back to article Bonking for money to be built into the next iPhone

Dismantling code allegedly from the next iPhone 9-to-5 Mac has discovered Near Field Communications embedded in the hardware, paving the way for Apple Commerce come 2013. The code comes from two prototype handsets 9-to-5 Mac reckons are knocking around Cuppertino in the hands of trusted developers and engineers. The rumour site …

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WTF?

Anyone else read the article like:

"Next version of Apple phones will have the feature that most other phones being sold with today also have"

?

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Facepalm

So where is Google wallet in the UK then?

Unless Google get it out here before the iPhone5, Apple will be able to use it as a unique feature, but if Google get there first, we might be saved a year of dreadful adverts promoting the NFC payment.... I hope....

Right now if you want to bonk your phone to pay in the UK you have to stick an NFC sticker on your phone...

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Anonymous Coward

It may have escaped your attention but Apple doesn't tend to implement features until the demand is there or the technology is proven and efficient.

NFC is too slow for many uses which people would want to use it for:

http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article/195259/NFC-too-slow-for-the-Tube

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@Lee Dowling

"Next version of Apple phones will have the feature that most other phones being sold with today also have"

You seem to have missed the bit where the Google wallet was trivial to crack when launched. Perhaps that is why Apple waited?

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Re: @Lee Dowling

MMS anyone?

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"Right now if you want to bonk your phone to pay in the UK you have to stick an NFC sticker on your phone..."

And all you have to do to rob someone is get a NFC reader and something to write to a clone.

At least if someone dips your wallet, you notice the wallet has gone from your pocket. With this, you can be tightly clutching your 'wallet' have it dipped and still not notice.

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Flame

Yes, and another thing:

We will get used hearing things like "sorry, paying via NFC only works if you have an iPhone".

Just the same way as nobody bothers to implement their latest little online advertising doodad for anything else these days, often not even for Android. Yes, that means you are limiting your audience with levity, excluding people from your brand experience because someone was too lazy to do a platform-agnostic implementation. Basically, you're telling people to go fuck themselves because you think they bought the "wrong" phone, even what you are selling is cars, or detergent, or whatever else that is not an Apple product. Probably one of the more stupid things to do when it comes to selling stuff to people – but who am I to judge.

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Headmaster

"aledgedly" -- seriously?

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Joke

That headline...

gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "You're holding it wrong".

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Happy

Apple following standards?

Ever since NFC started appearing in devices, I've been waiting for Apple to release its own similar shinier, better marketed version which is completely incompatible with NFC as we know it.

The technology is underused and not adopted very widely at the moment, Apple could either crush it for its own or give it legs. I hope its the latter.

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JDX
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Is it needed?

New credit cards already let you pay by touch and I always have my CC with me so while it's a cool nerdy trick, does it gain users anything? I never used it so it's a real question, ware there real use cases?

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Re: Is it needed?

People used to say that about compact cameras - now there are very few people carrying a camera and a phone. In "the future" you won't need to carry a separate wallet for money and cards because it'll be in your phone. Of course, in this future you will be screwed when your phone is nicked.

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JDX
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Re: Is it needed?

Yes but with cameras you don't have a network effect - you build a camera into a phone and it's a camera. If you build a payment device into a phone, it's only useful if 100% (or close) of vendors accept it. Which they won't... so everyone will HAVE TO carry their credit/debit card with them as well.

I'm more interested in using my phone at an ATM I reckon. Do they plan to do this?

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Re: Is it needed?

Will you be more screwed or less screwed?

I would say less. How many wallets come with Remote Tracking and Remove Wipe - most smartphones do.

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Re: Is it needed?

My bank have put contactless payment into my debit card already, despite my complete lack of interest. That said, it's actually proven useful quite a few times — a bunch of lunch places around central London take it, and even a few pubs.

But do I want that in my phone? Not really. It doesn't feel like it would add anything that I don't already have, and it'll probably be completely unclear who I'm meant to ring if the thing is lost or stolen and who is responsible for any resulting charges made that amount to theft, and I'll also have the risk of malware.

I guess it's an easier sell in places like the US where they haven't even quite evolved to putting chips in cards and cheques are still routinely used for all manner of transactions.

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Anonymous Coward

On the back of this, I just watched the video for Google Wallet... are Americans really that excitable?

its not amazing, its a virtual credit card basically... So instead of pulling out your cc from your wallet, you turn your phone on, unlock it, enter a pin, pay.

Google Wallet will become amazing when people can bonk phones together to transfer money between virtual wallets, that will be the end of cash.

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End of Cash

Nothing is more convenient than handing someone a note that promises to pay the bearer on demand the sum of X amount of money. No batteries required, no dodgy insecure radio transmissions going on, no chance of fiddling from data miners.. It Just Works.

Cash is going nowhere.

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Re: End of Cash

"promises to pay the bearer on demand " I don't think they actually say that any more.

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Boffin

Re: End of Cash

Bank of England £5:

"I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five pounds"

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Happy

Re: End of Cash

Indeed, and there's a chap in Sarf London who can get you 500 crisp £20notes for a grand...... Honest guv!!

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Re: End of Cash

Good point about forgeries, however do you think pay-by-bonk will be any better?

There's money in it, therefore it will be subverted. Wonder what's going to happen once NFC starts becoming popular? As in popular enough to be worth attacking? You can't MITM cash. Or use it to syphon an attached bank balance/e-wallet/whatever.

At least a bit of applied intelligence and a blacklight can catch a forged £20.

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Re: End of Cash

Lol you're quite right, no idea where I got that from. Obviously I don't see enough banknotes :(

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Anonymous Coward

Re: End of Cash

Glancing through online ads it appears most people who work on the principle of pay by bonk only accept cash.

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Re: End of Cash

Did you even bother looking at a bank note before posting that?

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Everyone will love it !

Untill it turns out it's Beta software not supported outside of the US, and a group of Far East or Eastern Block rip off artists find clever ways of fiddling some not-quite-so-tech-savvy old age pensioners out of their har earnd.

Oh yeah, it'll be the talk of the town.

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Re: Everyone will love it !

Sadly, even if it's totally useless, it'll STILL be the talk of the town

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Unhappy

Perhaps Apple support is needed for NFC to get moving

99% of music/charging docks are for Apple devices, with Android sadly lacking.

Perhaps Apple support is needed before companies take NFC seriously :(

*Impatiently looking at his Galaxy S3*

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Anonymous Coward

I see several blocking issues with this technology

1) Different implementations/standards of wallets etc.. and operator buy in. It's internet TV's all over again!

2) Google/Apple/Microsoft putting a lot effort to get US financial institutions onboard, but non-US are out of the loop.

3) Speed (as the AC pointed out earlier). Too much latency in the system. Gets even slower if you put the secure component on a SIM. This results in firing blanks - mistakes - retries - frustration

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DCE
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Putting a credit card into an iPhone app would add value if the app could also track your usage - record details of your transactions and reconcile them with your online account. That's something I could see myself using, at least until the battery wears out.

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Re: at least until the battery wears out.

and there lies the problem. My credit card whether I use the mag stripe, the chip, or the NFC chip works all the time. I can go out for a weekend and long after my phone battery has died I can still pay for a taxi home.

If NFC payments can't replace a card then there's no point, and they can't replace a card.

There is a place for putting other things on your phone but not important stuff like money. Reward cards could go on phones, maybe cinema tickets. I'd worry about having a train ticket on my phone because of the battery issue. A day out in a city could easily drain your phone, plenty of Google maps usage, a few photos, listening to some music as you walk around and then there's no ride home because a dead phone is less useful than a piece of card.

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Anonymous Coward

The problem with NFC in the UK

Is that it's not a huge leap of convenience over Chip & PIN. Go through all the palaver of loading up your mobile wallet, and save 15 seconds at the till!

Not much of a selling point, is it?

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Re: The problem with NFC in the UK

Presumably you'll have to type a PIN here too..

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Apple tend to come late but implement well, If its done right this could be the boost NFC needs.

We'll see.

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The only thing that matters...

...you'd better be able to disable it.

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