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back to article Kogan 'taxes' IE7 users

Australia's electronics hawker Ruslan Kogan has decided he's had enough of tuning his eponymous website for Internet Explorer 7. Shoppers who use the venerable browser to make purchases from his store will therefore be charged an additional 6.8% for goods. IE 7 users will have the tax thrust in their faces, with the popup below …

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Can we trust a graph where the biggest slice is "Other". Have they been in a coma for years as well?

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"Can we trust a graph where the biggest slice is "Other". Have they been in a coma for years as well?"

Does look weird doesn't it ? It is, however, the browser version chart they're showing - and they don't include all current versions in the side bar. For example, the 'others' really start to go up in usage after April 2012 and Chrome 19 was released (IIRC) at the beginning of May 2012 - but the numbered Chrome bars / lines only show Chrome versions 16, 17 and 18... similarly for other browsers I expect.

Things look a lot more sensible when you look that the un-versioned browser stats or a smaller time slice

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"Have they been in a coma for years as well?"

Ah - I forgot to mention in the previous reply but these stats are from StatCounters global stats, not from Kogans sites (if that's what you were meaning).

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I want to install Other, it looks like a pretty popular browser.

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Unhappy

Posting from IE7

'cause at work I don't get a choice. Something about the finance back-end not being fully compatible with anything else. Idiots!

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Boffin

Send them to me for badly needed consulting

Posting from IE7 'cause at work I don't get a choice. Something about the finance back-end...

Fix DNS, then fix broken links to point to short host names instead of IP addresses. Haven't yet found a web app that didn't work yet in IE8 or IE9.

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Re: Send them to me for badly needed consulting

indeed, ie6 -> ie7 was the major headache after that things have been fine for us.

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Go

Re: Posting from IE7

Have you heard of Chrome Frame ? A plugin for Internet Explorer that displays web pages with a Chrome engine - inside of Internet Explorer. Thus allowing you to view your fincance thing in IE7. And it doesn't even require admin rights to install.

Yes you have the choice.

https://developers.google.com/chrome/chrome-frame/

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FAIL

Re: Posting from IE7

"Something about the finance back-end not being fully compatible with anything else."

Can't they, you know, install Chrome as well as IE7?

Anyway, this is the best thing since Steve Jobs obsoleted flash.

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Firefox rankings?

If they didn't release a new version every week they would actually have some impressive stats here. Far from quiblling about old IE versions I would have thought they would go for Firefox who seem to do things differently in every version.

Curiously when I was trying to find a way round an issue I was having in FF it suggested I use Opera instead....wtf?

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Re: Firefox rankings?

Firefox has certainly improved since it's update cycle changed. I'm not sure what it is about IT people that makes them love to repeat tired old memes that don't even apply.

I've not had one issue that required me to change my sites or employer's sites for a new version of firefox. In fact I'd go so far as to say I bet there is nearly no one in that scenario.

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Ignoring the reality

As long as Microsoft doesn't bring out their newer browsers for their older operating systems people will not be able to upgrade. The alternative route would be to finally bring out a successor of Windows 2000 for a reasonable price. (I know the Windows Server line is a worthy successor, but that sells for astronomic prices)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer#OS_compatibility

Effectively for most users the alternatives are:

Switch to Linux/*BSD

Switch to Firefox (if you don't need ActiveX)

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Re: Ignoring the reality

http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

For those not burdened with too onerous IT Codes of Conduct.

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Facepalm

Re: Ignoring the reality

and I'd just like to add HAHAHAHAHA!

Do NOT tie your app clients to your OS versions. Make them portable, or make them yourself.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ignoring the reality

They have brought out a newer browser for older operating systems - IE8. Any OS that can run IE7 can run IE8.

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Re: Ignoring the reality

@Christian:

If you want an affordable version of Windows Server you can get Home Server 2011 (which is basically a rebadged and somewhat cut-down version of Server 2008 R2) for pretty cheap. You should probably look into whether it does what you need it to do before buying, though...

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Re: Switch to Firefox (if you don't need ActiveX)

You don't need ActiveX.

The wider internet stopped *needing* ActiveX years ago.

You may still find sites that have it as an option, usually to deliver content (like SVG) that every browser *except* IE can handle natively.

If you want to carry on using IE for some internal site full of your own ActiveX controls then fine. You can do that. You can have literally TWO browsers installed on your system. Ain't life grand!

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W3 Validator

Or maybe this 'webmaster' can stop trying to make his web site into a TV set. No sympathy here for this twit.

Signed, a sysadmin who's been in a coma for eighteen years, never mind five.

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Re: W3 Validator

All well and good if you like minimalistic, plain, uninteractive websites, but that's the point.

IE7 doesn't fully support all of the features available to web developers of today i.e HTML5 and they are moving forward to support and embrace such standards.

The internet has changed and is always changing, and like Flares, Reflex, and Babylon bars/clubs, have got to move with the times.

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He needs to use W3 Validator for HTML 5 too

All well and good if you like minimalistic, plain, uninteractive websites, but that's the point.

At least a comparably plain web site would be fast, and wouldn't make visitors feel insulted. "Hey, your sysadmin sucks, get on his [censored] or pay me extra to support you."

Apparently he can't do HTML 5 either, as in IE9 Strict Mode his animations cause his main auto-changing graphic to switch places on screen on every rotation. I've seen this technique in use before and haven't seen that end result until now.

Until he fixes his HTML 5 he has no right to insult the likes of me for 'being in a coma.' Pardon me while I add his site to the corporate filter with, 'the operator is a twit, don't waste your time with him.'

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FAIL

Re: W3 Validator

@Andrew 63: If you think you need HTML5 for web sites that aren't "minimalistic, plain, uninteractive", then you need to upgrade your skills. Competent developers have been building such sites for years, even in IE7 and, dare I say it, IE6.

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Joke

So what is the tax rate for IE6?

I wonder

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Re: So what is the tax rate for IE6?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

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Re: So what is the tax rate for IE6?

Or perhaps "If you still use IE6, you can't afford it."

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FAIL

I can see tha man's got no patience at all...

...he should have waited for April Fools Day. Instead, he's made himself look like the biggest fool of all.

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Re: I can see tha man's got no patience at all...

"Instead, he's made himself look like the biggest fool of all."

Well, as pointed out in the article, this will bringing them publicity and attention, much of which may come from people who aren't just there to slag him off - seems to be working so far perhaps not quite the biggest fool of all ?

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IE7 isn't so bad

IE6 was awful, sure, but IE7 isn't so bad. If they design their site correctly, use jQuery and segment their CSS.

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Re: IE7 isn't so bad

As long as they don't use too much jquery of course, or IE7 will start running like sludge and die.

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Re: IE7 isn't so bad

IE6 isn't so bad. At least there's a valid reason to still be using it (you're running XP).

IE7, on the other hand - the only reason to be running that is that you have taken a decision not to upgrade. That's a valid reason to target IE7 in particular for termination.

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JDX
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What a douche

Either don't support it and put up a "the site might not work properly" - you know like the grownups do - or shut up.

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Re: What a douche

Either don't support it and put up a "the site might not work properly"

Where's the publicity opportunity in that ?... I really doubt he's doing it the devs...

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Re: What a douche

Correction

"I really doubt he's doing it " for "the devs..."

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A feature not a bug.

Kogan are a very new company which cultivate an image of rebelliousness. Their founder is in his twenties. Calling out customers who waste money is a great wheeze. Also, for every customer they lose they gain four. Saying 'we don't want to cost you their with your up-to-date Chrome money because that retard over there is still on IE7' is a great way to get attention.

Here's how to phrase it diplomatically:

"You seem to be using an outdated internet browser. It was replaced by a newer and more secure version three years ago, which is more secure and has great new features. You can download a better version here:

[link]

Developing for outdated technology costs us a lot of money. To sell our products at a fair price, we'll be offering a discount of 3% for users with an up-to-date browser from next year."

You don't even need to impose the charge (billed as a discount) next year. You could just obsolete IE6/7 and say you changed your mind. If I ran an e-commerce store I'd be considering this.

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UK == IE6

There are a number of UK companies who still insist on IE6 compatability. A few months ago we did a portal demo to a certain UK telco who only had IE6 on thier corporate presentation system.

In the end they did the demo using a company laptop and the point that IE6 browser share is nominal but they still consider IE6 as the standard browser for internal systems and request internal systems are designed for it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: UK == IE6

" they still consider IE6 as the standard browser for internal systems and request internal systems are designed for it."

These people need a gaping hole in the head (other than their mouths)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: UK == IE6

Maybe you should adopt the same stance - work costs £X and if you want obsolete browsers supported then that is £y per browser/OS combination.

I really hope more web sites do something like this, so IE6/7 gets an obvious "out of date - do something" warning to prompt bosses that they have to move on.

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Devil

Re: UK == IE6

On the other hand, would it not be more efficient and less costly for everyone if we just get rid of all other browsers and only use IE?

Just stirring the pot!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "and only use IE"

Only IE? Yes, but which IE?

The bar stewards keep changing it, and just when I thought IE6 was the One True Way...I even have BillyG's teeth marks round my dick to prove it!

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Childcatcher

Logo Alert

Statc#unter, that slice of pie...

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Re: Logo Alert

Amazing, isn't it?

Apparently some graphic designers never bother to step back and look at their work.

I imagine Statcounter used the same designers who did the London 2012 logo.

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WTF?

We're upgrading

The corporate desktop Nazi's on our place are part way though the IE6 migration project. They're upgrading to IE7.

For the love of <<insert generic magic man in the sky name >>.

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Re: We're upgrading

IE7, eh? As in "released October 2006"?

If they finish the upgrade within the next 3 months you congratulate/thank them by sending a birthday card with "Now you are six" written all over it.

Sounds like they are too effing stupid to get the joke, but it might make *you* feel better.

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IT Angle

This has nothing to do with IE

Looks to me like this is a very big publicity stunt for Kogan.

Lots of free advertising. Very clever.

They'll probably keep it like this for a month and then due to user feedback revert back to allowing IE7.

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Unhappy

Re: This has nothing to do with IE

>Lots of free advertising. Very clever.

Yep, really rather brilliant.

..the bastards. Why didn't I think of that?

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Re: This has nothing to do with IE

"Looks to me like this is a very big publicity stunt for Kogan."

Umm - yes. That's exactly what the start of the article was saying.

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They make it look like a broader anti-IE whinge when they don't include later version/s of IE in their "better browser" box. And while I'd occasionally like to tell a customer that they "appear to have been in a coma for five years", even I know that talking to customers, especially prospective ones, like that is liable to make them go elsewhere. To say nothing of adding a "tax" to their bill for using a browser I don't like. Publicity stunt maybe, but it does make them look a bit wanky.

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Simple answer

Produce a simple javascript free, plug-in free, w3 compliant site that is delivered to all browsers that are not on your target list.

All targeted browsers (with scripts enabled) would get the full site.

IE7 would get the simple site.

(Though this might be an incentive to retain IE7)

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Go somewhere else

I don't use IE7; but I also don't and wouldn't use this site. I can always shop somewhere else.

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Trollface

Great idea !

I have no intention of joining in the discussions above as to whose browser is bigger - sorry, better - than someone else's, but if this idea caught on it might do wonders for some of my friends approach to patching and updating !

Chris Cosgrove

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FAIL

Excellent - he actually called it a tax !

Given that under 1900 chapter 12: 63 and 64 Vict of the Westminster Parlt (aka Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900) only the Commonwealth may impose taxes I am almost tempted to fire up on old machine with IE7 on it, buy something small and then sue the c**p out of him for charging an illegal tax.

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