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back to article UK.gov: Real time PAYE and new benefits systems WILL work

HMRC's real time information (RTI) project is "very much on track" to being a "successful government IT project", and universal credit is on time and on budget, exchequer secretary to the treasury David Gauke and welfare reform minister Lord Freud have said. The ministers' comments follow a recent report by the All-Party …

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FAIL

Yeah right.

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Anonymous Coward

Ummm - no, actually

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/transparency/exceptions_jan12_mar12.xls

Lines 2 & 4 of the first sheet, ICT - they asked for an extra £96m last year.

And paras 169/170 at page 40 of

http://www.appgtaxation.org/PAYE_at_the_Crossroads.pdf

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ummm - no, actually

Sorry; should have caveated that; I _think_ they asked for an extra £96m, but the exceptions spreadsheet (part of their "transparency program") doesn't actually specify units on the ICT page, so they could have been asking for an extra 96 computers. But knowledge of their other programs, and the curious tie in with the APPGT report, suggest it really is millions.

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"a successful government IT project".

We should have it stuffed!

What am I saying? It will be by the time it's done.

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WTF?

another 100m

OK UK Gov,

Lets say you pay a programmer 40k per year... so let say that costs double that at 80k per employee per year...

£100m gives you 1250 programmers for a year! or 125 for 10 years!!

Which is a lot, a hell of a lot... Just how do you justify a single program costing in this region!

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Re: another 100m

40k a year for a programmer? Not sure where you work but I think I need to move there.

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Mushroom

Re: another 100m

May I just say........Aspire. Yup ,Capgemini and Fujitsu. Need more be said?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: another 100m

> May I just say........Aspire. Yup ,Capgemini and Fujitsu. Need more be said?

Yes. Accenture.

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Only £115M

I'd like to see the cost/benefit analysis on this one...

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Bronze badge
Mushroom

Here come the haters...

... just a shame I didn't get in first to predict it. To be fair, there have been a number of public sector IT screw ups, but there are as many screw ups in the private sector - you just don't hear about them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you think you're so bloody clever, go and make your fortune in delivering public sector IT on time and on budget. Anyone? No, I didn't think so.

Interestingly, there are large government It projects that do go well, you just don't hear about them. Did you read about the IT system to support Employment and Support Allowance (replacement for Incapacity Benefit)? No you didn't, because it was on time and on budget (and incidentally I worked on it from start to finish).

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Mushroom

Re: Here come the haters...

And did you make your fortune in delivering public sector IT on time and on budget. No, I didn't think so.

The reason we care is because it's *our* bloody money. The private sector can pee away as much as it likes for our amusement.

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HMRC

I get the impression that many of the public sector IT failures are due to the fact some twat stands up in parliament and says 'the new infrastructure project will be complete in 8 weeks and the kit will be made entirely from recycled cardboard'.

It's then down to the poor bastards on the project to build their 8 month project into an 8 week period and somehow spin something on the cardboard issue.

Also, I've been informed that the civil service is set up a bit like the military, so if you are a certain 'level' of manager - let's say 'F6 level' - then you are capable of managing projects in excess of £100m. Never mind that your previous 10 years were spent administering the stationary contract, you're now running the new massive IT gig. :)

My fave HMRC story is still HMRC Ambition:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/18/hmrc_ambition/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: HMRC

While you're probably right about sign-off levels and the related risks, I suspect you're being a little unfair in this case on Stephen Banyard, who does have a good track record and the support of many senior figures outside HMRC for doing a good job over a long period of time - and think how much he'd be demanding in salary and pensions to run a £100m project in the private sector... however, he may well be very much the exception. (If you want to check his salary it's somewhere on the HMRC site; £120-140k IIRC)

But you're bang on the money about political pressures - RTI had been kicking around as a concept for ages, and should have been rolled out over 5 years, like pensions auto-enrolment, but the government wanted it for Universal Credit and so we got the insane timetable they're now struggling with.

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Anonymous Coward

The system will work fine, it's the punters that'll get it wrong - this is the govt., remember?

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FAIL

My money is on ............

........problems, problems, more problems.

Then some twat standing up in parliament trying to explain why it is costing more than it was supposed to and WILL do what it was supposed to do (someday, maybe).

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