Feeds

back to article Tomb Raider dev denies Croft rape scene

Crystal Dynamics has denied the existence of rape scenes in the upcoming Tomb Raider refresh, after the title's Producer implied just such a threat faces Lara Croft in the new game. Producer Ron Rosenberg is reported to have said: "And then what happens is her best friend gets kidnapped, she gets taken prisoner by scavengers on …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

FAIL

Disgusted.

She can't be a strong and independent woman because she IS one, oh no. She has to be an abuse victim objectified by men to become strong and capable. Otherwise she would be a model or a stay at home mom or something. Apparently they never heard of Portal?

Isn't it funny that men don't seem to need to be objectified, victimized and dis-empowered to become videogame relevant? This is basically BDSM porn. Its not plot, its wanking material for angry geeks.

This garbage exists to pander to angry, dateless 15 year olds of all ages.

17
17
Childcatcher

Re: Disgusted.

Yes because films like "The Accused" are equally objectifying, is it just because of the media that message must be puerile?

If the game is marketed towards adults then I don't see why it should not have a grown up theme like abuse and how that may affect someone's decision making and the horrific effects these events can have. I am sure Cheryl Araujo would be thrilled that her terrible experiences were made into a critically acclaimed and moving film to pander to dateless 15 year olds.

Until I have heard that there is a complete version I will refrain from commenting in such a "someone thing of the children" type way. Even if I fear you may be sadly right in the end.

5
5
Mushroom

Re: Disgusted.

I never said "save the children" and this is not a movie about a rape, actual or otherwise.Rape is a serious issue. And I've read and seen serious subject matter on this topic. I've had to help council rape victims too scared to get help.

This a pointless sexist, exploitative rehash of a beloved videogame character. This is not about plot, mature or otherwise. Its about a cynical cash in meant to appeal to the kind of people who think "Grand theft auto" is character building gameplay.

If it had been about the violent rape or assault of Alice in Wonderland, or Nancy Drew, it would be sadly obvious to the point where we would not need to HAVE this discussion. This is an attack on the concept of the "strong woman" pure and simple.

And frankly, you can thumb it down all you like. I expect a lot of people posting here were one hand dating Laura Croft back in the day. They know who they are, and I expect to have a big collection of their Cheeto stained thumb-downs by this evening. So if the shoe fits. Ect........ That's what women are supposed to do, shut up when we are told, right? Not gonna happen.

17
12
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

"That's what women are supposed to do, shut up when we are told, right? Not gonna happen."

No, just annoying people and boring people.

11
9
Silver badge
FAIL

Re: AC @ 19:18

don't foget being subjected to pathetic abuse by anonymous internet dickheads...

7
1

Re: Disgusted.

Surely you've noticed the rampant misogyny from the IT crows, with studies pointing this out and rampant sexism at every level in every company.

You're thinking a little highly of most who post here, they're the most worthless of all types, dorky, single cretinous woman hating porn addicts, the saddest and truest stereotype in existence, absolutly rampant on El Reg.

6
8
Anonymous Coward

Re: AC @ 19:18

Well I could go into the "reality" of a powerful evil villain believing they were in a position to take advantage of an attractive younger woman is not exactly unrealistic. But that would be wasted on most.

Though I'll say I didn't say anyone was either of those things, simply that those are the people who are best silent, but rarely are. If you believe you fall into either category that's your problem not mine.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

Of course it is Jeebus, keep playing the "I'm a great person" card, one day someone will believe it.

In reality IT departments are some of the nicest teams you'll find, sexism is far more rife on a sales floor or a call center (and probably a number of other places, but they're the only one's I've had the pleasure of working near.)

Your accusations are a combination of, childish, ignorant and, stereotypical.

7
2

Re: Disgusted.

Re: "Isn't it funny that men don't seem to need to be objectified, victimized and dis-empowered to become videogame relevant?"

While I'd agree the new backstory for Lara Croft feels unnecessary, banal, trite, tasteless, etc., this sort of characterization device isn't uncommon:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkAndTroubledPast

4
0
Anonymous Coward

It's advertising Jim, but not as we know it.

A way to sell a game that maybe under par, by suggesting titillation or sensationalism.

Imagine how many they would sell if Lara Croft went with the first Lesbian gaming kiss?

2
0

Re: It's advertising Jim, but not as we know it.

Wasn't that done in another game already, only the skin color of the women was blue?

Whatever.

And btw, jeebus probably forgot to apply the sarcasm tag in his reply.

Or not.

But again, whatever.

1
1
Silver badge
FAIL

Re: It's advertising Jim, but not as we know it.

In the end, the care-o-meter is at 0.

1
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

@AC "...In reality IT departments are some of the nicest teams you'll find, sexism is far more rife on a sales floor or a call center..."

Really? I don't even know where to begin, there is the fact that women are woefully under represented in IT, or the attitude of "I'm too smart to be sexist, anything I say is post-modern irony". Or even the outright sexism - I have heard the manager of a FTSE100 UNIX team say that "I won't ever employ a woman, because women can't do unix." I could give examples until the cows come home.

2
2
Silver badge

Re: Disgusted.

I am also disgusted - worrying about pointless crap like this when they should be either desperately trying to inject decent gameplay into this dead horse of a series.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: It's advertising Jim, but not as we know it.

If it's advertising, then it's probably just lost them a sale. Computer games are escapism for most of us. And we like to identify with the main character. If they think that rape wont put potential buyers off they are mistaken.

I don't often see a male action hero being beaten down and raped / near raped by a man as a means of character building or drama. It would freak out too many of the male players. But apparently female players are supposed to be okay with it. Are women supposed to be more okay with being violated than a man would be?

1
0

Re: Disgusted.

Oh give the feminism a rest, will you? I'm a woman and I'm not offended by this at all. Who cares about what some minority pressure group - which is all feminism is - thinks?

Attack on 'strong women'? What nonsense! It's a story, ok? The personal is not political. People just want to enjoy a gritty story now and again. I'm not a big Laura Croft fan, but a story like that wouldn't bother me if I was.

Frankly, I find your post to be extremely offensive and sexist. You imply that all men playing the game are inadequate geeks who masterbate to it. Gosh, isn't it wonderful how you feel free to stereotype anyone you don't like, but if someone should even looks at a woman in a way you don't like, you scream 'sexism'.

9
3
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

"Isn't it funny that men don't seem to need to be objectified, victimized and dis-empowered to become videogame relevant?"

Most protagonists are dis-empowered and made to suffer in plot and back-story, due to our concepts that heroes must overcome not only the 'world shattering plot' kind of adversity, but personal adversity, too. Even James Bond has been graphically tortured. It's a cheap plot device, but hardly new. 'Men' certainly are victimised in fiction, on a regular basis. Or worse: Portrayed as rapists when 'the bad guys'. Which is a pretty horrific thing to see your gender represented as.

"This is basically BDSM porn."

Really? We haven't even seen the game. How do you know what it is. How about waiting to see before judging?

I'm personally holding off judgement until I see something that makes me think it'll be crap.

0
0
Silver badge
Stop

Re: Disgusted.

Dana W: Whilst acknowledging that there is such a thing as misogyny, to suggest that a scene in a work of fiction showing a (sterotyped) female character defeating a (stereotyped) male character is 'BDSM porn' and 'wanking material for angry geeks' is, in itself, extremely misandrystic, and offensive to men.

I understand the purpose and ideas behind feminism, and the movement has acheived many positive things. I believe that there is also a good deal more for society to achieve before the job is done. The goals of feminish will not, however, be achieved by hating men.

You cannot fight sexism with sexism; for a woman to cast all men as the villians, to imply that we are all women hating sex-crazed thugs, is equally as sexist as a man suggesting that all women are weak and should stay in the kithen - it is a vile opinion and one that deserves to be stamped upon.

From an alternate point of view, the scene in which Lara Croft is attacked by "a beardy old scrote running his hand over Lara's curves before knocking her to the ground and straddling her", could just as validly be seen as a cynical stereotyping of men as it is the denigration of a strong woman. My suggestion would be that if it's not to your taste, don't buy the game.

2
0
Silver badge

Re: Disgusted.

Never played the game myself but I have seen the movies and I think I've watched someone play it a few times (not a twitch gamer myself). Given those portrayals I think I'll agree with Dana on the wankerism call. Not sure I'd call it an attack on strong women. That implies forethought and malice and I think this one is more along the lines of mindless and feckless. Still a problem, but a somewhat different solution.

1
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

While I don't particularly care about Lara Croft games one way or the other (though in my view a potential rape victim shooting a would be rapist strikes me more as a case of a woman showing strength and that she is capable of defending herself) I take a wee bit of umbrage with you equating a potential rape scenario with BDSM.

You are aware that BDSM is performed between consenting adults who each have certain sexual preferences whether dominant or submissive right? And that it is the submissive who really holds more power than the dominant during scenes contrary to appearances? If not I suggest you go do some reading up on the subject before making ill informed statements.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Disgusted.

"I'm an [X] and I don't find [thing offending other Xs] offensive."

Yeah, you're right, as an [X] you've had the same experiences as all [X]s. Therefore, as an [X] you know exactly what all [X]s should find offensive. Any other [X] who is offended by something must be a melodramatic weirdo who needs to simmer down and stop trying so hard to forward the cause of equality for [X]s, because this isn't the main issue affecting [X]s today.

1
0
Silver badge

How does that work, exactly?

"The character may not actually be sexually assaulted on screen - they'd never get that past the censor - but the threat is strongly implied, part of CD's attempt to get players to see the character behind the pneumatic, scantily clad pixels of the past.."

That makes no sense to me. Could someone explain the mechanism behind it, and tell me how it works, exactly?

1
7
Bronze badge

Re: How does that work, exactly?

I guess that if you see the character in peril (and more than just the in-game mechanics of play peril) you are more likely to empathise and consider the inner emotional state.

I suspect it is just sex-and-controversy-sells marketing though.

7
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: How does that work, exactly?

"I suspect it is just sex-and-controversy-sells marketing though."

Nothing quite like it, never been a fan of the series and this doesn't make it seem anymore interesting.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: How does that work, exactly?

If anything, the heavy torture-porn feel to the trailer (regardless of what the actual product is like) has made me less likely to buy the game.

3
0
Silver badge

Re: How does that work, exactly?

Hmmmm.

I've just watched the trailer and Lara's various reactions, not just in that scene, which frankly was too quick for me to make out clearly what was going on but overall, she does seem to have been reduced to a spineless wimp that complains all the time. What happened to the Lara that offered naff James Bond like quips before blasting someone in the face?

0
0
Silver badge
Flame

Gee...

...are they running out of ideas in video games as well? What's next? Lara Croft - Human Centipede.

2
1
Meh

Re: Gee... May I suggest

"Laura Croft - Vampire Twilight" ?

1
0
Trollface

Re: Gee... May I suggest

Laura just because Lara need to be "reinvented"

0
0
Joke

Re: Gee... May I suggest

Maybe if it's intended for adults they could reinvent it further so that she becomes Laurence Croft.

"Just out of Harley Street and this time she's a he and he's angry........."

1
0
Silver badge
Happy

Re: Gee... May I suggest

As long as his generously-portioned man-bits jiggle pneumatically in his over-tight khakis, I'm in!

1
0
Silver badge

Re: he's angry

Oh noes! They made him angry! Nobody likes him when he's angry!

Oops, wrong show.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Gee... May I suggest

"As long as his generously-portioned man-bits jiggle pneumatically in his over-tight khakis, I'm in!"

Actually to get more women in his generously-portioned credit card would need to jiggle pneumatically in his over-tight khakis

1
0

Just like Lawrence of Arabia, then?

That was quite subtle too

0
0
Anonymous Coward

No Dice

One sale lost...

2
0
Bronze badge
FAIL

This is absolutely...

Redonculous.

1
0
Silver badge
FAIL

For me the Lara era has ended anyway

IMO the game market suffers from the same issues as the movie industry. And that is a massive lack of imagination, lack of innovation or.... Or maybe its simply not having the will to invest in something which isn't sure to bring in some money aka being chicken.

My main gripe with all this is that companies simply pick up on icons from the past, violate them where storyline and everything else is concerned and then present it as "the latest newest hippest thing, product X totally revised!" and they're usually damned proud of it too.

Who cares that the move alone can kill fond memories of things from the past (Tombraider, Master o/t Universe, ThunderCats), who cares that where storyline is concerned you'll probably deliver an unfinished product thus leaving quite some new fans unsatisfied (Masters o/t Universe which series' got cancelled for example). As long as it brings in money its a huge success and it doesn't matter how far they have to go.

It's a common trend amongst fantasy characters it seems. Take ThunderCats; one of the things many die-hard fans kept on speculating about was Cheetara (a female character). Was she in love with Lion-O, was she having an affair with Tygra or was she simply totally devoted to being a mother-like figure for the ThunderKittens (Willykit & Willykat)? That went a bit too deep for me but many fans would describe that sense of mystery as adding up to the original series.

Well; TCats revised season 1. "One of your friends is going to betray you!" and oh my; Chee kisses Tygra full on the mouth, of course while she wasn't married to Lion-O or something (what betrayal?).

My point: this is exactly what those money dudes are hoping for. Getting the crowd all worked up ("You can't do that, Chee is an independent Cat!") so that they may feel compelled to buy into the next season to see "if the authors got it right".

This is no different. Bring in a Lara which many fans can't associate themselves with but may still have some "cuteness" over her, many people may buy the game and if at the end she isn't turned into the Lara as we know... Well, then better wait for the next game where she'll face even MORE misery (provided enough income was generated from this game of course).

For me; I'll stick to the older original Tombraider games thank you very much.

3
0
Silver badge

Re: For me the Lara era has ended anyway

There's a reason for the lack of innovation, and it's the same in both industries. Cost. Production is just much more expensive now. Even in the budget titles, people aren't going to be happy with obvious matt paintings for backgrounds in movies. Same in games - high-quality graphics, especially written music and professional voice acting is a must. When a project costs millions of dollars to make, no well-run company is going to risk that much money unless they are assured of a good return. Low-risk. That means sticking to tried-and-tested formulas: The generic genre piece, sequels, franchises and blatant copies of recent successes.

1
1
Silver badge

@Suricou

Sorry but I don't agree. Sure; costs are an important factor nowadays but its the fear that no or hardly any money is earned which is the main thrive which makes these people decide not to innovate.

Because ask yourself this: /why/ does it need to be so extremely expensive? My stance on the matter: because they are scared that things will fail so they throw as much money against it as they can to make the parts they /can/ control (graphics, sound, etc.) as perfect as possible, probably hoping it covers up the rest.

I think its rubbish. Take this game; it looks astonishing. Why does it need to be called "Tombraider"? I bet if they came up with another storyline featuring other characters while using this engine it would still be sold easily.

Luckily there are still companies which /do/ realize the importance of innovation. Take a game such as Journey (Wikipedia link). It broke records, it got very high scores and guess what?

Its a very minimalistic game and didn't resemble /any/ of their previous games. Hardly any extremely sharp graphics, sound is mostly a music score and the main character can't do much more than walk / jump around and produce musical like notes.

Yet it managed to trigger our fantasies and emotions so much and deep that it became an instant hit.

You /can/ create new successes, if you're good at what you're doing and dare to take risks.

1
1
Silver badge

Re: The generic genre piece, sequels, franchises and blatant copies of recent successes.

And oddly enough, exactly the sorts of things that are likely to cause the project to fail, because except in rare cases those are things that make me less inclined to buy the game. In the rare cases that I have (MOO, Civ) completely revamping the game into something new and sticking the old title on it is guaranteed to cheese me off.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

err...

Rape is not acceptable but mass murder is?

I realise that in the context of a computer game this is the case, but it's odd, isn't it?

10
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: err...

Not only is she a mass murderer, but she also caps any endangered species that wander into line of sight, too. And of course, she's a shit archaeologist: She just steals the most valuable thing without recording any context, or taking photos. And she basically trashes any ancient temple that you put her in.

Strong female character, or mass-murdering vandal...?

1
1
Silver badge

Re: err...

It's not mass murder when they only people you've killed were all bad. Even Jamie Lee Curtis understood that.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: err...

Reminds me of a quote from the Hogfather

"And then Jack chopped down what was the world's last beanstalk, adding murder and ecological terrorism to the theft, enticement and trespass charges already mentioned, and all the giant's children didn't have a daddy any more. But he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no-one asks inconvenient questions."

0
0
Silver badge

If people want to make a game where a character overcomes the trauma of rape I don't have a problem with that. There are a lot of things in such a scenario for the storyline to explore. It'd likely end up as a very dark game clearly aimed at adult players.

The problem I have with this game specifically is that Tomb Raider has always been a game marketed at teenagers. It'a not really the right venue for exploring such issues. I can only see this as a desperate attempt to add some controversy to yet another reboot of an ailing franchise.

5
0
WTF?

White Knighting

Am I the only one who actually takes a positive view at this? I mean, let's reiterate what we know so far;

The eponymous heroine is captured and cornered. One of the captors attempts to rape her and *promptly gets his ass gunned down by his would-be victim*. Followed by cries of objectification and "poor raped Lara".

The only message I'm seeing here is "you don't have to be a victim". That even if a woman can't prevent an attempted rape, however dire the circumstances, she can prevent a successful one. I can't speak for members of the double-X demographic, but I find the situation where a female character is put in a nauseating position and *gets herself out of it* empowering more than anything else.

4
1
Silver badge

I think it's the mixing of genres

that is putting people off: I expect and indeed welcome high drama and emotional scenes when I am playing a game of that ilk such as Heavy Rain. If I am playing whizz bang shooty fun puzzle platformer for a bit of escapism I would not appreciate suddenly having the evils of society suddenly dumped on my mind.

I personally am not keen on entertainment that crosses a certain line in exploring personal trauma (like the film about the guy who had to cut his arm off or die in the desert.)

With high end graphics and improving writing, games have evolved to a point where good developers can really make you feel like you are in the game, or at least have a high level of empathy with your character. So throwing the threat of violation of 'you' or a 'person' you care about into the mix is something I can understand people shying away from.

1
0

Surely?

"...running his hand over Lara's curves before knocking her to the ground and straddling her; she shoots him almost immediately."

Surely they have that last bit the wrong way round?

0
0
Silver badge

It's an adult game

Why should it not have adult themes?

2
2
Anonymous Coward

Re: It's an adult game

That makes as much sense as "it's a racist game, why should it not have racist themes?"

2
2

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.