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back to article UK Border Agency to create 'national allegations database'

The home affairs committee has welcomed plans by the UK Border Agency (UKBA) to create a National Allegations Database to manage information provided by the public on possible immigration violations. In a report (PDF) on the UKBA's work between December 2011 and March 2012, the committee says that overall, only 4 per cent of the …

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Sir

Oh noes! the databases are coming, the databases are coming!!

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: Sir

A reference to Kempf right? Googling that guy was fucking hilarious - I guess your downvoters missed that.

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Re: Sir

Found the link:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/10/whining_commentard/

I don't know if the article or the commentards or all win but I do remember it hurt my bladder!

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Re: Sir

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise it would be necessary but it seems El Reg has been infiltrated by at least 5 farcebookers/twaterati :)

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Facepalm

Well, let's think, shall we?

The obvious things, like malicious complaints about people we don't like (or who "don't look/think/act like us"); the usual IT-based cock-ups, producing false trails/leads which have to be investigated; cost over-runs as the mega-specification provides the usual suspects with the excuse to up the budget for "unforeseen circumstances" - the list is endless.

Here's an idea - immigration control could check people's passports when they LEAVE the country as well as when they ARRIVE. That way, the UKBA would actually know how many "illegals" there are here instead of just guessing and going through this kind of silly charade where we're all encouraged to snitch on each other and be subject to constant surveillance ... or perhaps that's really what "they" want?

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Facepalm

Re: Well, let's think, shall we?

Mrs Scum: I don't like darkies!

UK Stasi Agency: Why thank you Mrs Scum, we'll send the darky elimination squad round pronto!

Yup, that'll work.

Why does the gov want everyone except the actual police to "police" the UK?

Oh right, they don't need to pay vigilantes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Well, let's think, shall we?

> Oh right, they don't need to pay vigilantes.

Got it in one - it's the Big Society in action!

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Wouldn't it be easier and simpler just to build a big fence around Newcastle and then just assume that all those that are inside it are illegal immigrants?

If it works can we do Manchester next?

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit

It's the only way to be sure.

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With only a change of sign that would work perfectly.

On the other hand the deportation of everyone inside the M25 would simultaneously solve the problems, of high unemployment, high house prices, Westminster, phone hacking tabloids and the Olympics

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit

I propose nuking not just the site from orbit, but instead, the entire site.

This is the only way to be sure.

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Facepalm

Simples solution init

'concerns about a huge backlog of 276,000 immigration cases, which it says is "larger than the population of Newcastle upon Tyne".'

Just send all the people in Newcastle upon Tyne on a long holiday, move the backlog immigration cases there with a bit of overspill, then you know where they are. Oh, and probably build a big wall in case, and encourage all the people in Gateshead to 'complain' (what happened to allegation?) about all the people now in Newcastle upon Type and they will up the complaint accuracy rate and know where to find all the people who complained to give them feedback. Then the UKBA would have some good stats to report for a change.

Or maybe just give up the idea of a hearsay database that can ruin peoples lives. The sad thing is that given the choice, UKBA would probably opt for my first option.

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Facepalm

Should be cheap...

They can base it off the file-sharing 'allegations' database

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Re: Should be cheap...

I want the database for people with funny eyebrows which meet in the middle, they're sure to be criminals.

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Devil

Good good

A national denouncement database.

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Big Brother

Re: Good good

That would be ' doubleplus good.'

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Low Yield

Of course the low yield could just be down to not having enough staff to run the enforcement arm of the business. This would fit in with the reports of illegal immigrants being told to turn up on a set time/day at an office rather than being collected and held for checks.

All of this is meaningless if you cannot hold/deport illegals at the time they are encountered rather than having them roaming the country during a legal wrangle period of several months to allow them ample opportunity to create a new life in the UK, which then creates a set of 'Human Rights' allowing a whole new legal wrangle period (always assuming someone remembers to check if they are still here).

To top it off, it seems that prospective illegals are sharing knowledge on how to beat the system with one of the favourites being to just lose all sense of identity. If officialdom cannot prove who you are and your nationality then it seems they are powerless to remove you.

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Black Helicopters

what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

This will be a great way to harrass your neighbours, especially if they "look foreign".

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Re: what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

Perhaps they could name the system Constable Savage after the NTNN sketch.

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Re: what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

Perhaps we have got this the wrong way around and it's actually a database to Colette details on National Front members and other undesirables.

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Re: what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

Colette = collate. Stupid auto-correct.

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Happy

Re: what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

Who is colette, and are her statistics so impressive that an entire government database is needed to collate them?

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Re: what a bonus for racists and other noxious people

Will someone introduce me?

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Anonymous Coward

You know who would be good at maintaining this database?

G4S

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Anonymous Coward

Oooo goody, another nebulous IT project commissioned by one of the least-competent agencies of the government! Let's start taking bets at how many hundreds of millions it will be overbudget, how many years late it'll be, and whether it'll actually be fit for purpose at the end of it all. And how many freshly-redundant border staff could have been employed had they saved the money instead.

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Government IT projects

On Error Resume Next

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Obligatory

"Become a government informant. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!"

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Stalin just called

Offered to send Lavrenty Beria to us here as an advisor, free of charge...

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Where UKBA can go for advice...

East Germany...this is exactly what the Stasi used to do.

NB Godwin's Law does not apply to this post.

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Boffin

Re: Where UKBA can go for advice...

No, the Stasi had a database on people who were legally there but wanted to get out. But maybe I'm being picky.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Where UKBA can go for advice...

No, the Stasi attempted to have a database on *everybody*.

Being cynical, I love the way the Stasi are always trotted out as the ultimate bogeyman when these sort of issues arise. Yes they were bastards, and I personally know Germans who suffered directly at their hands, but I do so love the way they're still continually being used as a bit of a 'smokescreen' (à la 'hey, at least we're not the Stasi!') to ameliorate the fact that our 'security services' have been maintaining databases for decades (or longer) which are just as pernicious as any the Stasi ever had, detailing the minutiae of the lives of individuals they regard with the same degree of suspicion the Stasi regarded their (to them, just as legitimate) targets with as well.

The Yanks are currently being particularly bad for this in an overt and somewhat bombastic manner (hey, you could have a FBI, CIA, NSA and TSA file, maybe even a TPC file as well), our lot have always been a bit more circumspect, but that doesn't mean they're not gathering the information.

Mines is the 'super-sekrit' file lurking somewhere which, amongst other things, contains the classic comment 'too intelligent to be unemployed' [time period concerned was during the Thatcher regime, the comment, which in the context of the rest of the file, should be read as: 'up to no good' as far as officialdom (then) was concerned]

.

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WTF?

Re: Where UKBA can go for advice...

No, no, no, not STASI - you're forgetting the «special relationship» ! The obvious man for the post is Joseph Arpaio, Sherrif of Arizona's Maricopa County, who is an acknowledged «expert» in dealing with immigrants and who may just be available for a post as senior advisor to the UKBA, if his terms can be met....

Henri

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Low Yeild

''it is still interested in the "low yield" of actionable intelligence that results from these tip-offs''. Ever heard of GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) - if this is just rumours from curtain twitchers, what do you expect ?

I am not saying that they should not be looked into, but don't expect a ''high yeild''.

Yesterday I was amazed at Keir Starmer saying that the conviction rate for rape was too low. Maybe this is because the judge/jury looking at the evidence in the trials decided that they could not convict. Just because a woman makes an allegation does not make the man a rapist. You can't twist the evidence to suit your prejudices!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Low Yeild

Re: Rape. Low conviction rates are mostly due to the poor quality of the cases being brought to trial. An accused has to show either there was no physical act, or that they believed the victim was consenting. The victim has to show there was a physical act. That they are claiming they did not consent, or withdrew consent, is a given. Belief in consent is often the reason why a case fails.

The problem is the number of people who decide after the event that they were raped, or are convinced this is the case by others. These bloat the accusation figures and are prone to fail in court.

This, however, does highlight the reason why 'accusation' databases are bad. Either the case has been concluded one way or another, or it is still ongoing. About the only purpose of an 'accusation' database I can see is to track false reports - a 'cry wolf' database, if you will.

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Re: Low Yeild

UK Conviction rate for rape is high ~ around 60% or so. The 'low' ratio that gets quoted is convictions to complaints of around 6%. Other crimes are not reported in the same way or their clearup rate would appear even lower.

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Be multi-cultural and inclusive in your allegations...

Don't forget to dob in everyone of Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Viking, and Norman French descent - they're all illegals, not one of them got any paper from the Border Agency before they landed in East Anglia, Lindisfarne, Hastings.

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Re: Be multi-cultural and inclusive in your allegations...

Plus anyone Celtic - they only turned up a few hundred years before the Romans.

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Re: Be multi-cultural and inclusive in your allegations...

So we are going to be left with just Norfolk?

At least they have been careful to preserve their genetic identity from any foreign invasion

(or from anyone outside the immediate family)

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Re: Be multi-cultural and inclusive in your allegations...

Homo Sapiens go home! Give the country back to the Neanderthals!

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Big Brother

I think the people who come up with these ideas are the same ones that came up with the names for "The Postcode Lottery" and "Big Brother" - they'll read a report or cautionary tale, not understand it, but think it has a catchy name.

"National allegations database? I read something about it being big in Germany, sounds like a great idea!"

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<Title>

Didn't the STASI do just this?

Has our government forgotten the consequences already?

I seem to recall it wasn't pretty.

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Really Dave

What part of "rolling back the database state" is this ?

Oh, you mean you meant to say "rolling out the database state", well it all fits now, thanks.

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Unhappy

Re: Really Dave

They keep trying to roll back the database state, but it's running with auto-commit on.

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Devil

Re: Really Dave

They roll it back to get a good run up to roll it out very quickly.

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Other allegations database could be available...

For instance, a place where you can dob in local councillors and council officials that you suspect of being on the take. No problems with low yield there.

I havea couple of names to go on it straight away...

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Black Helicopters

Re: Other allegations database could be available...

For instance, a place where you can dob in local councillors and council officials that you suspect of being on the take.

Or tax avoiders!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Other allegations database could be available...

Greywolf: 10:38

> For instance, a place where you can dob in local councillors and council

> officials that you suspect of being on the take. No problems with low yield there.

Already available - and is published fortnightly. Also has a catchy name - 'Private Eye'

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Other allegations database could be available...

You mean, people who do not wish to fund this sort of idiocy?

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98% assessed within 48hours?

Jeez, I thought they were supposed to be short staffed?!

To manage that kind of performance they're either not investigating properly, or they have fleets of investigators and cars waiting on standby 24/7 to "pop round" and check documents.

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Re: 98% assessed within 48hours?

Didn't take NKVD guys long either. Pickup the suspect in the middle of the night, get him to a troika trial first thing in the morning, shoot him just outside the door, bury in the courtyard - next!

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