WHo I think is a secret shareholder in Foxconn. Ane he knows which side is his bread buttered on.
Is this really news?
Samsung's highly anticipated Android-based Galaxy S III smartphone may be basking in attention that it's receiving during its official launch on Wednesday, but there's at least one top tech exec who's snubbing it. Terry Gou, the "pugnacious" chairman of Hon Hai, the parent company of iPhone and iPad maker Foxconn, advises that …
WHo I think is a secret shareholder in Foxconn. Ane he knows which side is his bread buttered on.
Is this really news?
What a crazy fantasy. Apple isn't even Foxconn's largest customer - e.g for phones it's actually Nokia and Sony, Huawei and Motorola.
You think this would happen if Apple was a shareholder?
--"a company with a track record of snitching on its competitors" – a reference to Samsung's outing of four Taiwanese companies in a 2010 EU flat-panel price-fixing investigation that resulted in a €434 fine.
Foxconn is pissed because Samsung outed suppliers for screwing the customer? Just making sure I didn't read this wrong, if he's pissed because Samsung doesn't want companies doing illegal shit, then Gou can stick his head up his own ass till he suffocates.
No, he's pissed because Samsung also participated in said plan to screw customers but then ratted everyone out and got away scot free.
Unless I dreamed this didn't Samsung just do a plea bargain thing? ie they were as guilty as the rest but got off because they snitched first. If that is how it went down it's hardly 'Samsung doesn't want companies doing illegal shit'.
Apologies again if I've got that wrong.
"South Korean companies Samsung Electronics and LG Display, the world’s top two LCD makers who in combination produce over half of the LCD panels sold worldwide, were among six LCD screen manufacturers rapped by the European Commission today for colluding to fix the price of LCD panels used in flat-screen HDTV displays [...]
Samsung was exempted from being hit with any fine for its role in whistleblowing on the price-fixing cartel." - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-lcd-price-fixing-samsung-20101208952.htm
This was of course after Samsung got caught price fixing RAM: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4340388.stm
Price fixing is a popular business model for Samsung.
It's one thing to out your competitors, but another to string them along as say you'll co-operate with their little scam and then later report them later on for personal gain. That's almost the same thing as entrapment.
^^ This is exactly why Terry Gou is pissed.
That's what Virgin did to BA (airlines). In the EU the whistleblower gets the fine waived. A sort of incentive.
A bad incentive in the case, since it was the market's biggest offender (Samsung, by sales) who got away with a thank you and goodbye.
> Samsung doesn't want companies doing illegal shit
> Samsung outed suppliers for screwing the customer
I think you are unable to understand that:
This "illegal shit" is just a contract among private parties into which state has no standing to look into. None at all. Except to fulfill random promises given to the electorate that they will control <mumble mumble> rampant capitalism for <mumble mumble> the consumers' good and hoover up some cash to pay the tax feeding classes on the side.
Those "screwed customers" were apparently quite ok with the price for which those goods were being offered.
That if the price is above market expectations through collusion or otherwise, sales will fall and the door will be opened for competitors.
As long as Samsung didn't initiate the price fixing scheme then I don't have a problem with this behaviour. I'd do the same thing, play along just long enough to have enough evidence for an iron clad case.
Well it's not like I could get the same product cheaper from their competitor so obviously I was getting the best deal - oh wait that's the -point.-
>Those "screwed customers" were apparently quite ok with the price for which those goods were being offered.
>sales will fall and the door will be opened for competitors.
@Destroy All Monsters
Your logic only works if other competitors exist- in some industries, there are only a few players. Example: Say nVidia and AMD** got together, and agreed their pricing in advance: the prices they set would be what the customer expects the price to be. He can not get an equivalent product elsewhere. For a start-up to compete would require years and billions of dollars.
This is why we have a Monopolies and Mergers Commission* and racketeering is considered illegal in most countries.
*Yeah, I know Intel could maybe, I know that Global Foundries make AMD's stuff... it's only an example of the rough idea.
**despite the best efforts of the late Lord Sutch, we still have only one Monopolies Commission.
Oh I see, so he's pissed because Samsung snitched before Foxconn could, I've got it now.
"A bad incentive in the case, since it was the market's biggest offender (Samsung, by sales) who got away with a thank you and goodbye."
Hang on a minute. You can't just take this out of context.
This whole affair is about illegal cartels rigging prices and thus gouging their customers. If Samsung's actions meant that the cartel was found and the members punished, does it really matter if the company that enabled the authorities to bring the malefactors to book got off scot free? It may be that it is dishonorable, conniving and unpleasant but do the ends, in this case, not justify the means?
Or do you really enjoy paying over the odds?
I'd call it clever business strategy. Play along with your competitors, then snitch on them and come out on top. It's business, fair play to Samsung.
@Destroy All Monsters
You're confusing Marxism with rejection of economic libertarianism. That's like saying everywhere not in Solihull is London. There's actually quite a broad range of possible opinions on this, but you have to think a little harder, and stop pretending the economy can be run just on a few broad principles, in order to see the others.
To say the state has no standing to look into private contracts is ridiculous, since the state does in fact do that, and it does it quite a lot, and no civil wars have occurred as a result.
And I think the financial pyramid scheme that almost destroyed the economy recently is a pretty good argument against the wisdom of the extreme laissez-faire position. Put simply, unregulated markets do not work to the benefit of society as a whole. They cannot work to the benefit of society as a whole; they are largely unaware of society as a whole. Society is aware of them, though, so it is the only actor who can figure out how they should work, given society has its own aims and given that society wants to prevent markets from undermining those aims. Otherwise you're just crossing your fingers and hoping that what the market wants is the same as what society wants, when this is demonstrably not the case.
"To say the state has no standing to look into private contracts is ridiculous, since the state does in fact do that, and it does it quite a lot, and no civil wars have occurred as a result."
Is this like saying that when cops beat you up, saying that they shall not do so is ridiculous because they are in fact, doing that.
> And I think the financial pyramid scheme that almost destroyed the economy recently is a pretty good argument against the wisdom of the extreme laissez-faire position.
You are confused as to what the current economic crisis means. It says nothing about laissez faire. It says a lot about Keynesianism, governmental credit manipulation and fractional reserve banking though.
> Put simply, unregulated markets do not work to the benefit of society as a whole.
Lots of dogma here. I would really like to see this position illustrated.
I haven't seen a "laissez faire" society in my whole life. I wouldn't have seen it if I had been born in 1900 and it's just getting worse.
There also seems to be confusion about "society" (a handwaving term designating a thing that does not exist as such; society does not act, nor does it forsee or decide - individuals driven by individual interests do) and the mistaken belief that random bureaucratic decisions can make "society" a better place. In truth bureaucrats cannot even foresee what will happen the next day. The last five years should be proof of THAT. Open the paper. Panicking, lying, dissembling, clueless bureaucracy on 10 glorious broadsheet pages.
> Or do you really enjoy paying over the odds?
No-one ever forced me to buy an LCD screen, gun in hand.
> "society" (a handwaving term designating a thing that does not exist as such...)
Is that you, Margaret? Ask Nurse and she'll explain why trolling El Reg is a Bad Thing. When your meds kick in, you'll see the funny side of equating market regulation with Marxism - how we laughed!
>the world’s top two LCD makers who in combination produce over half of the LCD panels sold worldwide
Bit of a tenous boast, since BenQ in the form of AU Optronics manufacture considerably (2x/3x) more panels than both companies combined. LG and Samsung resell millions of AUO panels, which is I suppose how they get away with the claim
As with Apple and others, you wonder how many shareholders really see a difference between the number of products shipping and actually having the capacity to manufacture those products.
Sooner or later the major Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturers are going to muster sufficient sense to sit down together in a room somewhere.
It's not meant to be good _in the context of the initial case_.
What it's meant to do is act as a deterrent, because companies that go into a price-fixing arrangement know damn well that any of them could at any point sell all the others out and get off 'scot free'. The point of the arrangement is to make it very difficult for companies to conspire with any degree of trust at all. They darn well know that from the day the agreement is...agreed...there'll be some snot in each company pushing for them to go ahead and sell the others out, take the money and run. It's actually a rather neat trick.
Foxconn and Apple would seem to richly deserve each other.
Foxconn's big customers, I'm pretty sure you own some tech made by them:
You really think we don't know Foxconn has >1 customer???
Like i needed another reason not to buy Apple gear...
Surely the insufferable atmosphere in any Apple shop, surrounded by Apple people is enough. Puts anyone with good to doubleplusgood IT knowledge back 25 years with all the faux trendy bullshit.
Wouldn't know - never been to Apple shop... :-)
I'd take that over Dell or HTC's call centres any day.
Hold on, keep in mind that Apple Store employees deal with a lot of people who know nothing about the guts/inards/workings of computing thingies. When they start talking to me, I'll politely interrupt with an "Excuse me, I'm a Unix and Oracle developer", at which point comes the "ah, okay" and more technical explanation.
OTOH, Best Buy is honey-badger-like in its not caring ... though the worst was CompUSSR.
Are you serious?! A company that calls it store workers "Geniuses", who hover round customers like fly to shit in a vain effort to convince you that their product is superior..
Talk about Brainwashed!
Amen! I always felt kinda stupid taking someone called "genius" to school on something very simple (had a former "genius" working help desk for us once.)
So what, all this mutual jerking over a name. Microsoft calls their sales staff "specialists", I cringe a little bit and carry on. At least "geniuses" know how to open machines and actually fix stuff.
Yeah I think Apple credit the general population with not confusing Apple staff for Einsteins or Feynmans. The term 'computer guru' and similar are often used by 'blokes in the pub'* to describe anyone who has enough PC skills to get the things to do what is expected of them. By designating their sales staff 'geniuses', Apple are differentiating them from the sort of staff found in Dixons or Currys- a necessary step, even if the method is cringe inducing.
Oh, I note that Apple Stores and John Lewis have been jpoint awarded the Best Electronics Retailer 2012 in this months Which? magazine. Apparently respondents were impressed by the amount of working products on display that they could try out. Contrast this with a 'sales assistant' in Curry's recently, who was incessantly quoting Ghz and GB all over the place... ["I know that. It is written on the sticker. Please Shh so I can compare and contrast."]
This is a moot point anyway- most people receive their iPhone through a courier or mobile network operator's store.
*older self-employed or small business-owning types
"By designating their sales staff 'geniuses', Apple are differentiating them from the sort of staff found in Dixons or Currys- a necessary step, even if the method is cringe inducing."
Thanks for reminding me of the little game we used to play in Dixons at Moorgate - looking at some shiny kit like a spider in it's web. Eventually (+- 30 seconds) we would be approached by our intended victim - previous victims would obtain a suitable vantage point from which to view the ensuing carnage.
We would patiently allow the 'expert' to present the shiny kit with as much BS as they could muster. Once we felt the seam was played out we would then tear into every one of their preposterous(sp?) musings, they would usually go very red and their colleagues would be heard tittering in the background.
The store manager eventually asked us to stop after a few months and about 20 victims, but most of the people we 'scalped' considered what we did a right of passage and all in good fun.
Well, it made the lunch-times pass a bit quicker at any rate.
You da douche - don't but any of their other manufactures then - i.e. don't but pretty much any electronics these days.
You big man/ loser. Dixons staff are IMHO pretty crap but that just makes you the fly on / eating up the crap. Some people actually have more to do that waste our and other peoples time.
To you or me, they are not "Genius" employees, but to my tech ignorant mum and dad, these guys can actually help them use their products. My mum can now make photo albums on the web, edit videos together and upload them to youtube and all kinds of stuff.
Sure, you and I can do this by pissing about with a computer long enough, but others cannot - in fact, that my mum could get help simply by popping into an Apple store is why she spent the extra and got a Mac. Why be so condescending towards people who need help using computers?
I love the Apple iTard, trying to hide his fanboyism as an Anon. You've given yourself away in pretty much every post you've made.
At least I'm not the only one to find the Apple shop setups to be oppressive and unfriendly. What's wrong with going to a till to buy something, you have to grab someone and then you pay using their crazy iPhone thing in the store, all very odd and unnecessary.
"Dixons staff are IMHO pretty crap"
Believe it or not, the store manager allowed us to get away with this because it actually taught their staff something that they didn't teach in 'Dixon's sales school' and also meant they approached customers with a 'let's find out what level of customer we are dealing with here' rather than the smug approach that they seemed to normally turn up with.
The fact that they had 20 odd different people through the door meant that the manager was bringing staff in 'for the experience' from other stores as we were not only making them a bit more humble but actually taught them a few things as well. It was all done in good taste, the fact that you failed to see the benefits to everyone in this scenario is just you projecting how you would have conducted yourself in this situation rather than me.
And I am a big man - but that's just between me and my mistress :P
"At least "geniuses" know how to open machines and actually fix stuff."
That's called "technician", not "genius": laying the foundation for modern algebra before dying in a duel at the age of 20 - that's a genius...
I can just picture a chubby know-it-all in to find a tech person to feel superior to. I'm sure the sales staff love your type.
"iPhone and iPad maker Foxconn"
i know Ms Leach loves the rebranding thing, but isnt that taking it a bit too far??
Foxconn provide a supplier chain service to loads of companies, but this Bridy New Site doesnt ever refer to any Sony/Dell/Huawei/NokiaSamsung/etc gear as being from the "maker Foxconn"
Seriously guys, the humour in this has been beaten to death, the living shit kicked out of it. Are there any writer left in Reg Land with more of a bird brain that your logo to come up with new lines? One a year will do.
Nobody said "Foxconn rebrander"
And besides, it's not like you have a gun to your head forcing you to read it. Or do you?
Don't they call it the "Android Army'?
" Nobody said "Foxconn rebrander" "
yep, fully aware of that, which is why I said that Ms Leach loves the term. and the ref to Foxconn being the iPad maker in this article taking it a step further. too advanced for you?
no, dont have to read it, you are right, just like you didnt need to read my comment or reply to it. Gun to your head?