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back to article HTC bags UK win in patent war with Apple

A UK court has decided that not only did HTC not infringe on four patents Apple brought against it, but three of them are invalid. HTC was first to file in the UK, trying to invalidate patents that were already at issue in the firms' cases in Germany, but Apple quickly counter-sued over patents dealing with multi-touch, photo …

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Good!

Let's hope these are the first of many patents (on all sides) to be overturned "because they were obvious, in the common knowledge or had been done before".

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Good!

There's just too many patents and too few people to administer them.

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Meh

You'd think

The time has come to shake hands and start making up with each other.

Making up is much more fun you know!

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Apple said it had no additional comment other than its stock reply that "competitors should create their own technology, not steal ours"."

I'm sorry Apple, but judge just ruled that 75% of your patents in this case are invalid and the only one you could have wasn't infringed, which tends to suggest that you're not exactly creating your own technology.

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Meh

So.... according to Apple -

the courts are right when they rule in favour of Apple - but when they don't - they are wrong?

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JDX
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Just how the game is played.

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You'd understand if you were a fanboy.

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g e
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We are Apple

No. You are obvious and invalid. Goodbye.

Fap-Fap-Fapple

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Yay for the UK patent office!

Jolly good shop, chaps!

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Facepalm

Umm...

The idiots at the UK patent office granted these patents to Apple. It's the court that has effectively decided that they shouldn't have been in the first place. Please don't give praise to the UKPO - they're the enablers.

Perhaps what companies like Apple should do is sue patent offices that grant them dud patents and cost them legal fees. Then the dummies who work there might have some incentive to actually investigate cases of prior art or simply reject patents that are, y'know, too obvious.

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@Keep Refrigerated Re "....don't give praise to the UKPO....."

I think that when he posted "yay for the UK patent office" he may not have been being entirely serious, hmm? You know, the concept known as "satire".

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Anonymous Coward

We really need to get past this stupid patent trolling phase we are going through... there is really no need to patent such trivial pieces of technology, and software patents in general are just a silly idea... plenty of games develop and adapt from each other, or are we just waiting for Activision to file a patent for first person shooters? The mobile sector could learn plenty from the gaming sector in this regard, as the only losers are punters and the main winner is lawyers.

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Ahhh a ruling that makes sense

At long last, happily from the UK for a change :D

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Anonymous Coward

Further confirmation that Google runs the UK

As today's article said.

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Anonymous Coward

Open Letter

Dear Apple

If you want to do business in the UK please remember to play nice and respect our rules.

We have a high level of pedantry and you really don't want us looking that closely do you?

As sincerely as an Englishman can be

The UK

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Open Letter

Wow, really... Imagine what they would find if the UK looked into HTC..

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Re: Open Letter (@dx)

What would they find?

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Re: Open Letter

Its not a Win for HTC its a win for all companies :) Who cares who looses when everyone gains :) Apple loosing is just a bonus as they are by a long way the biggest problem at the moment. If you cant beat them sue them with patents that should never have existed. Like the ones banning Samsung atm in america.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Open Letter (@dx)

Maybe THUCK

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Open Letter

I don't subscribe to this letter. When was the last time ANY company played nice in the UK?

Your hallucinating on your own fandroid fantasies.

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WTF?

Re: Open Letter

Well I don't get the whole "in the UK remember to play nice and respect our rules" angle either, but I've only been here for 15 years. Does this only apply to foreign companies?

After all, British Telecom also have an ongoing patent case against Android (details here) .

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Re: Open Letter

You're right, we are very pedantic which is why...

As sincerely as an Englishman can be

The UK

*SLAP* The UK isn't England </pedantic>

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Re: David 138

You get an upvote from me for what you said, but please *please* lose that extra "o" in the future!

It really grates to see it running around loose like that!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Open Letter

You can't call them British Telecom as that is racist. BT is now short for BT

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Happy

Re: Re: Open Letter

"....The UK isn't England...." Well, the important bits are. To be more precise, the UK is largely what is left of the ENGLISH Empire. Thank you, you may return to your serf activities now.

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Flame

Re: Open Letter

What the heck have you been smoking? "Racist"? What utter rot and nonsense.

Telephonic communications in Great Britain and Northern Ireland were originally run by the General Post Office (GPO), which hived off the telephone business to "Post Office Telephones". When the GPO was privatised (a hideous decision that was just plain wrong in my view) - excuse me, when the telephones were "deregulated", it was named "British Telecom". Before long, it was being abbreviated by all and sundry as "BT", and they actually renamed it as "BT" a sort while later, which was more of a fait accomplis than anything remotely sinister. There y'go. History in a nutshell.

"Racist" my arse.

Muppit.

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Re: Open Letter

They'd find bugger all. HTC isn't the bully that Apple is.

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Happy

Take note america!

Thank god the UK justice system works....unless its deporting Terroists.

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Re: Take note america!

David138: "Thank god the UK justice system works....unless its deporting Terroists."

... or punishing twits ... or not punishing multi-gazillion pound fraudsters. But this is a jolly good result.

I'm interested that Apple felt able to say what they said afterwards . If I'd taken someone to court for shoplifting and, on the basis of the evidence, the case had been dismissed, I think it would be frowned upon if I were to come out and say "See, it just shows people can steal from me with impunity".

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Thank Christ

"The judge ruled that the three other patents were invalid – either because they were obvious, in the common knowledge or had been done before."

That's what irks it for me. What Apple really need is "the mother of all" enemas.

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Anonymous Coward

The Big Lie 2.0

"competitors should create their own technology, not steal ours"

Apple think that if they say it often enough and loud enough they can convince the world they invented [anything they say]...

This ruling is a step in the right direction, pity it will probably be ignored in other jurisdictions

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

you're not fooling anyone either..

To say Apple did not have a strong influence in today's smartphones is what's called blinded by belief.

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Coat

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

We all learn all the time, and Apple has learned a lot from Microsoft.

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Pint

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

From Microsoft you say...

Could you expand on what exactly, or do you mean they learnt from Microsoft how not do things?

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FAIL

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

Smart phones existed before the iPhone,

I thought iPhone was a not so pretty copy of the LG Prada phone but with a bit more oomph..

take a look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LG_KE850_Prada_Hauptmen%C3%BC.jpg

I had been using smart phones long before this, and had been installing apps long before this, apple just refined the tech for the non technical public.. And that was why I never owned one, it was too restricted and still is...

Apple invented nothing that wasn't bleeding obvious, they DESIGNED a nice phone, and I will admit they do design nice things... BUT imho unless you make an exact copy that you plan to sell AS an iPhone, how can you sue on a design? oh its black with rounded corners, shock horror!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

Nobody said that Apple aren't an influence, even a positive one sometimes, but you don't have to pay to be influenced by someone.

There's a difference between being influenced by the Beatles (Oasis) and performing their songs (Bootleg Beatles).

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Stop

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

Have you used or seen a LG Prada phone? Only people who didn't use one say that.

The Prada was not only much smaller (too small for Internet browsing) but didn't have a real operating system, unlike the iPhone. It was buggy as hell, only ran selected Java MIDP apps and , worse of all, the Web browser was a joke.

Those were also crippling features of other phones at the time and why the iPhone was a wild success: Excellent desktop-quality browser, super intuitive touch screen ( no pens), great screen. And a cherry on top - no carrier skinning.

Individually they seem now seem obvious, but back then there was nothing obvious about the combination, nor was there anything like it on the market. That's why it took everyone by surprise. Nokia, RIM, Microsoft all just could't believe it, as shown by their respective lack of success thereafter.

Refined the tech for the non technical public is complete bullshit. Apple was first in making a successful, usable, Unix-based phone. The failures upon failures of previous Linux phones are there to reinforce this, for those of us who saw them.

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Facepalm

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

But you don't say the 'first UNIX based phone', you qualify it with 'successful' and 'usable'. Thus it was not the first, so cannot claim patent or copyright. A failed product can still be prior art.

And I could be a pedant over your use of UNIX, and also ask why a smart phone needs to be running a UNIX like OS (think PalmOS, Nokia Communicator or Windows Mobile devices for other devices that were clearly smart before the iPhone). Apple produced a good product, but not one that was especially innovative.

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Re: The Big Lie 2.0

They have no clue about mobile industry. If they did, they would know htc got their fame for making win mobile junk usable with their ui inventions.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The Big Lie 2.0

"Thus it was not the first, so cannot claim patent or copyright."

It can when many of the patents it uses that are held by the manufacturer are from the 90's.

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Re: The Big Lie 2.0

No True Scotsman - what's a real operating system? The original Iphone couldn't run apps full stop!

Sure the competition wasn't perfect, but neither was the original Iphone. And does this mean that today's Iphone's aren't smartphones, because the screens are tiny compared to the competiton?

The original Iphone also wasn't a wild success - it was massively outsold by other smartphone platforms (Symbian especially). Only with time did sales of the platform gradually increase.

No pens? You don't have to use pens on other touchscreens. But it's an advantage if you can - like on today's Galaxy Note.

"as shown by their respective lack of success thereafter."

What, you mean Nokia outselling Apple to this day, with even Symbian alone outselling Iphone for the duration of its lifetime?

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Re: The Big Lie 2.0

Granted it wasn't a slick as iOS, but Windows Mobile has been powering smartphones long before Jobs impregnated the Unix under the MacOS skin and produced the spoiled little brat that is iOS.

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Trollface

Google was wise to buy off the current government.

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Are they that stupid?

Htc doesn't use "slide to unlock" at first place. They use a ring, which you can even invoke other tasks right after unlocking.

They should have checked youtube first. I mean if they are so elite to check a phone shop.

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Raz
Meh

The only good thing Apple really did with the iPhone

was to smash the carrier control over the phone software, ending the days of the feature phones. Apple liberated the phone. The UI gimmicks, "slide to unlock" and so on, big deal.

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Re: The only good thing Apple really did with the iPhone

"was to smash the carrier control over the phone software, ending the days of the feature phones. "

What do you mean by this? Feature phones still exist. And they have operating system software that isn't controlled by the carrier (e.g., Nokia's S40). A carrier might add extra stuff on top, but they still do this with smartphones today. The distinction between "feature" and "smart" phones is completely arbitrary anyway, basically a marketing issue. It was introduced around 2004 I guess so there was a way to promote the low end Internet and app phones (which really were smartphones), whilst still justifying a higher price for the high end phones by calling them "smart".

Smartphones haven't got more common than feature phones since 2004, it's just that the definition has changed, so that now increasingly lower priced phones are marketed as "smart" rather than "feature".

Meanwhile, Apple released a non-smart phone that couldn't even run apps, yet marketed it as "smart" anyway.

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WTF?

There is only one answer to this stupidity ...

and that is to have a WTO-like patents agreement where the rules are internationally standardised.

Remember, it is the CONSUMER who is getting shafted by Apple, etc. so ending these court activities will only make it better for US.

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