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back to article Nokia woos networks with 'exclusive Windows 8 mobe deals'

Nokia is keeping schtum amid claims it hopes to sign exclusive deals with European mobile operators for its planned Windows Phone 8 smartphones. The handset-maker is negotiating with carriers to grant sole rights to sell its phones running Microsoft’s next mobile OS in different countries, according to the Financial Times. The …

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Facepalm

Hmm.

Report rumour as fact? Check. Sideswipe Nokia for no apparent reason? Check.

Must be a Gavin Clarke article.

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Sideswipe Nokia for no apparent reason?

Be fair, they do invite it so!

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JDX
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Re: Hmm.

Well they have to keep the negativity balanced. In fact dissing Nokia puts them on a par with Apple, MS and Google which they should be pleased about!

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Re: Hmm.

Well this ex-Nokia guy seems to think it's true.

His blog's quite good reading if you're the type of person who'd quite like to make little voodoo dolls of Flop and stick pins in them. Or is that just me?

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Anonymous Coward

So what phone operators want to go down with Nokia?

Clearly signing any exclusivity based on Windows Phone's performance todate would be suicidal....

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Re: So what phone operators want to go down with Nokia?

You're obviously not the marketing genius that Flop is. Only one operator per country stupid enough to go for WP and that's because they were offloaded cheap = carrier exclusivity deal.

I'm trying to think of how he could run Nokia into the ground any faster but I'm struggling. I'm sure he'll come up with something in a few weeks though.

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apple?

one major difference from apple: people actually wanted the iphone. noone wants the winpho nokias.

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FAIL

Re: apple?

Another difference - with the Apple exclusive deals, you couldn't buy the same Apple iOS running on devices from HTC and Samsung.

Good luck Nokia with your "exclusivity" deals when the same OS is going to be available on HTC, ZTE, Hauwei, and Samsung hardware, amongst others, and probably at a lower price and with better spec.

Is the fading Nokia brand really worth changing carrier to obtain? Highly doubtful, and that's assuming consumers actually take to WP8 in the first place.

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Bad for Nokia

Exclusive worked for Apple because normally an exclusive deal works in a carriers favor, but Apple got control of the iphone and appstore in return. Nokia really gets nothing in return other than getting somebody to carry its phones.

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Re: Bad for Nokia

I'd imagine what Nokia gets in return is marketing. Firstly, one of their problems seems to be the salespeople pushing the latest iPhone/Samsung Galaxy III. So if they do an exclusive deal they can hope that one network provider will be on your side, pushing your phone a bit harder than others.

Secondly you can give them a rebate, based on sales volumes. Which should encourage them to try harder.

Thirdly, it allows Nokia to focus their marketing cash. Lots of joint marketing with the network, so you can get them to add some of their cash to yours. Nokia are getting $200m per year support from Microsoft, not sure how much of that is in free licenses and how much in marketing help though.

Of course the disadvantage is the loss of sales. Assuming people interested in WinPho won't care enough to move networks to get it. But they're struggling to get sales now, so I think the extra sales push (if it happens) from the networks, might be a better bet than just putting the phones on sale and hoping. How many people actively choose their phones, compared with those who take what the best offer is? I can't see them winning at the top-end, but maybe they can get some good sales in the mid and low ends of the market? Once they've got a bit of market share and better apps, maybe they can make a move at the top end. If they can last that long...

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Re: Bad for Nokia

Depends on the details. The Apple deal was unusual because carriers were initially so desperate that they agreed to the 30 % of ARPU to Apple. Usually, it comes with a nice big marketing assistance budget and juicy commissions if certain targets are met. Microsoft and Intel are past masters at that so who's to say we won't see a Nokia WP8 on Intel phone based on the reference design that Intel recently did for Android. The marketing subsidies are tax-deductible for MS and Intel so it's a win, win, fail for MS, Intel and customer.

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Re: Bad for Nokia

Of course the disadvantage is the loss of sales.

Please say you didn't type that with a straight face

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Bad for Nokia

But what Nokia might find happening is that the retailers who don't get to sell the Nokia and are expected to jump through hoops to get it will just decide to boycott Nokia (and Microsoft) altogether. They will also be incentivised to put down the Nokia phone and the competition while promoting the Apples and Androids. All Windows Phones could suffer.

If reports are to be believed there is already a retailer boycott in some countries of Nokia/Microsoft phone products due to their current behaviour.

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Thumb Up

I didn't want a WP before reading this article

But i certainly do now!

I am so excited I am taking out all the party stuff they sent me when I held one for the launch of Vista and do it all again!

In a perfect world they would team up with Asda Mobile, so I stick just put my current SIM card in it.

Seriously Microsoft marketing team, how do you do it? Is it magic you use?

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FAIL

So the've chosen to implement the failed carrier exclusive strategy that failed with AT&T in the US? Why? Are they idiots?

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Devil

Are they idiots?

No - they're just hoping to find some operators who are.

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Anonymous Coward

The real story is

Nokia is desperately trying to find at least one operator that will sell their WP8 - AKA "Titanic - the return trip"

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JDX
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Re: The real story is

WP7 is very good. WP8 could be wonderful (or terrible of course) - and since all major operators are selling WP7 in the UK your comment doesn't even make sense... operators would sell WP8 to cover their bases.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The real story is

First - it does not matter if WP7 is good, great or sh*t - it is not selling (and the reason why does not really matter)

Second - maybe all the operators are "offering" WP7 - not many are selling.

Third - there is a cost (signification) for the operators to offer a device. At some point the operators will say why am I wasting resources on a device that is generating almost no sales. Most business \avoid signification risk and this point WP8 is a very risky product..

And that is why my comment makes sense.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The real story is

WP7 might have been good in 2009, but not in 2012. THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT SELLING.

Compared to mid-high end Android phones, Windows Phone is still in the dark ages, abiet with a shiny UI. Cream on the turd it's commonly referred to...

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Re: The real story is

How are Android phones "better"? Exactly?

Bullet points please and note that "quad-core chips" is not better, it's just throwing hardware at a problem. Performance criteria only, please.

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Re: The real story is

Whenever you see an app being advertised, you always see the Apple App Store logo, you usually see the Google Play logo, you very rarely see the Blackberry Store logo and you almost never see the Windows Marketplace logo.

People don't write apps for Windows Phone because nobody buys the phones. People don't buy the phones because nobody writes apps for them. It is exactly the same network effect that works in Microsoft's favour in the desktop market working against them in the phone market.

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Re: The real story is

It's catch 22. You needs the apps to sell the phone and you need to sell phones to get the apps. It doesn't matter if it's better or worse. You need to either get the apps before release and/or have something radical that makes people want one even if there isn't the apps yet.

M$ could have done this but didn't. If I could have a phone/pad and take it home and plug into a screen/keyboard/mouse and suddenly use it as a normal computer, I'd buy one. They didn't.

All M$ has done is shoehorn a touch interface into a non touch PC environment, move everything around so you can't find anything anymore just so their three OSs will cosmetically look the same. Everyone will avoid it and stick to win7 (just like XP and Vista or 98 and ME) and avoid the phones because there is no apps.

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Re: The real story is

so, no answers except "less apps". But three downvotes anyway.

Interesting. I'm actually quite surprised it was only three downvotes - the hatesquad must be on holiday.

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Maybe we read that wrong

Maybe they want a carrier to exclusively carry WP8, banning all the other phones from their stores. It's a strategy which has worked for Microsoft before.

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Exclusivity?

Nokia can't compare to Apple as it can only hope ape the Foxconn half of the iPhone model. Does Noika have a Win8 exclusive with MS?

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wow microsoft + nokia. now apple really are scrwed

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Anonymous Coward

Microsoft is not helping Nokia !

Why so many people got this the wrong way round I don't know. MS has always been a dismal failure with mobile software.

One big reason was that they were not really interested. If anyone can remember Windows CE which later became Windows Mobile they did virtually no development on that for a whole decade. Nokia meanwhile had always been the number one mobile maker for both software and hardware (even now they still outsell every other vendor!).

MS needed a major rescue operation to try and get some recognition in the mobile world so naturally they approached the

best manufacturer on the planet and begged them to help out. This is a win-win situation for MS since if it failed they have a built-in scapegoat to blame, and also they will have destroyed Nokia thereby removing some competition.

Apple must be very grateful since they are not doing at all well these days with Android taking first place all over the world.

In the USA android has 20% more users than ios and similarly in the UK. Perhaps this is why we see even more desperate, and even ridiculous, legal actions being launched.

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Re: Microsoft is not helping Nokia !

>MS has always been a dismal failure with mobile software.

Eh? Windows Mobile had 42% of the smartphone market in 2007. It plummeted after 2007 obviously due to the UI being outdated, but you can't say they were always a failure.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Microsoft is not helping Nokia !

Hmm... see, I saw a report recently that had Windows Mobile in 2007 at 12% of 139 million sales... but that market was dominated by Symbian... Nokia dominated 2006 as well for smartphones. I don't really see where the 42% comes from, especially since the only time I've ever seen Windows Mobile was on PDAs. It wasn't really very popular, but then 'smartphones' weren't really very popular back then either.

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Re: Microsoft is not helping Nokia !

J'accuse! 42% of what island's smartphone market?

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Headmaster

Re: Microsoft is not helping Nokia !

... the only time I've ever seen Windows Mobile was on PDAs.

You may have, but it wasn't called "Windows Mobile" when it ran on PDAs, that version was called "Windows for Pocket PC". They changed the name (but not much else) when they put it on phones.

Do try to keep up at the back!

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Windows

J'accuse! 42% of what island's smartphone market?

Ask Danny Boyle.

England's "Green and Pleasant". As Boyle achieved (IMHO) a fuc*king miracle at opening ceremony of the Olympics, I'd nominate him to be at the helm of Nokia. It needs a visionary like him, not that twa*t Flop (or whatever his instantly forgettable name was).

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Facepalm

Hrm, Exclusivity deals with carriers.

I seem to remember these just serve to piss off the other carriers, which you are totally dependent on for all your other phones.

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FAIL

Exclusive deals?

More likely their "exclusive" boils down to nokia having to bribe the carriers to take the lumia handsets at all, and them only being able to afford to bribe a limited number of carriers...

After all, they haven't exactly been big sellers, and don't look likely to be in the future so operators won't be falling over themselves to offer them.

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Anonymous Coward

US$ 1.69 and in freefall

Well, it's the operators who have crushed Nokia because they don't want WP8 at any price, even a negative price.

This is widely known and even acknowledged grudgingly by Elop/Nokia.

This is not going to change any time soon.

Meanwhile in other news, the share price slides into oblivion, the NASDAQ delisting notice is already generated and the NOK money supply end-date can be calculated with a high degree of accuracy.

@AC: 14:19 GMT

"Apple must be very grateful since they are not doing at all well these days with Android taking first place all over the world."

"n" manufacturers combined earning zero profits combined in the sector does not really represent a big issue to APPL in the short term, and probably even in the medium term. Describing APPL's situation as "not doing at all well" demonstrates your "fandroid" and troll status all too clearly.

Dweeb

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Re: US$ 1.69 and in freefall

This isn't true either, I've just been to look and despite the market being down (the radio said it was insecurity about Spain and the Euro), Nokia shares are up

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Coat

TGTBT

So who wants to buy the rights to be the exclusive supplier of a platform and brand that doesn't sell - sound to good to be true !

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This isn't acurate

Nokia has often done exclusivity deals with networks. Indeed Orange was built on the "Nokia Orange", while the 2110 and 2146 were held back from other operators. ISTR the network 3 had an exclusive on the 7600.

I don't think it's a shrewd thing to do, but it's hardly aping Apple or a major volte face.

Simon

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It's not Nokia anymore

"Such a step would be a major break with tradition for Nokia,"

Nokia is now a Microsoft toadie desperately trying to copy Apple's business plan.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It's not Nokia anymore

Minor correction: Stephen Elop is a Microsoft toadie, and the entire Nokia board are his accomplices.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result.

People are just not buying Windows phones in significant numbers. Dump Windows and adopt something else. How much more indignity will Nokia take before it all breaks down? More layoffs? More diminished market presence? More stock price freefall?

Nokia does not need Microsoft to thrive. Microsoft, on the other hand, wants Nokia to be its exclusive hardware OEM. It's an asymmetrical relationship.

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saying it makes it true

When I was in my early twenties, I found that you get much better results if you say with the invite "it's going to be a big party. Everyone will be there". Curious, people come, and in a self-fulfilling way, everyone is there.

It sounds like Nokia is trying something similar. "Windows 8 phones are going to be so spectacular that we can leverage that by offering exclusive contracts and let the carriers battle it out for who sells this device". It's just another way to make everyone else think that everyone will want to one one. And who knows, the strategy may net them a few percent.

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Windows

"it's going to be a big party. Everyone will be there"

I think you hit the nail cleanly on the head with that comment, Ron. Perfect.

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Pirate

The Americanisation of Nokia continues it's acceleration towards the grave...

... RIP.

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Anonymous Coward

Really?

"Nokia may well be looking to Apple's iPhone model for inspiration – and could hope that by limiting who gets the phones it can kindle some of the excitement that accompanied the first iPhone in 2007".

Nokia has certainly limited the number of people who get its phones, but unfortunately for them it's not because the phones are desirable and scarce, or exciting.

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