back to article Ministers consult public on 'opt in for smut' plans

Imagine a future where you are demanded to declare to your ISP that you wish to view pornography online? If ministers get their way, broadband customers could soon be required to opt-in to being, er, serviced by X-rated content on the internet. A 10-week public consultation document on parental controls was released by the …

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Another reason

to buy shares in VPN providers.

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Anonymous Coward

Who decides

What sites to block? The ISP? The Government?

Have you ever seen the filters at work, they block sites that have no connection with smut, anything with the slightest hintnof it. Check out school filters and you will see what I mean.

WTF should I have to opt in if I can just as easily opt out, are they trying to shame people or embarrass them?

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Anonymous Coward

Go nanny someone else

I have children, I supervise them on the Internet, I discuss with them what should or shouldn't be done, I use filters on their accounts.

That's how it should be done

Am I in the minority here?

Let the State nanny the feckless twits but stay away from me, I'm old enough not to need a nappy changed.

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Bronze badge

Re: Go nanny someone else

That's how it should be done

That's your view.

Mine is to trust them to use common sense, come to me (or anyone else with whom they feel comfortable) with any issues and otherwise let them do what they want.

Thta's how I was brought up, and I thank my parents for it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Go nanny someone else

1. You are the majority on this site, but this is not the Daily Mail forum.

2. You cannot do anything about the Conservative part of the coalition openly behaving as if the government will fall tomorrow so they need the support of a kingmaker. As gagging on a wrinkly antipodean anatomy bits is no longer on the menu, they now have the urge to ask the Mirror group if they would like to have it with ice-cubes or with hot coffee.

3. The email address of the consultation is: ParentalInternetControls.CONSULTATION@education.gsi.gov.uk

I suggest you emphasize that the biggest _DANGER_ to the children from Internet is that they will spend 12 hours a day in front of the screen devolving into obese jelly blobs and doing none of their homework too.

It does not matter what level of smut do you ban - this does not solve this problem. This is the "education" department conducting the inquiry so theoretically they have a duty of care with regards to both of these. A good, blunt, "sledgehammer style" emphasis that they will fail it in any case _EXCEPT_ giving the controls to the parent may be one way to deal with this particular bout of "Sir, do you like it with ice-cubes".

Unfortunately, you have to be prepared for a long fight here - if this idiocy fails, there will be other parts of the Conservative government portion to continue in acting as if elections are tomorrow. Our "friend" Ed "the Culture Secretary", comes to mind, there are other.

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Re: Who decides

lol the content filter at work is now blocking the comments thread... presumably because someone mentioned pr0n.

However, I put the filter on the network. I can tweak it and bypass it if it is being stupid, I don't need to ask any ones permission.

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Just the latest

in a long tradition of those who rule us assuming that they know, better than we do, what is good for us.

If I am the parent of a child and I have access to the internet it is my responsibility - not my ISP's and certainly not the government's - to make sure my child's internet habits are both safe and sane. Can they access the internet outside of my control? Certainly - in exactly the same way as they can choose to wander across a six-lane motorway outside of my control. I would, however, have made some effort to help them understand why that would be a bad idea.

I do not support any effort on the part of the government to make me opt-in to a freedom. I do not have to opt-in to anything to be allowed to read any book I choose. I do not wish to opt-in to anything to view any internet content that I choose.

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Stop

Re: Just the latest - know, better than we do

It isn't just knowing better.

Politicians are are useless dishonest scumbags who we increasingly hate and worse (in their eyes) ignore. They are mostly a waste of space and we know it.

They continue to try to make the state responsible for every aspect of our lives because it makes the state and them as its masters feel important and needed.

I can't look at a politician without feeling the urge to whack them round the head with a bit of 2 by 4.

Do you have to be human to run for parliament? Given the choice I would vote for a broom handle because it would do less damage than your average politician and especially Claire (won't you think of the children) Perry.

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Megaphone

Re: Just the latest

@John...

I absolutely agree. this sort of measure only generates a sense of security... surely it is better to educate people on this.

And i know that many people on here have a healthy dislike for MPs (e.g. "JP19"), but some MPs (possibly even most?) do try to do what they think is the right thing.

if you don't think that they are representing your views or you feel that their definition of "right thing" is not aligned with yours, then write to them ( www.writetothem.com). You might even get a reply.

of course, it is a lot easier to sit on the side and whine as opposed to doing something. just like it is easier for the parents who don't know or care about making sure their child is safe online to let the state give them a false sense of security as opposed to learning about it.

just don't criticise someone for doing one of those things while you do the other...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Just the latest

Saw this...

"She argued that a "worrying" pattern had emerged."

and thought this...

"that trend being grown adults being pandered to by the nanny state and not being held responsible for the upbringing of their own f*cking children"

Jesus, this can't be held responsible, think of the children bullshit is seriously getting on my tits.

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Facepalm

Re: Just the latest

Exactly, and what next? Requiring Government permission to buy my business' catalogue of bondage gear? Maybe I'll have to register with HM Inspector of Porn and get a licence?

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Happy

Re: Just the latest

Yeah but just think, the exams could be fun to take!

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Stop

Re: Just the latest

"Surely it is better to educate people on this". Damn right it is, but the education system of this nation (all sections of it) is broken because it itself has become a politicised target-driven tool to "measure" teachers and educators by and not actually a channel for enlightening the populous.

Just like other creeping nanny measures such as speed cameras, minimum alcohol pricing, smoking bans and labelling of 'unhealthy' foods this is a reaction by government to a minority of the population who they perceive as too stupid to look after themselves (the government's own fault because of their crap education system) so a broad brush approach is used to be seen to deal with them.

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Re: Just the latest

"And i know that many people on here have a healthy dislike for MPs (e.g. "JP19"), but some MPs (possibly even most?) do try to do what they think is the right thing."

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I don't want them to do what they think is the right thing. I want them to do what is the right thing and when they don't know what the right thing is I want them to do nothing.

That doesn't happen because they can't justify their existence by doing nothing and appearing not to care by doing nothing is a much bigger sin than doing something which makes matters worse. That earns them a pat on the head for caring and at least trying. A root problem with our political system and media that drives them.

In any case I don't believe many do what they think is right They do what they think voters think is right or, what they think they can convince voters to think is right with spin and lies. They are so out of touch with voters (and especially with those that might vote if they didn't think all politicians were useless wankers so choosing one or the other is pointless) that they have little idea of what voters really think is right.

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Anonymous Coward

Time to block Wikipedia...

Some of what's on there is just disgusting...

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Re: Time to block Wikipedia...

I know, but kids have to learn about David Cameron some time.

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Silver badge

Re: Time to block Wikipedia...

I realise you're joking but they're probably not going to block Wikipedia. What a lot of people seem to have missed is that they will be blocking most torrent sites as they host at least a few porn torrents/magnet links. All switched on by default of course.

"Honestly love, I've not been doing the five finger shuffle whilst you picked the kids up from school. I only disabled the Official UK Home Broadband Expert Certified Pervert Filter so I could download the new Avengers movie... What do you mean you're going to go stay with your sister for a few days?"

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Facepalm

Re: Time to block Wikipedia...

"No love, I was shopping for ideas about your birthday present and the Selfridges site was down! Alright I'll get the sleeping bag from the spare room..."

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Anonymous Coward

There's a certain inevitablity about all this

It's as if it's already been decided what is going to happen and this exercise is a bit of whitewash. If they get the result they want it will be ovely publicised, if they don't they'll quietly spin it to make it look like they did. If I were living in the UK it'd be getting close to the point where I'd go lay down in the street and shoot myself.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There's a certain inevitablity about all this

It is inevitable. To some extent we will live to regret the News of the Screws scandal.

As a result of this, the government has done a volte-face and is taking political strategy advice from the Mirror group. Just shows how weak do they feel so they need a support of a "kingmaker" not just in the run-up to an election but on a day-to-day basis.

Given this as a choice (and its consequences) I would much rather have the "hacks" in News of The Screws continue hacking the phones of muppets who do not know how to set a voicemail PIN or turn off divert to voicemail altogether.

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Really though?

Does Google really make money from porn? I don't think porn companies can advertise with Google or receive adverts on their sites...

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Re: Really though?

"Does Google really make money from porn? I don't think porn companies can advertise with Google or receive adverts on their sites..."

The porn companies don't have to advertise with Google. Google owns YouTube. Porn companies post very soft core videos on YouTube, hoping to attract customers to their own sites, and Google serves up ads for all and sundry, including its own browser. Google may also get paid if punters click through to the porn sites just as they would from sponsored results on the search engine..

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Re: Really though?

doesn't Google make money from searches??? a simple image search finds thousands of websites I would never have found other wise...

and yes, the old adage...

Only 50% of people look at porn.... the other 50%? ........................ they are lying of course....

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Anonymous Coward

There will be trouble

Various behaviours are in us, as children. We can't turn them off.

For me, it was bondage.

If I could have had access to information which would have explained those feelings and helped put my mind at rest, then a whole load of emotional and mental turmoil could have been nipped in the bud.

As it was, it wasn't. I was swinging in between a rock and a hard place. Either beating myself up for having these feelings I couldn't control, or else getting myself in to some stupifyingly dangerous self bondage positions. I could have died.

Whomever has their finger on the filth button, needs to be aware of these things. If the schools aren't teaching it, or have open doors where children can talk through, in confidence, these kinds of emotionals that are inside them, then fair enough; but the Internet has opened a life saving resource in some aspects and the baby just might go out with the bath water.

Next time someone says, "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children," I'll give them a black eye and a loud leacture on what effect biggoted, unrealistic expectations actually has on our children.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: There will be trouble

"Various behaviours are in us, as children. We can't turn them off.

For me, it was bondage."

New keyboard please!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

I fail to see why that caused you to require a replacement of your primary digitisation device.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

AC I feel your pain.

I lost a very good friend as he did not know how to deal with issue he had as a young teen who was Transgenderd, he ended up over dossing when he was 16. I was aware of his issue and tried to help him but he came from a very Religious home and could not talk to the people who he needed to talk to his parents, or access information online.

It was a very sad day when he killed himself.

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Re: There will be trouble

The problem is, when people "think of the children", they don't [i]actually[/i] think of the children, they just think about how they can avoid awkward conversations with them. And then bad shit like this happens.

ACs - I have a lot of LGBT friends I speak to online in a very close community and I think I can say that if it hadn't been for that community and the access they have to it, a lot of them would have followed a similar path.

*proudly ticks "I am a disgusting pervert rather than a morally conflicted prude" box*

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

That's a heartbreaking shame as there is plenty of resource out there, including this - http://www.ts1change.com/ - which is a now defunkt group because in the late 90's, society had changed to the point where they weren't needed any more. However, the political arm, "Press For Change," continues on.

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Gimp

You don't need a new keyboard at all

The "OP" is talking sense. Often things of that nature do start early in one's life in the emotional sense.

It's stupid goventards confusing porn with sexuality once more in the same way they often confuse porn with nudity. It's pretty hypocrital consider the fucked up shit a lot of them get up to.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

When people say think of the Children you are right by saying the want to avoid difficult conversations with them, part of being a parent is the difficult moments having hard conversations with your child and helping them come to terms with how the world works and the child's place in that world. If you avoid it your child can make the wrong choice (not for you for them) and possibly end up Like my friend who in the end felt so isolated he chose to kill himself.

I was lucky as a teen and my parents where open, if I needed to talk to them I could and they helped me become who I am today. Sure they might have felt uncomfortable about talking about some issues (sex, drinking, etc) but they did and I am now a adult who is comfortable with himself and others who is happy and productive. You can't give your children a better start in life than being there for them, and talking with them when they need to.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

You got trouble my friend.

With a capital T

and that rhymes with P

and that stands for Porn.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

I quote from "Avenue Q" who did a show in London not long ago...

"The Internet is for Porn.

The Internet is for Porn.

Grab your d**k and double click.

Porn, Porn, Porn."

Look it up - I think it's on You Tube somewhere.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

I think it was unintentional hilarity. But if it wasn't, top marks for writing style!

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Bronze badge

Re: There will be trouble

the 'special' thing about bondage is... It mostly does NOT involve nudity!!! that is why so many, many places, net and RL, have no problems with it all... :)

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Childcatcher

Re: There will be trouble

" they don't actually think of the children, they just think about how they can avoid awkward conversations with them"

Exactly - its never been about protecting children. It would seem that some seem to believe that children are totally asexual until they're say 16 or 18, when they are then suddenly interested in ("normal") sex.

3 cheers for pervs everwhere :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

With all due respect, it's not a new keyboard but a new brain that you need. Actually, a second-hand maggot-infested brain from some rotting corpse would be a considerable improvement on your current state.

Not the same AC as above, btw, just passing through.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

I'm sorry, but I had to read your post twice to digest it after seeing your confession about bondage and then stating you were "between a rock and a hard place" - it got me all tied up in knots.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

Sadly, Mortality is defined by old values.

When my friend kill himself, he left a note that I was sadly one of the few to read once (it would have been beneficial to many people to read), what he said without quoiting verbatim out of respect and out of his parents wish for anonymity, And he wrote-

"I am now dead, I am not a person but a persons, I am both K*****, and K****, I can not live with sin and I can no longer live a lie so i am forced to die at my choosing"

I as I have said attempted to help him with the issues he had, so did a select few others he trusted. But his lack of information and lack of support from people outside his own age and wisdom ended up with his death, and I know this might sound like I am paying undue homage to the dead, he would have changed the world as he was a brilliant person. He could apply himself to any field in school and was the top of the class (oddly not in RE or French but he excelled in Spanish.).

The last I will say of him (on the reg) is this, I miss him dearly as a friend and I still at the summer BBQ cook a Burger for him, not out of respect but true sorrow that he can not be there with me to munch down on it and share a beer. And I hope one day his parents can and will talk about what happened (I keep in contact with them, out of respect) and help others.

I miss you my Friend and I still hold you close to my heart.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There will be trouble

I feel that.

I too developed an unusual fetish as a young child due being a late developer in the bathroom dept. It was something I could never dicuss with anyone, I knew it was not what was considered "normal". The shame and humilation of carrying guilty secret around of years, you hide it but the monster that sleeps at the back of your mind is always there an never goes away. There was no real internet as such until I got to around the age of 19, I spent my teenage years trying to repress my interests in wearing certain garments.

I got on with my life, got married and settled down. One day my wife caught me looking up information about my particular proclivity and years of emotional turmoil were unleashed in a few hours, I was lucky that she knew I was a good person and this was just an unusual side to my character. With the aid of information available online from those who practice it to those who've studied it, I was able to show her exactly what the interest was, how it started and how I felt the same a thousands of other people. It's now something very special we share together, I don't have much need to go online these days about it.

It's not about pornography, it's about sexuality. The moral guardians that rule over us think that unless you have sex once a week in the missionary position, then you're a pervert. Well I hate to break it to you but the mind is a serious complex bit of kit and I'm afraid some of us cannot simply stare at a naked person and instantly get turned on, some of us need a different fuel mix for our engines to fire them up.

My daughter is coming up to age of 10 so we've had to sit her down and explain the facts of life, the very fact that my wife and I share an unusual interest allowed us to be very open with our daughter about sexuality and puberty. We didn't discuss anything outside the accepted "norms" but we did say that sex is fun, nothing to be ashamed of but it should ideally be performed with someone you respect. We briefly explained that people of the same sex can enjoy a loving relationship, people like dressing up and acting out little plays while having sex to make it more interesting, left it at that. More than anything we wanted to make sure that she felt comfortable with talking about sex and relationships as she heads towards becoming an adult, if she needs to discuss anything then she can be open about it, whether that's us, a doctor or any trusted authority figure.

Not many people feel comfortable with their sexuality, especially if they think that they have what could be seen as an unusual interest. Most people would prefer to find out on their own how different they think they are before they decide to follow a particular path through life. UK Gov simply sees sex = porn = filth = corrupt society.

It's not until you have spent years hiding feelings you know don't seem right that you fully understand the need for open information and understanding, the last thing you need is to be made to feel like a freak about something you can't change and never asked to be "given" in the first place.

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Anonymous Coward

"beating myself up for having these feelings"

So, a bit of S&M to add to that bondage?

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No kids

No children live in my house. Would I still have to tell my ISP whether or not I'm a wanker?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No kids

You've just reminded my, even though I'm a tea-totaller I'll have to by an alcohol meter for my drive through France next week.

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Stop

Re: No kids

Two, actually.

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Pirate

Re: No kids

Only one kid for me, but a confirmed wanker so will certainly tick the box. How then, will the ISP work out when it is me online and when it is my daughter?

Not that I care if she sees some nudity online, much safer there than in person...

Which reminds me, why do people keep saying that the Internet is a dangerous place, when it is the real, physical world where almost all of the danger lies?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: No kids

No, children outside are quite happy to help you out with this service. They have the necessary verbal skills.

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Black Helicopters

yet another well intentioned but misguided law in the making

Anyone remember anti-terrorism laws being used to stop photographers snapping the police, train stations, public places?

anyone care to speculate exactly what is meant by "harmful content"? I can see this being mis-used and abused as yet another form of censorship, that is ineffective at stopping the thing its meant to stop (i.e. stopping kids watching porn)

Any kind of controls the ISP's/Government put in is likely be easily bypassed by the kids who probably know more about the interwebs than these ministers!

An earlier poster had it right.. it's down to the parents to ensure they're in control of what their kids see, and to decide what is best for them.

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Silver badge

Re: yet another well intentioned but misguided law in the making

It's hard to say, but, based on recent government trends and dropped hints... I'd say that the first thing they'll class as harmful will be sites promoting anorexia or suicide. The stuff that isn't going to raise much objection. Then they'll gradually widen it to include 'hate speech,' which is vague enough that a lot of more extreme political and religious (Or anti-religious) sites will be blocked. Then they'll just extend it finally to 'promotion of criminal activity' and start blocking all manner of things relating to hacking (As defined by politicians, so this includes things like how to jailbreak your iPad), piracy, etc.

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Black Helicopters

Re: yet another well intentioned but misguided law in the making

Or just any site which criticises the government.

Or any site which has the *potential* to criticise the government

Or any site which doesn't have a banner telling us how wonderful the government is.

When things like this are discussed, people really need to remember that illegal and legal are simply words that apply to what the government of the day wants them to. It's not the government of today we need to worry about with these powers. It's the government of tomorrow.

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