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back to article Samsung's Wang was up 22 hours a day, had no time to copy Apple

Samsung fired its opening salvo against Apple's allegation that the South Korean giant ripped off the iPhone design, and claimed it worked its arse off to develop its own gadgets. At the two tech titans' ongoing patent trial in the US yesterday, Sammy also argued that Apple's iProducts are not unique. The South Korean firm …

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"Samsung also used video testimony from Roger Fidler, who created prototype tablets for interactive newspapers, to argue in court that the iPhone and iPad designs aren't unique. Some of Fidler's devices look like Apple's fondleslab, complete with a large touchscreen and rounded corners"

New lawsuit pending?

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Meh

2 to 3 hours a night hey!

If she had said 5 or 6 it might have been more believable.

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Anonymous Coward

Have downvotes

All the hysterical fandroids for their childish behaviour and juvenile comments that have expressed no valued comment other than portraying themselves as a mass of phychosymatic sheep on their monthly group period.

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Anonymous Coward

Wang Chung

WANG CHUNG surely they were an 80's pop band?

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"The fruity firm also brought out smartphones that don't look like iPhones such as Nokia's Lumia 800. The trial continues."

EXACTLYhow come everyone else can make a phone that does not look like an iPhone apart from samsung, and the rounded corners argument is Bullshit! Samsung is doing that same as the cheap knockoff merchants that copy a gucci bag , but just change the spelling.

Look up the samsung Tocco , looked nothing like the iPhone yet was full touchscreen and had its own style of icons, totally dropped in favour of the Galaxy ripoff.

Yes virtually everything is made of previous bits put together in a new way, however if we just allow far eastern firms to rip off everything we do on the cheap, the west is fucked!

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iBag

Your analogy is interesting.

Imagine that Apple had designed a handbag. It wasn't the first handbag ever made, and had two handles and internal pockets like many other bags, but the iBag used a magnetic clasp and adjustable straps. The first time a mag clasp/adjustable straps are used on a handbag, but they *have* been used on other types of bag.

Then someone produces a handbag that looks similar to the iBag and it has a magnetic clasp. The galaxy bag *cannot* be mistaken for the iBag despite being similar and in addition the rival bag is branded in such a way that no-one could possibly think Apple made it.

The whole thing is daft. I understand Apple want to protect their hard work and their development costs, but this is beyond that, they also want to inhibit competition and that's not a good thing for anyone, even Apple.

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Facepalm

"Look up the samsung Tocco , looked nothing like the iPhone yet was full touchscreen and had its own style of icons, totally dropped in favour of the Galaxy ripoff."

I'm looking at mine right now & it's rectangular with rounded edges...

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I think my Credit Card has rounded edges...hum. I think Mastercard should be suing Apple for infringement...

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Exactly. They're a Copycat.

Witness for Samsung, Adam Bogue, a former business executive with Mitsubishi Electric Research Lab, discussed a multi-touch, touchscreen table-based system called DiamondTouch that he showed to Apple hardware engineers in 2003.

ie. Apple copied Bogue's work.

Benjamin Bederson, a professor of computer science at the University of Maryland, testified about a zoomable user interface his team developed called LaunchTile in the summer of 2004.

ie. Apple copied Bederson's work.

Itay Sherman, chief executive of the multi-touch company DoubleTouch and an inventor with 20 patents to his name said that features like big screens, rounded corners, and "lozenge" speaker holes predated what Apple brought out with the iPhone.

ie Apple copied DoubleTouch's work.

Roger Fidler demonstrated his 1990s 'Fidler' tablet prototype he designed as part of the labs group for news conglomerate Knight-Ridder, explaining that he had actually shown the device to Apple in 1994, the same year the company would apply for the '889 patent, which covers the look of the iPad.

ie. Apple copied Fidler's work.

Apple infringes three Samsung patent phone features: photo attachments to email, bookmarking digital photos and background music during other functions.

ie. Apple copied Samsung's work.

With so much copying going on, you have to ask who's the Slave and who's the Thief?

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Anonymous Coward

Knight -Ridder

Totally off-topic, but:

news conglomerate Knight Ridder ?

Did all their employees drive black Ponttiac Trrans Am's ?

With the lttile Rred light ?

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Thumb Down

I'm looking at the tocco..., and you know what, I think they definately followed on from this design for the SGSII, hold on, you know what, the iPhone 4 looks a lot like it.... did APPLE copy Samsung?

And yes its rectangular with rounded edges...

Oh and the SGS was nothing like an iphone, its bigger, its got a flatter back, less pronounced curves, and is basically a better phone to hold....

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@El_Fev - Not so

Samsung are not ripping-off anyone off, least of all Apple. They are just following a trend that has been building for ages. It's Apple that seem to think they invented and own this stuff. Take a wander off to here. This is a legal filing from Samsung showing just this...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1257891/Samsung_unredacted_trial_brief.pdf

...the interesting stuff is reproduced here, which is a lot faster to load and read...

http://www.osnews.com/story/26230/Samsung_reveals_its_pre-iPhone_concepts_10_touchscreen_devices

It clearly shows that Samsung has, like everyone else, been working on these ideas long before the iPhone was even talked about. It's the same story with the iPad - ALL the ideas in the iPad that Apple are using to sue everyone were invented LONG before the iPad hit the market. Some of the ideas like the general look and feel of thing have been around for decades.

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Tocco trouble

"Look up the samsung Tocco , looked nothing like the iPhone yet was full touchscreen and had its own style of icons, totally dropped in favour of the Galaxy ripoff."

But the Tocco was crap.

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Mushroom

You've Lost The Plot!

The Apple iProducts are in no way "western". ALL "their" technology is taken from the Far East. They can't manufacture anything themselves (you probably believe that the iCrap is USA-made). ALL their iRubbish is made in Korea, and China. Even their displays are made by SAMSUNG - even their super "iRetina" nonsense!

EVERYTHING Apple has done is an iRipOff. They've stolen ideas from everywhere and stuffed them into their overpriced iJunk. They've been caught out, and the counter-suits from Samsung, Sony, Panasonic KME, Nokia and all the rest should put them finally out of business.

Apple have just released their latest brokenware "operating system". An even harder-to-operate piece of iCrapware than the last - they really are trying hard to alienate their users and go out of business....

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Unhappy

Re: iBag

The real sad thing is that I think that from the Judges remarks that Apple will be likely to prevail, Apple has already won this case. The only hope for a competitive market would be that a ruling favorable toward Apple would be overturned in an appeal. Failing that, hopefully the US would launch an anti-trust lawsuit against Apple. If the conservatives gain more power in the US, that won't happen. If Apple wins against Samsung, they will go after every other Android or otherwise smart phone in the world using that same stupid patent. Then consumers will have no in what smart phone that they use.

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Sorry El_Fev

Given that Apple claims the iPhone wasn't a copy of the Prada design because the LG phone "has a raised button". Really, it wasn't a copy because the only distinction between the two is a button protruding slightly from the face? Bovine excrement! All Apple did was colorize the Prada icons so instead of the light on dark square icon with rounded corners the phone icon became green and the mail icon became blue, quite an innovation depending on the aesthetic you're after. The iPhone is a total ripoff of the Prada and if the far eastern firms continue to allow Apple to rip off everything they do, we're all fucked!

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Apple's bounce-back patent ('381) is invalid.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3244581/samsung-expert-apple-bounce-back-patent-invalid

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/despite-judges-entreaty-apple-v-samsung-charges-towards-finish-line/

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iPhone and iPad infringing Samsung's Patents

Another Samsung expert, Dr. Tim Williams, walked the jury through two patents key to doing "high speed data transfer" on a 3G network. Those two patents, No. 7,447,516 and No. 7,675,941, are infringed by the iPhone and iPad, and mean that it's Apple—not Samsung—who needs to pay up.

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"so the designs were obvious and can't be patented"

Agreed - now stop feeding the lawyers

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Anonymous Coward

Samsung workflow

Wang of course could be telling the truth and Samsung could still be at fault. Techcrunch have given a much more revealing review of the evidence submitted so far than is given by this article. The documents are fairly damning. To me the evidence very much suggests the following.

Wang: "How about this?"

Executive consulting design objectives document: Do the icons look like the iPhone yes/no

Answer = No

Executive to Wang: "No, go away and work harder - check the objectives document"

...

Wang "How about this?"

Executive consulting design objectives document: Do the icons look like the iPhone yes/no

Answer = No

Executive to Wang: "No, go away and work harder - check the objectives document"

...

repeat until the the answer at step two is yes.

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Re: Samsung workflow

The trial is still going. Not all of the evidence has been presented to the Jury yet (let alone TechCrunch).

I also saw this at TechCrunch:

"Apple has the right to defend what it feels it developed and patented"

I've emailed the Ed with the correction:

"Apple has to prove that (a) what it has patented is enforceable, and (b) what it has patented has been infringed."

The onus is on Apple to prove its case, not the other way around.

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Re: Samsung workflow

not even the Jury, you're neglecting to mention Samsung destroyed much of it.

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Paris Hilton

What's weird is...

..these highly-paid lawyers and judges' job is to pronounce solemnly things like, "...although it had a rectangular display and rounded corners, it doesn't look like the iPad..."

Why we reward and aggrandize people who say such hilariously simple and dull things I'll never know.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What's weird is...

Ah, aggrandize, my new 'Mot du jour!'

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Big Brother

Re: What's weird is...

Personally I'm just waiting for someone from Cupertino to visit Britain and see one of the VW adverts for the Golf (you know the ones, where all sorts of cars features and other stuff are compared to Golf's).

Then the Germans can be next on the lawyers hitlist for infringing Apple's patent on comparing things?

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Re: Apple's patent on comparing things

With a little luck they'll go after those meerkats next.

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WTF?

Pathetic - If I was the judge in this case I would just personally bitch slap both parties in the middle of the court room and tell them what a complete set of bitches they both are for suing each other over such frivolous shit!

Great headline for the story by the way!

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Coffee/keyboard

I'm only commenting on the headline

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...excelent!

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Happy

Re: I'm only commenting on the headline

Indeed! Well played, El Reg, well played.

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Pint

Re: I'm only commenting on the headline

I'm just upset that I had to scroll so far down the page to find a comment already relating to it.

Best headline ever.

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Anonymous Coward

If their wang is up for more than 4 hours...

shouldn't they have called a doctor?

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Happy

Re: I'm only commenting on the headline

Indeed, +1. I bet when this story landed on the desk, a quick browse of the details and... oh my GOD! Samsung's Wang was up 22 hours a day!

Heh... what dirty little minds we have. [love it!]

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FAIL

Can I sue Apple?

As I created a GD2 based online rounded icon creator in 2005...

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Re: Can I sue Apple?

Only if you trademarked/patented it. Otherwise you have to find someone (EFF perhaps) that can use your source code to help invalidate Apple's patent.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Can I sue Apple?

No, but you can stop them suing people, via prior art.

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Oi Reg

*chomp* *chomp* *chomp* *chomp*

Where's our popcorn icon?

*chomp* *chomp* *chomp* *chomp*

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"The fruity firm also brought out smartphones that don't look like iPhones such as Nokia's Lumia 800"

Will they trot out the LG Prada too I wonder? Not bloody likely.

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Joke

Sleeping at the job?

22 hours a day to make a bad clone of Apple's interface?

She might not be very good at design, but man does she have a future in comedy!

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WTF?

Re: Sleeping at the job?

I guess no one notice the Joke Alert icon....13 down votes?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Icon

No, they just didn't think the joke was very funny.

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Anonymous Coward

Dodgy argument...

Quote: "Sammy also argued that Apple's iProducts are not unique"

Yes and no.

Yes, in the sense that nothing in human history has ever been completely unique. Everyone has learned something from a predecessor, and in some respects everything we make is partially derivative.

No, in the sense that several Apple developments are widely accepted as instrumental to a tech revolution. The iPhone was one such development. If you disagree, take it up with the myriad industry commentators who have said as much.

The iPhone provoked a huge amount of controversy when first presented - was it too big? ...could a device with no keyboard attract broad acceptance? ...wouldn't a touch-only interface get a bit streaky and disgusting?...and so on. This would never have happened if we had an existing model to evaluate - it would only lead to comparisons. The iPhone wasn't referred to as the potential killer of a similar rival, but many phones afterward were dubbed 'iPhone-killers'. Apple defined the benchmark. Samsung is on a losing argument if it tries to prove otherwise.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Dodgy argument...

Not apples developments, apples MARKETING, since the original iPhone was no better than my HTC smart phone, or one of many smart phones out at the time...

BUT it had the marketing behind it, and that got people buying smart phones, the costs were already dropping and they just happened to hit the market running..

I never brought an iPhone because it was too small, it had no replaceable battery, it couldn't do half the things my HTC windows phone did at the time...

I only moved to pure touch screen after they got big enough to have a half decent keyboard, although I'd still like a slide out qwerty keyboard if I could

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Re: Dodgy argument...

"No, in the sense that several Apple developments are widely accepted as instrumental to a tech revolution. The iPhone was one such development. If you disagree, take it up with the myriad industry commentators who have said as much."

The Iphone caused a tech revolution, because Apple fans say-so? If you say so.

As everyone here has noted (see, I can do weasel-worded appeal-to-popularity too), the history of smartphones has been long before Apple, and it would have continued on its development with or without Apple. For every good thing you can say Apple did, there are countless ones we can also say for the other phone companies like HTC, Nokia, LG and Samsung.

"The iPhone provoked a huge amount of controversy when first presented" - false, it was hyped widely by the media even before it was released, further proving that the media focus was not due to the actual product released, but because of the usual Apple bias.

"could a device with no keyboard attract broad acceptance?" - false, there have been keyboardless phones before, and there was no broad opposition to the idea.

"wouldn't a touch-only interface get a bit streaky and disgusting?" - well I think that still is a problem with capacitive touchscreens, however you're making it up to claim that there was some big opposition to Apple here from the media. The bias has been against resistive touchscreens from the start.

"The iPhone wasn't referred to as the potential killer of a similar rival, but many phones afterward were dubbed 'iPhone-killers'." - yes, the media are biased towards Apple. I don't see that as a good thing though.

The Iphone *was* "killed" - as a model, it was rivalled in sales by the Nokia 5800; as a platform, outsold by Symbian and now Android. Did any of those media commentators acknowledge that? No, they still only go on about Apple. Referring to something as an "iPhone-killer" isn't that the Iphone was new, all it says is that the author is an Apple fan, and chooses bias wording. It means that even if the other platform completely outsells Apple, he can still spin it by saying "Oh look, but the Iphone was first, and it wasn't completely killed off!"

The original Iphone gave Apple appalling phone sales compared to the competing companies. Only years later, did they finally gradually increase their sales to be more (though still 3rd place). The original Iphone was years behind in basic features. These are now finally added, but it's laughable to suggest that Apple defined the smartphone with the Iphone 4S.

"Apple defined the benchmark." - what benchmark? Of releasing an expensive phone with features years behind the competition, but still getting the media hype? I agree entirely.

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Re: Dodgy argument...

I agree, though note we can't even credit Apple for selling more due to marketing. It didn't - in the early years, Apple's sales were nothing compared to other smartphone platforms like Symbian, BlackBerry and even Windows Mobile. It was those platforms that got people buying more smartphones, not Apple - and more recently, the massive growth has overwhelmingly been due to Android. If you removed all of Apple's sales, it would have made little change, especially in the earlier years.

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Mushroom

Re: Dodgy argument...

Do you mean "the myriad industry commentators" who'd say anything to receive a free piece of iJunk?

My Nokia touch phone from 1997 (without a physical keyboard) certainly predates Apple's notion of any phone - sorry iWankers.....

I built my first portable MP3 player wih a tiny laptop hard drive back in 1993 - this certainly predates the iPod - sorry Apple....

The touch interface with panning and zooming using "multitouch" was included in a Siemens CCTV security system in the late 80s - Apple's case looks really weak.....

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Silver badge

Re: Dodgy argument...

Er... mongo-what? Good god did you just cross a line, mate. Can't win an argument so you resort to disgusting insults.

Well done!

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FAIL

House Rules.

"4. No trolling - it's OK to be provocative, but trolling is another matter." How the actual fuck is iWankers not trolling? Or for that matter joking about people having AIDS or calling people mongoloid? No, it's not PC you massive dick, it call decency.

While I'm at it...

"6. We're thick-skinned, but... if you slag off The Register or its writers your comment may get canned - this is our house, after all. Requests for writers to be sacked or for stories not to have been published are unlikely to hang around for long. Use your common sense." Why is it that you mock Apple again? Fucking hypocrites.

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FAIL

Re: Dodgy argument...

iProducts

iCrap

iRubbish

iRetina

iRipOff

iJunk

iCrapware

iWankers

How long did it take you to come up with these hilarious iNames?

"I built my first portable MP3 player wih a tiny laptop hard drive back in 1993 - this certainly predates the iPod - sorry Apple...."

Why didn't you patent it then ?

Yet another troll with a massive chip on their shoulder.

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Anonymous Coward

How do

The fandroids manage to walk with the weight of that chip on their shoulder.

Pedantic, no substance, valueless, ranting, tantrums, herd instinct comments, fabricated lies, deliberate untruths, ill-informed shouty heads, and that's just a start.

Are they the missing link?

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