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back to article It costs $450 in marketing to make someone buy a $49 Nokia Lumia

Every Windows phone Nokia sold in the US has been backed by a $450 slice of AT&T marketing cash, it's estimated. The mobile network threw its weight behind the handset maker's comeback device, the Lumia 900, with its biggest-ever advertising blitz for a phone: $150m, according to Ad Age. Nokia also spent $25m on Lumias for AT&T …

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Anonymous Coward

But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

That must be the niggling question for anyone stupid enough to actually want a Windows Phone.

Actually forget that, anyone that buys a Windows Phone clearly doesn't think upfront at all, and simply sees the $49 pricetag ( ignoring the $500 network charges of course).

Lumia isn't selling because of the upfront cost, so slashing it in half is pointless, they may as well keep it where it is. The problem is, Windows Phone 7.5 and 8 is VERY dated even in 2012, how you going to feel about it in 2014 when your contract finally expires???

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Facepalm

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Considering the WinPhone 8 will not work on ANY WinPhone 7.x device...why would anyone purchase any one of them now?

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JDX
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Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

If people who bought W7 phones are stupid then nearly all Android users are stupid because most are still on 2.x and will be forever.

This whole "it's useless if you don't get the next OS" argument is ludicrous.

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Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

thing is, android 2.x is perfectly fine. Cant think of any ics only apps off the top of my head. winpho 8 is a different kettle of fish. Most online services, links to win8 etc (i.e. the touted stuff) simply wont work out of the bag.

Flagship android phones have ics upgrade paths, not so for a supposed flagship winpho. I wouldnt expect my £50 PAYG android to have an upgrade path. I'd be pretty pissed if my galaxy S3 didnt.

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Mushroom

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Not WP7 is now out of date, development efforts switch to WP8, and WP8 apps won't work on WP7.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have the new burning platform.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

@Dan55 what you said is only true if they delete all WP7 apps when they release WP8.

If they stopped producing WP7 apps tomorrow, I'd be a little miffed, but as I basically have everything I want on a phone and way more besides, I don't really care.

I'll probably get a WP8 when it's released.

In other news, my Win3.1 machine wouldn't run W95 software, it didn't stop me continuing to use it for ages after W95 had been released.

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Meh

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Stupidity.

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Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Yes, but did you buy your 3.1 machine in 1994?

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Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Your win3.1 machine can be made to run w95. If you have a WP7 the only way to upgrade it is to throw it in the trash and buy a WP8.

Android on the other hand has none of these problems even if you can't upgrade the OS because 2.3 will run any app that 4.1 will. It doesn't suffer from the forwards incompatible API that Windows CE seems to have.

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Happy

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Flagship Android phones have ics upgrade paths. Really? The "Flagship" Nexus 1 ($529 at launch) launched in January 2010 with 2.1, and stalled at 2.3 in February 2011. By my count, that's 13 months of updates for a flagship Android phone.

My middle of the road WP7 LG Optimus 7 was free on a £25 per month contract. For that I will get 21 months of updates (when 7.8 arrives) and will have 3 months of 7.8 before I get a new 8 phone.

That's for an operating system that "just works"; that interacts immaculately with work's enterprise server; with native facebook and twitter support, with the apps I want and, most of all, with decent memory management and reliability.

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Headmaster

Re: "Most Android users on 2.x forever"

I guess that copy of ICS running on my two year-old SGS must be an hallucination, then?

This is Free Software, son, not Microsoft's or Apple's paranoid blobware.

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FAIL

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

Ahh this old chestnut again, when a WinFan can't win an argument, just bash the competition.

There *IS* a distinction, the Lumia is the top of the range windows phone, its like going into a store today and buying a top of the range computer, and when you get it home, you find out it won't run windows 8 when it is released shortly.

All top of the range Androids will get updates, along with alot of the cheaper ones. And the bigger problem is even the cheapest Android phone is more functional, heck the joke that is Skype on WP is pathetic for example.

So you see your comparison is bollocks my friend.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

"By my count, that's 13 months of updates for a flagship Android phone."

by the manufacturer perhaps, but if you feel you want ICS or Jellybean then the development community can provide a range of software to meet your needs. but since gingerbread is actually quite good and all the apps from the market still run most people won't feel fussed.

You can happily upgrade your LG all the way to 7.8, but it'll never be WP8 will it? and the apps will stop working, and development will cease.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: But will Windows Phone 8 owners be left out in the cold when Windows Phone 9 ships.

"That's for an operating system that "just works"; that interacts immaculately with work's enterprise server; with native facebook and twitter support, with the apps I want and, most of all, with decent memory management and reliability"

ahh, thanks for that! hilarious.

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!!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

A friend of mine bought a Nokia Lumia 800 as soon as they came out where he lives. He's been a devoted Nokia user for years, having bought a N73 or whatever they were flogging back then. I remember he bought a Nokia smart phone, with a slide-out keyboard, and a resistive touchscreen panel. He then tried to play Flight Control on it (this is some years back). It wouldn't go. I mean, it would load and all that, but the screen was just so horrible, it was just completey useless as a game, because in about ten seconds you would decide never to play it again because you would need 10 seconds just to guide a single plane to a landing strip.

Anyway, the Symbian software would crash several times a day (remember, anecdote. If your experience is at odds with his, well, that's another anecdote). However, despite the crap screen, he remained steadfast in his conviction that Nokia builds proper hardware. Fair enough.

So despite Apple and Samsung building some rather nice phones, he decides he's going to stand out from the crowd and get himself a Nokia Lumia. Well, I rather approve of being an induhvidual. I think your description of the Stockholm syndrome is spot-on, though maybe it's time for a the more current Espoo Syndrome, which has the advantage of confusing people (Espoo Syndrome, what's that?).

OK, WinPho 7 has a rather pleasing interface, and the screen is proper black where it needs to be black. But no multitasking, and an OS that has become extinct three months after he bought the phone, come on. Despite the fact that his phone will never run an update after the next one (and believe me, he was not pleased that I told him), and therefore the few apps that he has will be all that he has for the next two years, he remains a fan of Nokia.

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JDX
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Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

People are still writing apps for the iPhone 3GS and Android 2.x. So what's the big deal?

Note also that not everyone buys a smartphone for apps; I didn't.

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Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

"Despite the fact that his phone will never run an update after the next one"

I own a Samsung Galaxy Note that was recently updated to version 4.0, and I will be amazed if it receives another official update after that.

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Devil

Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

But its a phone.

Do you really multi-task? Maybe a call while you take notes.

Do you really need all those nifty $0.99 apps that are more toys and games to kill time?

Or do you need a simple calendar, email, and web that all work seamlessly.

IMHO, if you can make the phone a hotspot all those other gadgets can sit on your ipad or other device and just use your phone as a phone.

Nokia does have power management and antennas down, unlike their competition.

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Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

What do you mean writing apps for the 3GS? Apps are written to run under the iOS, and the 3GS runs the latest version. It's still a solid phone, and still miles better than the Samsung Galaxy because of the superior UI and fantastic range of quality apps.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

"Nokia does have power management and antennas down, unlike their competition"

Antenna maybe but it took them two firmware updates to get the battery life problems sorted on the Lumia 800.

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Happy

Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

"Do you really multi-task? Maybe a call while you take notes."

Yes, and vice versa: open the note-taking app while calling, or surfing the web. Works on my trusty Nokia N97 mini (with its long-obsolete Symbian version). I don't need to use multi-tasking every day, but when I need it, it is a life-saver.

It is a total mystery to me why multitasking was left out of WP7. After all it runs on hardware that is much, much more powerful than the 486 or Pentium I PC's that were used to run the original versions of Linux, OS/2 or Windows95 back in the early nineties.

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Thumb Up

Re: !!! Anecdotal Alert !!!

I half-agree.

Yes I really really do multitask (today whilst stuck in traffic, I was googling for an address, plonking that into my Google navigation, whilst taking a call (speakerphone), which seemlessly paused the audio-book I had playing). The ability to jump around between apps, whilst the OS nicely handles everything is why I like Android.

What niggles me about Android however is the fact that it doesn't integrate in all my work stuff. Now a large chunk of this is my zealous IT dept buggering up anything simple in the name of security, forcing somewhat 'adventurous' practices upon us, but fact is that Android really isn't geared up to be corporate despite the odd tweak here and there over the versions.

To my point. MS should just position their phones as corporate Blackberry replacements. RIM have just completely lost their minds and are diving into the abyss. They're gone and once the world realizes, middle-management will want new phones. MS phones don't just offer Outlook integration, they can offer you outlook integration from the company that brought you outlook. All that cloudy/office/sharepoint/metro guff they seem hellbent on pushing, if that was just extended to a locked down handset you could give to your employee - and they might actually enjoy owning? More importantly it would get more handsets out there, which is surely MS's biggest current issue (I did play with one, it was rather more lovely than I was expecting).

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Windphone users are like shooting fish in a barrel for AT&T, if they could just get them in...

"Do you really multi-task? Maybe a call while you take notes."

Multitasking became my #1 criterion, after being unable to use the skype app to receive calls on my iPhone 3, cause without multitasking, the Skype app couldn't run in the background to listen for incoming calls.

Aside from that, there's lots of messaging apps that need to run in the back ground, if you want to get your tells from people.

Sure, Windphone is fine if all you do is use the carrier's communication offerings. Thats why AT&T is plowing so much cash into advertising that shite... they would really like something other than Android, which gives people way too many possibilities to bypass their tollbooths.

AT&T could give a crap what phone you use - up until the phone allows you freedom that cuts down on their income. So, if they could get Micro$oft to succeed, it would be great for them, cause Microsoft's platform is locked down tight. And with lack of popularity, you don't even have the chance of someone jailbreaking it, cause its not worth the effort. So, for AT&T, Windphone users are like shooting fish in a barrel...

Few people are ready to get into that barrel, cause they already know how that goes...

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Oh how I wish the Lumia ran OS/2 Mobile!

As per title.

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Lumia sales were already sagging.

How can they sag when they didn't have any to start with?

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No room for 3rd ecosystem.

How many times must it be said? The only hope for Nokia is to cut its losses and go to Android.

Android running on Nokia hardware? I'd buy one. Windows phone? No thanks, I'd sooner have an iphone. (and I hate apple)

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Unhappy

Re: No room for 3rd ecosystem.

That ignores the fact that Nokia probably won't survive making another switch. They lost a load of goodwill and talent and took a pasting on the shares when they made the switch to MS, another U-Turn is probably not something they can pull off. Also I seem to recall el Reg reporting Nokia got a hefty bung from Microsoft ($1Bn?) when the switch announcement was made - that more than likely came with some nasty contractual obligations that tie them to Windows phones for a while. I seem to recall using the phrase "handcuffed to the deck of the Titanic" last time this was discussed.

The only hope for Nokia might have been to cut its losses and go with Android, but I think that time is long since past.

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FAIL

Re: No room for 3rd ecosystem.

I think many of us would have bought a Nokia had they gone Android, the whole world seems to understand than, except for two people, Stephen Elop and Steve Balmer.

Someone want to wake them up????

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Re: No room for 3rd ecosystem.

No Barry, they understood if far too well. If Nokia had gone Android that would have been a devastating blow for every other OS (except IOS). WP would be dead within days *because* so many people would run full tilt towards Nokia-Android.

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Unhappy

Re: No room for 3rd ecosystem.

Android? You can bet that there's a plan B that involves making an Android phone. Even if Elop doesn't know about it.

Elop is actually a shrewd guy, he realised that Nokia didn't wanted to put itself in the middle of an ecosystem that would generate a lot more revenue than being just another Android maker. Windows was a high-risk but high-reward move, Android would have been low-risk, low-reward move. If Nokia wanted to regain the dominant position in the industry that it once had, then the higher risk approach was the only way to do it.

However, I think what happened to Symbian was a mistake. Instead of killing it off, Elop should have stuck with the previous plan that moved Symbian downrange to where Series 40 is. Instead, Nokia tried to add features to Series 40 to make it more like Symbian. But as a result Symbian sales collapsed when they could have provided decent sales numbers if done properly.

But now it's almost the perfect storm - Samsung are eating into the low-end market, the midrange market collapsed with Symbian, the higher-end Windows phones are looking like a dead end. I feel that Android is about the only choice if Elop wants to have any business left at all..

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Devil

Re: No room for 3rd ecosystem.

Yup, I would have been in the queue for a nokia android - I mean, assuming they had still gone ahead and ditched maemo/meego.

Nokia still says "quality handset" to some of us, and I believe they could have turned that into a reputation as a high-quality European android manufacturer. But nobody wants windows phone.

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Anonymous Coward

Please don't insult OS/2

by comparing it with Windows Phone.

In fact you'd be surprised by the number of OS/2 systems that enable many everyday things... (often inside VMs since there's no drivers for modern hardware)

Serious stuff too like banking and cash machines, air traffic control, supermarket tills, train control systems, power grids...

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Re: Please don't insult OS/2

I'm still running an OS/2 virtual machine, mainly because I haven't yet gotten around to re-writing a bit of software I wrote many years ago. At the time it was quicker to just set it up on a VM and because it works so well it's near the bottom of the priority list of jobs.

As for Windows phones, I prefer to avoid them.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Please don't insult OS/2

@AC I loved OS/2, but your information is out of date, it's not been used in these systems since after the "absolutely, we really aren't going to support it any more, not matter how much cash you bung us" date a few years back.

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Vic
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Re: Please don't insult OS/2

> it's not been used in these systems since

The Santander cash machine in Bitterne Precinct in Southampton runs OS/2 Warp. I doubt it is the only one.

I watched it boot a few months back...

Vic.

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Re: Please don't insult OS/2

I'm sure there are still some museum artefacts out there, but most cash machines these days run XP Embedded.

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Re: Please don't insult OS/2

OS/2 sightings...

2008, Puno, Pero, cash machine. I watched it reboot, hoping it would spit out my cash card... nope.

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OS/2 yells, "I'm not dead!"

It's just changed its name to eComStation. Just got the newsletter today about the upgrades to run it on modern hardware.

(Seems eCom leased the rights to maintain and distribute it when IBM dropped support.)

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Mushroom

Earnings...

I'm expecting a blood bath

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Anonymous Coward

For $450...

... they could have thrown in a free iPhone.

They'd have sold millions of Lumias that way.

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Stop

Re: For $450...

But they would have had to pay to advertise that deal...

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Vic
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Re: For $450...

> But they would have had to pay to advertise that deal...

No, they wouldn't...

Vic.

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I nearly bought one

The 900 looked good and I've been very impressed with the plays I've had with WP8. The only reason I didn't was because I decided to hang on a few weeks when the WP8 rumours started and then when the announcement was made and it essentially ticked all my boxes I binned the notion off. I tend to have a phone for a couple of years at a time at least so where's the sense in not waiting for WP8?

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Linux

Re: I nearly bought one

" where's the sense in not waiting for WP8?"...

There's no sense in waiting for that, it'll be a Microsoft version 1 product...

Historically, we know you have to give Microsoft till version 3 to get it right.

So, you can safely buy an Android or Crapple phone that actually works now, and hang on to that, till WindPhone 10 gets released (assuming they release 8, 9, 10...)

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Anonymous Coward

Windows phone == OS/2?

Well, for a long time I've said that iOS/iPhone was the smartphone world's Windows 95 .... might not be the best technically but was "good enough" and all the software in the apps store made it a compelling choice.

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JDX
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It costs $450 in marketing to make someone buy a $49 Nokia Lumia

Oh come on. This is Daily Mail style reporting. It doesn't cost $450 to make a $49 sale... it costs $450 to sell someone a contract costing $50+ per month for two years. A non-contract 900 is selling for $400.

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Gold badge

Re: It costs $450 in marketing to make someone buy a $49 Nokia Lumia

Eadon,

That's not his point. The point is that the phone cost isn't the $99 now discounted to $49. That's just the upfront cost the network chooses to charge you. The actual cost is the difference between the total of contract prices and upfront prices for different phones. So the article gives us none of the info we'd need to know to tell if these figures are all that horrible or not.

It's therefore fair to criticise the article (and headline) for being a bit crap.

On the other hand, the figures are still dire. Supposedly the Lumia 900 was selling really well in the US, according to Nokia and the networks. If the sales figures of 350,000 quoted are true, then that's pretty bad news, and could be the end of Nokia. Has it got enough cash to survive long enough to sell WinPho 8? If it can even be sold...

Obviously if you miss your sales targets by a mile on something you've heavily advertised, then the per unit advertising costs are going to look horrible.

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