back to article UK watchdog snaps on glove to probe Tesco's 'security fails'

The UK's privacy watchdog has opened a tentative probe into the alleged security shortcomings of Tesco's website. The global supermarket behemoth, which sends out password reminders to Tesco.com customers in plaintext, was accused by security researcher Troy Hunt of storing punters' credentials in an unsafe manner, as reported …

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Gold badge

Unfair or not..

.. there seems to be no other way to get them to spend some money on (a) decent fundamentals and (b) INDEPENDENT verification there of than picking them off one by one. If enough of them get a fine that actually has an impact (so not à la Google and FTC, which is merely a rounding error in their profit reporting), it changes the perceived risk for the rest of them and something will get done - at last.

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Anonymous Coward

Ouch..

"Just on the browser compatibly for that XSS: IE9 and IE10 are actually pretty good and will warn you about it without exexuting it. All other browsers tested – Chrome, Firefox and Safari (desktop and iOS) – will happily parse it and allow the exploit to occur."

That comment's going hurt the fanbouys....

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Gimp

Re: Ouch..

What about Opera?

I know there are like 5 of us using Opera but we demand to be recognised!

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Trollface

Re: Ouch..

I must disagree with you.

I think there are 6 of us.

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Thumb Up

Re: Ouch..

Seven

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ouch..

Would be 8 but it's utter shite through proxies (still)

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Should've chosen the Finest security

Rather than the Value one.

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Go

"...if Tesco's software can recover exact passwords from the database, so can hackers..."

As can Tesco sysops/devs/tellers/janitors.

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As stated

The last 3 on your list would qualify as 'hackers', since they'd be accessing parts of the system to which they'd have no legitimate reason to do so.

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Mushroom

Re: As stated - @NogginTheNog

You are of course assuming that Tesco does not allow its janitors etc unfettered access to the system as a whole. Having observed their working practices at close hand, and known a good few people who have worked on their site, I wouldn't be so sure.

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FAIL

Not just Tesco

Australian online retailer Fishpond sends out plaintext replacement passwords. Five characters, too. Class act.

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Re: Not just Tesco

How exactly would you know what your replacement password was if they *didn't* send it plain text?

And 5 characters is absolutely fine - it is assumed you will be changing it on your next logon (most systems will enforce this).

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Re: Not just Tesco

And yes, I am aware that you could link them directly to the password reset form, but that is pretty much exactly the same as emailing the password - it's just that the URL to the password reset form becomes the secret, rather than the password.

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Yup, but the password reset link can only be used once and forces them to change the password (and can also be made more secure by making the link time-sensitive and maybe verifying the link is followed from the same IP that requested it). The problem with sending out a new password via email is that someone else could have used it to get in and you'd be none the wiser.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just Tesco

Not all servers are configured to send and receive email in a secure encrypted fashion, although most servers reject them if they don't. But html forms can be delivered under ssl. The thing is with email, you can never be certain.

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Vic
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Re: Not just Tesco

> Not all servers are configured to send and receive email in a secure encrypted fashion,

> although most servers reject them if they don't

What?

Hardly any email is rejected if it's unencrypted. You need to turn that on explicitly, and only those with a need to do so will even find out how...

> The thing is with email, you can never be certain.

You *can* be certain. But most people[1] don't often feel the need to be certain.

Vic.

[1] Including me

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Anonymous Coward

OK, it's a story, but...

better that there are concerns that Tesco may be storing passwords less securely than they could, rather than complaints that 20 million passwords have been posted to pastebin.

More to the point, it would have been even better if those concerns were raised with Tesco privately first and only then made public after improvements had been made, rather than have every script kiddie and his pals now eagerly probing Tesco's servers.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: OK, it's a story, but...

Perhaps you might like to re-read the article and it's links. Nowhere does Troy Hunt, nor JemJabella state they raised the matter privately with Tesco. JemJabella publicly disclosed a concern in 2007, but that's not the same as approaching the company privately to discuss a security concern.

Why should I disclose my identity to pussy fucks like you who can't be bothered to read the article correctly and who don't see the security risk of going public before approaching the company privately first?

Clarification for the intelligent reader: I have no information that that they didn't speak to Tesco first, but if they did, it would be good to have that declared and for Tesco's response to be published.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: OK, it's a story, but...

why the fuck should they raise it privately? It's a publicly accessible website, the security's shit, they haven't done anything about it in five years and you think a quiet word is going to sort it out? The security risk is all of tescos making, at least if it's in the public domain the public know to be careful. You seem to be advocating security through obscurity, keep it secret and hope they fix it on the quiet. Not going to happen.

I don't want your identity, it's just nice to be able to follow a thread of conversation. twat.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: OK, it's a story, but...

@ AC 14:51.

It seems you have misinterpreted my original and follow up comment: security by obscurity is just as bad.

No, they should have discussed it with Tesco and given them say 3 months to fix it before going public. Perhaps they did, but if so, they have not declared that discussion or Tesco's response.

The comment about my identity was aimed at the twat who also demanded to know my identity rather than accept I use AC. He subsequently deleted his comment. Was it you? I don't know, but without his or her previous comment your observation out of context.

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Sending actual passwords to customers email accounts. Why would a company do that? seems a crazy idea to me.

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Anonymous Coward

Even better they only send the password reminders to the Tesco.net address not to any secondary .... little use when you need the details to be able to log-in in the first place

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They do it because for a company of that size it probably reduces the number of customer support phone calls they receive per day by customers confused by or too thick to understand the password reset process correctly.

Either that or they just don't give a shit.

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@AC 12:04

I think this is about the Tesco website, not tesco.net?

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Tesco claim that they're 'never complacent' but when I asked them recently to respect my rights as a data subject not to receive their marketing, they suggested that I should cancel my ClubCard account if I wasn't happy with their marketing. They wanted me to cancel my account so that the matter would go away rather than deal with it and ensure that they were/are fully compliant with the DPA98. A rather cavalier attitude if you ask me that demonstrates complacency towards Tesco's obligations as a data controller.

Let's not bother to comply with the rights of this data subject, let's just delete his account instead.

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Big Brother

Seems fair enough to me. If you want the ~1% discount on your shopping that having a Clubcard will provide, then you _choose_ to opt in to Tesco's scheme, a part of which is agreeing to receive their targetted marketing.

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Anonymous Coward

From the Tesco.com website...

Marketing and research

If you agree, we may contact you:

* with offers and information about Tesco products or services

* with offers and information about partners' products or services

* for customer research eg to help improve our services

Of course, the choice is entirely yours, but if you say you do not want to receive marketing information from us this will prevent you from receiving great offers or promotions that may be of interest to you.

When you register online you can access a "Contact Preferences" page that allows you to tailor our commercial communications to your preferences.

To change your contact preferences simply click "Your Account" in the top frame and click "Your Contact Preferences". If you do not want to receive commercial communications from us, select your choices by using the boxes available on that page.

We like to hear your views to help us improve our service. From time to time, we may contact you to ask your opinions. Again, if you do not want to be contacted for this purpose, make your choice on the "Contact Preferences" page.

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Anonymous Coward

It IS marketing

The whole Clubcard scheme (and Asda's Price-Match Guarantee, et al) are huge data harvesting rackets, which are then used to push targeted product, either directly (emails) or indirectly (promotions and discounts). I wouldn't be surprised if the costs of running them are even put down under "marketing" on the balance sheet.

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Anonymous Coward

Funny there's no accepted standard.

everywhere I have worked has had a brew-your-own approach to logins. Some encrypted. Some not. Some with a password reminder. Some not.

Shouldn't there be an RFC or similar, outlining basic login handling ?

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Insensitive Clods

The most amazing thing to me is that Tesco passwords are case insensitive!

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Re: Insensitive Clods

That makes sense in a way. Assuming their DBMS collation is case-insensitive (as is very common), then they are probably just doing it in the DB...

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Applies/applied to Play.com

Play.com also keep/kept user's password in a way which can be retrieved - years ago, they e-mailed it to me when I forgot.

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Singling them out? How are you supposed to solve an issue without picking a place to start?

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Small story?

I think Tesco have rather more to worry about.

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Coat

More reasons to shop at Morrisons.

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[awesome title goes here]

My wife has a tesco credit card (for points accumulation). When the online statement is ready the sms reminder reads as follows;

"Dear *wifes password is shown here*, your tesco creditcard statement is now available"

You're damn right Tesco needs to have its security looked at.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: [awesome title goes here]

Maybe it would have helped if you had checked which fields you were filling in :).

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Re: [awesome title goes here]

Maybe you should have paid attention to whose card it was. (Hint, it was his wife's.)

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Re: [awesome title goes here]

That's funny because my Tesco Credit Card doesn't show the password when it emails me to say my statement is ready.

What it does do is show a word/phrase I have entered for the explicit purpose of Tesco including it in the email or text reminder to show the message is genuine and not a phishing exercise...

If your wife has used the same word as her password, and the process of registering for online statements explicitly requests a keyword/phrase in a separate field, then I'd suggest the security failing is closer to home than in Tesco Towers.

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"More to the point, it would have been even better if those concerns were raised with Tesco privately first and only then made public after improvements had been made, rather than have every script kiddie and his pals now eagerly probing Tesco's servers."

Tesco were directly approached first, and denied that this was a problem: all this attention, and the ICO involvement, came after Tesco categorically denied that unhashed passwords were a problem. They haven't yet replied to enquiries about the SQL injection vulnerability...

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Tesco are masters at the art of ignoring questions they don't like and basic answer avoidance whilst appearing to offer service.

I have contacted Customer services, by email and twitter for several issues in the past, and all you ever get are empty replies. Emailed them recently about an issue with my local store, and all they have done is periodically send email replies saying they have tried to ring and have not been able to reach me - that may be because I didnt give them my number!

The only way they will do anything is if they are threatened with a bloody large stick, and I welcome this. Not sure they will act though!

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FWIW

Wot Gaz7 said.

I raised this issue with them about 6 years ago and got a brushoff. The ICO didn't want to know about it back then either.

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Stop

Why is it that Tesco.com insist on a password between 6 and 10 characters long? Bizarre - I can't have a longer password (I usually have 13-14 character passwords).

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FAIL

No database breach has occurred at Tesco.com...

Surely this should be qualified with "yet" or "that has been made public".

If they can't even store passwords securely, how do we know that their intrusion detection is up to scratch, for all they know there is a copy of their database (or the interesting bits at least) sitting on a hard drive in some snot nosed script kiddie's bedroom.

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Shock: Reg writers still can't get this right

Hashing is not encryption. "One-way encryption" is nonsense. Encryption is reversible; hashing is not.

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