back to article The cooler side of the Big Bang

Quantum graphity – not gravity – is a fairly recent and, as far as I can tell, quite obscure angle on cosmology, but some University of Melbourne and RMIT researchers are proposing a test for the theory, and at the same time, proposing a different model for the formation of the universe. According to the group of theoretical …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
Pint

thank you Richard Chirgwin

for always being there to melt my puny mind. Cool stuff indeed.

8
0
Silver badge
Alien

Cosmic strings

How are these cracks different from the cosmic strings that were supposed to have been formed during the symmetry breaking/cooling shortly after the big bang? This theory is nearly 30 years old, is this one different or has it just been described via more formalized math?

I believe cosmic string observation was planned to be done via gravitational lensing being observed where there are no visible indications of mass. I'm only aware of one such potential observation over many years, so if cosmic strings exist at all, they would seem to either be extremely rare or less massive than predicted.

0
0
Silver badge
Holmes

Re: Cosmic strings

AFAIK the "Cosmic String" stuff was an outgrowth of the Grand Unified Theories ideas, which is now lingering (due to various problems of theoretical and experimental nature, in particular, no magnetic monopoles anywhere and no large symmetry group to reasonably rule them all)

This looks like it has something to do with newer approaches like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

which seems interesting (something like finite element analysis for causally connected events) though still in its infancy. One might speculate that quantum computers might well be of some use here.

I wonder though why the high-temperature state at the "start" is considered "disorganized". You wouldn't believe the increase in disorder you get by gravitational clumping over 15 billion years.

0
0
Boffin

Entropy and gravity Re: Cosmic strings

One of the (many) confusing things about entropy is that opposite things happen with and without gravity.

As you correctly note, in the presence of gravity, matter clumps and entropy increases. A black hole represents the maximal entropy that a region of spacetime can contain. (It's best if you read that in Stephen Hawking's voice).

But in the absence of gravity, the highest entropy state is one where all the stuff is homogeneously spread out -- much the way entropy is taught in 101 science classes. And what these guys appear to be arguing is that in the very early universe there are no spacetime dimensions, hence no gravity.

1
0

Cosmic solution? Re: Entropy and gravity Cosmic strings

By the way, I wonder if this theory could help solve the problem of how the universe starts out in a high entropy state. In its initial state without spacetime (and therefore gravity) the universe adopts a high entropy state, i.e. a homogeneous soup. At some point spacetime crystallizes, gravity "switches on", and finds itself with a a very low entropy state for a universe that has gravity. Neat?

0
0
Facepalm

Re: Cosmic solution? Entropy and gravity Cosmic strings

D'oh. "...starts out in a LOW entropy state", of course.

0
0
Silver badge
Headmaster

Re: Cosmic strings

Somewhat related: How to get spacetime from the permutation group and the Ghost of Physics Future.

0
0
Coat

Quantum graphity

Isn't that the smallest possible graph-based output from an Excel spreadsheet?

Mine's the one attached to the PowerPoint presentation.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Quantum graphity

No. Anything from Microsoft is bloatware

2
1
Silver badge
Coat

Re: Quantum graphity

> No. Anything from Microsoft is bloatware

The swelling before everything blows apart resulting in increasing entropy?

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Quantum graphity

So you're suggesting Microsoft caused the Big Bang in the first place?

That gives a whole new meaning to "Quantum Gates".

3
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Quantum graphity

"Microsoft caused the Big Bang "

Microsoft and "Big Bung" seem to be a better fit

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Quantum graphity

Wouldn't a 'Micro' 'soft' preclude any 'Big Bang'?

1
0
Silver badge

Re: Quantum graphity

Depends. Is the end of the universe a blue screen of death?

0
0
Bronze badge
Mushroom

Ever-expanding maelstrom

Constantly expanding for no visible reason, without actually improving? Clearly, the universe itself is Windows!

At some point in the future, a far-off version of Windows will consume all available resources in the universe, crashing the cosmos itself and looping back to the start where it can continue expanding without limit. Scary stuff.

6
0
Windows

Re: Ever-expanding maelstrom

Ah yes, the old "Blue Screen of Cosmic Heat-Death" theory...

3
0
Facepalm

Re: Ever-expanding maelstrom

...or, to paraphrase Eliot:

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a core dump.

2
0
Bronze badge
Windows

Re: Ever-expanding maelstrom

Actually the Universe is shutting down, it is just taking *forever* to install updates.

4
0
Coat

opposite of the big bang

is the gnab gib, Shirley?

4
0
Silver badge
Trollface

Re: opposite of the big bang

opposite of the big bang

is the nut grab and don't call me Shirley.

0
0
Childcatcher

Oh inflation

On the other hand

If we think about the conditions before the big bang, the singularity, we have learned that distance and time have no meaning, if anything was to happen than it would do so through every particle (if that description can be used) at once. This could well describe a quantum entangled system: time has no relevance.

Time does not actually exist. What we see and deal with on a daily basis is vectors; absolute time is not important. We might know how a system was before, how it is now and we can predict how it will become but time is just a convent concept which we use to describe what we observe.

We never consider that “time” might be as flexible as anything else we see. Could it be that the big bang was the loss of the quantum entanglement and the realisation of the implicit vectorisation it concealed? The inflation beloved of cosmologists might be the revelation of the inner nature of the singularity following the loss of entanglement. A large object fully entangle would appear to be infinitely small. If the entanglement was lost, perhaps propagating through the object, it would in an apparently small “time” appear to be massive. Did this shockwave generate the background microwave radiation?

Inflation or entanglement loss?

0
0
Gold badge
Coat

Re: Oh inflation

Hmmm.. An interesting theory. However I think thst the main problem with inflation is explaining why it happens. In this theory would need to explain why entanglement was lost; do we need an "entanglement-breaking" field, and does it need its own force-carrier particle? a MIPS Boson?

0
0
Silver badge
Paris Hilton

Re: Oh inflation

What the hell are you talking about?

0
2
Boffin

Re: Oh inflation

The bigger problem with inflation is not explaining why it happens, but why it stops. That's one of the reasons the original inventor of the theory is now turning against his own theory.

0
0
Alien

Re: Oh inflation

I think that the reason why entanglement was lost (if it was, and isn't just stretched all over the place as space/time expands) is because something forced everything outwards from a central point (note, this is not the centre of the universe, just a central point according to our limited perceptions of what we call the known universe). So why the bang? Force. From what? Don't know, but I would suggest pressure was a major factor because of the heat which we take to be evidence of the bang.

Why would inflation/expansion stop? Has it done so yet? Will it do? If it does, then I would suggest that the reason is resistance. Something outside of the known universe pushing back.

0
1
Megaphone

/Sings

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state...

0
0
Silver badge
Coat

Kilroy...

... may or may not have been here.

- Quantum Graffiti

4
0

I'm such a klutz

I don't actually understand the problem. The universe starts off in a high energy state (no matter particles). QM governs everything. General relativity doesn't have any baring because there is no matter in the initial stage. The analogy being, if you want you can set a national speed limt of 60mph if you like, but if you haven't invented cars and motorways the law is meaningless.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: I'm such a klutz

I take your point but GR includes energy terms in the field equations as well as mass so although QM will govern the very small initial state GR should start to act as the universe expands. Even if there are no particles the curvature of space-time should still influence photons

0
0
Trollface

Re: I'm such a klutz

>>Even if there are no particles the curvature of space-time should still influence photons

Photons are particles

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: I'm such a klutz

Photons are massless particles/waves.

What else is there ? energy at high temperatures is generally photons - gamma rays, x-rays etc

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Sigh.

I stopped reading at '...topology and dimensions are useless'.

Oh, really? Then what the heck is physics all about? I wish I could put it as eloquently as Miles Mathis, but readers can delight their brains at www.milesmathis.com/updates.html

I hope physics will one day return from its current hocus pocus state.

0
4
Anonymous Coward

Re: Sigh.

"I don't understand it, therefore it must be wrong". Thank you for your contribution.

4
0
WTF?

Re: Sigh.

Well anyone who can publish several papers a week on cutting edge 'physics', correct hundreds of years of 'errors' and all without a single reference except to their own non-reviewed 'papers' is clearly not in a 'hocus pocus state'.

Seriously.

2
0
Silver badge
FAIL

Re: Sigh.

Sounds like 100 years ago you would have been arguing only Newtonian physics matters and quantum and GR were hocus pocus.

0
0
Devil

You are sadly mistaken

God created the world in 6 days. By 'world' I mean Earth. Which is flat. You will all burn in hell.

3
0
Silver badge
Trollface

Re: You are sadly mistaken

Hey look another alumni from the Kansas public education system.

1
0
Coat

Ooh...

"Think of the early universe as being like a liquid," said lead researcher James Quach. "Then as the universe cools, it 'crystallises' into the three spatial and one time dimension that we see today. Theorised this way, as the Universe cools, we would expect that cracks should form, similar to the way cracks are formed when water freezes into ice."

Y'mean like a space-time rift? Where's Torchwood?

0
0
This topic is closed for new posts.

Forums