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BMW and Toyota are to work together on the development of fuel cell and electric powertrains, the two automotive giants said today. Neither firm went into any detail about the R&D programme, but the two companies' principals were keen to stress how the agreement is good for both: BMW gets access to Toyota's work on hybrids and …

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Why on earth

Would BMW want toyota diesel engines? Aren't the current BMW ones superior? Given that BMW regularly tops the MPG leagues with its diesels what do the toyotas do that the BMW's can't?

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Re: Why on earth

I would imagine that in this case "prosaic outcomes too, such as BMW selling Toyota Europe diesel engines from 2014" might mean BMW selling engines TO Toyota, rather than FROM Toyota.

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Unhappy

Re: Why on earth

BMW diesels may top MPG leagues, but those are created following slightly artificial EU enforced rules. Toyota's road figures tend to be closer to the official test figures, or better. A fact I didn't appreciate until it was too late!

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Pint

Re: Why on earth

My previous message may have got lost so...

Firstly, yes it is the case that Toyota will be using BMW engines and BMW getting Toyota hybrid tech (as Toyota are undeniably leaders in this). At least that what the other reports on the subject suggest.

Secondly, BMW diesels may be thirstier but they probably in most cases have better drive-ability (a very important concept)

Thirdly, hybrids tend to not do so well in the real world either. We have quite a few as company cars, doing loads of motorway miles where their consumption is horrendous, lugging all that dead weight around. The lower CO2/Fuel consumption means you can get more extras.

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Re: Why on earth

maybe Toyota can make them cheaper.

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Re: Why on earth

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that converting to a hybrid is more advantageous for a large heavy vehicle which gets low city economy than a small light one which already gets good economy; and at the same time, less of a disadvantage for a large heavy vehicle which already weighs a lot than a small light vehicle which would be affected by the extra weight (and size of the hybrid stuff). Yet, the market for tiny hybrids continues to outstrip the market for big hybrid trucks and SUVs. Until you get to locomotives, of course.

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Re: Why on earth

My (personal) experience with BMW diesels vs others are that BMW engines can be driven at their rated MPG, but you need to be careful with the throttle. The problem is, the torque and torque range of the engines encourages a driving style which is more on the active side, which again kills the MPG.

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Anonymous Coward

Hybrid don' t do as well as diesels on the motorways, but overall on mixed driving I think Hybrids do well..

Recent;y a colleague of mine hired a Toyota Auris Hybrid, he spent £100 doing 1300 miles. ( work that out!) on his holidays.

If hybrid didn;tg work, Toyota wouldn;t be selling them.. now you see other manufactuirers getting into the Hybrd game e.g. hybrid diesels

Diesels as a whole need turbo to make it efficent, and staged filters to get it clean, they often need s good clesn out to keep them efficient. my constant motorway drving keeps it burning efficiently, if you do short school runs/city driving, you'll never get thme working efficiently...

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Diesel range extender

Now the best possible hybrid would either be a diesel+Battery hybrid (diesels tend to give the best economy at cruise speeds to charge the battery). However you do need a heavier engine and a turbo for when the diesel needs to drive the wheels directly and provide the power required.

However even better would be a full electric car with the diesel generator just charging the batterys rather than driving the drive train directly.

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Anonymous Coward

But will they still be driven by tw@ts? ;)

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