
0
Silver badge

Re: The Verge just listed the models Apple is aiming for

I think there's still a risk that Samsung may still get sales from people buying the older models at lower prices, particularly for the S2. (A phone which still has higher specs than the latest Iphone, despite being well over a year old now.)

Sad how Apple have to resort to court room action rather than innovating. I know their sales have been plummeting (a staggering drop of 10 million sales in the last quarter alone, with falling market share, and Android now at almost 70% dominance), but have some dignity please. (I was also interested to see a graph yesterday showing that WP share, although still small, has been growing significantly over the last few months...)

0
0

Re: I'd like

Don't be silly, we all know that Taco Bell will win the franchise wars.

1
0
Silver badge

Re: I'd like

" Always baffled me how Apple could assert that a phone which had significantly more features than the iPhone was somehow a clone at the same time..."

Easy. They look at the better device and realise that's how good they ought to have made theirs, and then conclude *that* is what's being copied.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

It ain't over yet - well, unless Judge Koh really is biased... Let's give her the benefit of the doubt before we start counting chickens.

As for the stock market - heck, the speculators are always looking for reasons to make money by shorting stock.

4
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

Well many say it is US protectionism, but patents aren't worldwide. You have to register them in each country. Every company is going to protect their home market.

1
6
Silver badge

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

>but patents aren't worldwide

But justice is supposed to be.

If Apple won this case because 12 hicks in East Texas voted for a Merikan company over gooks - then there is quickly going to be another case where a patriotic Korean jury decides to ban all Apple products, and probably Microsoft and Google aswell, in Korea.

19
4
HMB
Alert

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

"If Apple won this case because 12 hicks in East Texas voted for a Merikan company over gooks - then there is quickly going to be another case where a patriotic Korean jury decides to ban all Apple products, and probably Microsoft and Google aswell, in Korea."

Say what?

I expect the South Koreans to be intelligent and measured about how they respond to things. Google & Microsoft are partners of a metric %*$-tonne of Samsung's work. No one in their right mind in South Korea is going to start banning them.

2/10 - Poor effort, you can do better!

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

> But justice is supposed to be.

Aww, he thinks the law is about justice.

How quaint!

9
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

Not even in Texas.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Talk about counting chickens before they are hatched...

>I expect the South Koreans to be intelligent and measured about how they respond to things.

You expect Samsung's management to be inteligent about things.

The problem is that these cases are decided by juries of 12 ordinary people. Or more generally these days in the USA - 12 unemployed people, since having a salaried job is pretty much a valid excuse to get off a jury.

So just like juries have occasionally convicted someone in a criminal case just because of their skin colour - we now have juries in the patent lawyers favorite jurisdiction who decide the case based on which company is the most American.

Imagine that just after the Rodney King trial you were a white cop facing a jury of black teenagers! That's going to be the next US company going to court in Korea.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

power corrupts

as a big fan of 'breaking bad' I can't help but draw comparisons between Apple's rise to power and willingness to destroy everything around them and that of our 'favourite' protagonist Walter White, the ego is all there, just substitute meth for smartphones and wait for the fireworks......

3
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: power corrupts

What power? they have about 15-20% of the market. They only dominate in one way, profitability.

Just wait until Google and Motorola get going, then we'll see who is anti-competition.

6
7
Silver badge

Re: power corrupts

I went to see "Brave" the other night and a dedication "in memory of Steve Jobs" came up. There was actual booing in the audience!

14
1
g e
Silver badge

Re: power corrupts

Financial power.

They have deep pockets and an OCD-autistic desire to spend on mullering the competition anyway they can.

They'll have to keep playing supplier bingo though, for all the touchscreens and other components as they continue pissing everyone off, and that's going to bite them in the arse fairly soon I should think, especially if LG's sensor-in-pixel screens have a crap yield, which is likely.

3
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: power corrupts

Booing. Disgrace and no respect - sign of the times unfortunately. Whether or not you like the guy or what he achieved you don't boo someone like that.

Problem is some people take this iPhone vs Samsung / Android too far - pick the phone you want but Samsung do you own work as well - don't just copy.

1
15
Silver badge

Re: power corrupts

If Samsung have copied, then so have Apple - the whole idea of making feature/smart phones, apps, grids of icons, touchscreens, multitouch, GPS, Wifi, Internet, video calling, voice recognition, maps, messaging, and far more, all done by other companies first.

And later this year, we have rumours of the next Apple phone being 4" (done by Samsung 2 years ago), or a smaller Ipad (done by Samsung and loads of other companies already).

There isn't anything wrong in copying, technology would be stifled if any given feature or look couldn't be used by anyone else ever.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: power corrupts

You're such a dork, Mark - constantly.

Which one of your laundry list includes patent (or other legal method) encumbered technologies which have not been purchased/licensed by Apple?

Some people don't carry "man-bags", so we prefer a size that (a) can be thumb-operated to all four corners, and (b) is small enough & light enough to fit in a vest pocket.

At least 2 females I know have Galaxy IIIs, they love them because they're so big and do whatever it is they expect to do with them. However they always carry bags to have them in and always seem to be able to stop everything and use 2 hands to operate them. For a phone, bigger != better. And since one of them has already had one half inched from her bag, perhaps carrying expensive objects in hand bags is not such a good idea either. YMMV

The metrics are reversed for a tablet, because none of them are pocketable. The optimal size aspect is governed by visual acuity and two-thumb operability. It seems everyone wants to make a 10" these days, that was not previously the case.

Finally, Apple have released neither a 4" phone or a 7" tablet, so that comment is about as worthless as the rest of the drivel you spout in here.

0
6
Silver badge

Re: power corrupts

Oh look, I seem to have picked up my very own troll.

"Which one of your laundry list includes patent (or other legal method) encumbered technologies which have not been purchased/licensed by Apple?"

The issue was not patents, but "copying" in the general (including legal) sense. No one disputes that Samsung may have copied, but this is no different to the way that many companies, including Apple, copy.

It may well be that in the US, Samsung's "copying" was ruled illegal - but that's the ruling that many of us disagree with.

I'm not sure what any of your comments about size have to do with my post. My 4.65" Galaxy Nexus fits fine in a pocket, and I use it fine one handed. There are plenty of smaller phones if you want one from companies other than Apple.

"It seems everyone wants to make a 10" these days, that was not previously the case."

It wasn't the case when the technology didn't make it possible or worthwhile. Apple weren't making them either previously, after all. The optimal size is clearly a matter of opinion - the idea that there exist two optimums at 3.5" and 10" is one opinion. But millions of people are buying smartphones/tablets (smartphones are tablets, after all) of various sizes, be it 4-5" phones, even the massively popular 5.x" Galaxy Note, as well as the immense success the 7" Nexus is now having. And at 10", I'd rather have a far more functional PC (use with your two thumbs? heh)

And there have been months of vapourware rumours from the media about a 4" phone or a smaller Ipad. I'm sure if they do, you'll be first in line to say how no one wanted to make these until Apple came along, and say how now these are the optimal sizes for devices. And if they don't, then the media were wrong for giving endless hype to Apple - I'd gladly wish they would stop the speculation, and focus on real news about real products that exist today, from successful companies like Samsung.

3
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: power corrupts

"No one disputes that Samsung may have copied, "

Obviously you missed the chorus chanting exactly that here and on every fandoid forum while you were doing a solo in the shithouse. Your statement is disingenuous bullshit. Talk about being detached from reality, sheesh.

"...fits fine in a pocket .."

I think you will find I wrote a "vest pocket" which is rather more specific. But then, missing the details is characteristic of your style. Anyway, you probably haven't worn a suit since the prom or whatever your home country version is, but some of us wear them every day (you know, they don't call us "suits" for nothing). For me the iPhone is the maximum size I am willing to tolerate. YMMV

FYI: I will be the last one hailing a 4" iPhone as optimal (it won't be) or a 7" tablet as optimal (it won't be). They are of course useful dimensions for any number of applications of the form factor, as are the infinite variety of other dimensions possible. One handed thumb operation pretty much dictates the iPhone screen size. +/- a bit won't change much other than the marketing materials.

0
2
Unhappy

Well, that's that then

So Apple will block all the Android devices they can - that is anything that isn't shit - and Microsoft will move in to the gap left.

Much as it pains me to say this, given this ruling I think there will be only two players in the mobile/tablet OS market by the end of the decade: Microsoft and Apple. Yes, you heard me right - Microsoft, not Apple are the big winner here, while Apple will be quite happy to keep the luxury end of the market, just like they always have.

5
6
Thumb Down

Re: Well, that's that then

So the choice will be the walled-garden that is Apple or the walled-garden that MS mobile-devices will be.

To which I say "Screw the pair of them, I'd rather do without".

16
0
Silver badge
Stop

How many Fandroids are going to bother to read what this case

was actually about? Not a lot from the evidence to date.

In a nutshell it was about TouchWiz, Samsung's custom Android skin. The Galaxy Nexus, with stock Android isn't covered. 3 of the 28 devices were also found to infringe Apple's design patents, but the big win was over stuff that Samsung had added to TouchWiz. Killing TouchWiz will have no effect whatsoever on Android, put your paranoid fantasies back in their box.

7
11
Anonymous Coward

Re: How many Fandroids are going to bother to read what this case

How many tech journalists don't understand either - many of them simply parroting the "This is the beginning of the end of Android" bullshit.. which of course is just what Apple and Microsoft want the press to be saying. Apple have also been saying how it is Android that infringes - but then again they're all a bit rabid.

6
2
Silver badge

Re: In a nutshell it was about TouchWiz

In a nutshell, no it wasn't. It's was about Apple using lots of money to shut down competition.

14
4
Silver badge

Re: How many Fandroids are going to bother to read what this case @Steve Todd

This whole thing has seemed to me to be about Apple wanting to limit the ways of doing things to itself, no matter how close to the only logical way to achieve it. I liken it to the early days of motoring, when each different model of car had the controls in different places. Eventually, someone (I don't know who - perhaps someone out there knows?) came up with the current pedal arrangement, and it became standard, presumably because it is the optimum arrangement. It seems to me that if the company that first did it had Apple's attitude, driving different cars would be difficult (not to mention dangerous!), and there would be iDrivers and the rest.

Disclaimer: I do not have any Android devices, nor do I have any Apple devices - in fact, I'm in a position where my next phone will have to be Windows, because I have serious reservations about both and Symbian is dead.

5
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Well, that's that then

Microsoft and Nokia are big winners here - I can certainly see a lot of manufacturers jumping ship to Windows Phone now and Nokia are already there. At the end of the day most people do not really give a fig for Android - so if their next phone happened to run Windows so be it.

That is the big benefit Apple have - they have more brand loyalty - with Android you buy a HTC, then a Samsung then a ???

2
0
Silver badge

Re: In a nutshell it was about TouchWiz

@sabroni - another reading comprehension failure. There were two basic issues at stake in the case. One was physical appearance, Samsung copying Apple's case design and packaging. The jury said for the most part, no Samsung didn't copy this. The other issue was about software behaviour and appearance. Standard Android isn't covered by these claims. Samsung could re-release the offending devices with stock Android and Apple couldn't do a thing about it.

All Samsung had to do to avoid the case completely was to avoid putting features into TouchWiz that were covered by Apple patents. They had to go out of their way to add them. Android either didn't have them or removed them from later versions. I challenge you to find any other big company that would sit still while patented features were being copied by a competitor.

1
7
Silver badge
Stop

Re: How many Fandroids are going to bother to read what this case @Steve Todd

Perhaps you don't understand the concept of a patent. A patent holder has the exclusive right to use or license an invention for its life span. Other companies are free to find another way of doing the same thing (Google seem to be doing just fine with this) but Apple's documented solutions are protected by law.

In some circumstances it is useful for a patent to be used by the whole industry to allow interoperability. In that case the owner must commit the patent to be licensed under FRAND terms (Fair, Reasonable And Non Discriminatory) for the rest of the industry to agree to that common use. Apple have patents that are included in industry standards in this way, like h264.

0
8
Silver badge

Re:@sabroni - another reading comprehension failure

You're totally entitled to believe that. I think you're wrong, I believe Apple went after Samsung because it's a successful competitor not because of some features in touchwiz. Apple would have used different patents and registered designs but the case would still have happened. Job's threat to go thermonuclear on Android would seem to back this up, he didn't declare war on touchwiz.

Notice how I typed that without dissing your reading ability?

3
0
Thumb Up

Re: How many Fandroids are going to bother to read what this case @Steve Todd

Actually there's already an example of precedent for this in the mobile industry with industry standard softkeys. Nokia's softkey paradigm was eventually adopted by most of the major manufacturers simply because users were used to it.

I've no idea what Nokia's internal reaction to it was, because as far as I know they never even stated it publicly, let alone tried to use it to generate revenue.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Forums