back to article Apple-Moto patent gripe almost thrown out the door

A US judge has finally gotten as sick of patent cases as the rest of the world and all but thrown out an Apple v Motorola Mobility lawsuit. Judge Richard Posner has issued a tentative view that the case should be dismissed with prejudice, which would mean that neither of the companies could bring up their whinges again, and …

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Angel

This Is Not The End

“Nor is it the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning.” W.C.

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Wow

Can we nominate Judge Posner for the Nobel Peace prize.......he may have just saved the sanity of the planet?

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Re: Wow

He SHOULD be on the US Supreme Court...but is far too intelligent for that position, I'm afraid.

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jai
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so no news then really

but he warned that he could still change his mind and allow the trial to go ahead

So basically, what he's said nets to zero. The trial may happen, or it may not, he'll tell us in another weeks time.

Sounds more like the judge is looking for more time because he hasn't done his homework on time and also looking to get his name mentioned several thousand times in the press and the blogs.

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MrF
Stop

Re: so yes, news then ...'really'.

"Sounds more like the judge is looking for more time because he hasn't done his homework"

Uh, no...quite the opposite.

We've reached this ignominious point because opposing counsels have repeatedly tried to ignore and/or sidestep the judge's orders. Apple's lawyers, in particular, have made fools of themselves to the point where His Honor has rebuked them in open session. They tried it again this time, with yet another absurdist, last-second motion.

And that's why his threat to terminate with prejudice is so important to the current state of IP litigation. This case proves it's easy to bring suit and request relief -- it's quite another to show how you've been harmed and how much. Is Apple claiming their #1 best-selling product would sell even better without Motorola as competition?

Motorola?

Please. Let's hear it for judicial sanity. At last.

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WTF?

Without Prejudice?

"Judge Richard Posner has issued a tentative view that the case should be dismissed without prejudice, which would mean that neither of the companies could bring up their whinges again, and cancelled the beginning of the trial."

If it's without prejudice then they can just relaunch the same suit immediately, hopefully it is with prejudice otherwise it's meaningless.

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Re: Without Prejudice?

Exactly. Judge Posner (whom I respect immensely as a rare judicial clear thinker) has basically said that neither side has sufficient goods to prevail on their claims. He would, however, allow each to retire to their respective corners and try to re-write their complaints to meet the applicable threshold. The "tentative" part is a warning: these judges don't often change their tentative rulings, particularly when they have been made public. (They don't want a reputation of being uncertain.). I expect that the tentative will. E the order unless someone can show him some pretty convincing (and real, not some marketing drone powerpoint whining) evidence. A day to be much hoped for, in my view.

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Re: Without Prejudice?

C&P your quote (my capitals):-

"Judge Richard Posner has issued a tentative view that the case should be dismissed WITHOUT prejudice, which would mean that neither of the companies could bring up their whinges again, and cancelled the beginning of the trial."

C&P from article (my capitals):-

"Judge Richard Posner has issued a tentative view that the case should be dismissed WITH prejudice, which would mean that neither of the companies could bring up their whinges again, and cancelled the beginning of the trial."

How hard can it be?

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Facepalm

Re: Without Prejudice?

Do you not presume that perhaps the author has since changed that particular paragraph in the article?

Do you really think that rather than copy and pasting from the article I re-typed it by hand accidentally changing the word "with" to "without" in the process to make a point about the article claiming it was stating that it didn't make sense to issue an order without prejudice?

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Happy

Silence?

"Neither Google nor Apple had returned a request for comment at the time of publication...."

Well Apple never talk to you anyway and Google are probably too busy drinking champagne and pissing themselves laughing at the moment.

I wonder if Google managed to keep straight faces when the Judge returned his "You can shove your evidentiary hearing up your arse" response to Apple.

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Anonymous Coward

Champagne? No, no, you don't get it!

When you see what experts have to say, you will realise that Google has lost:

"For Google's ambitions to stop Apple's assertions against Android, and in light of the $12.5 billion it just coughed up for Motorola, that's a setback."

Guess who is the expert?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Champagne? No, no, you don't get it!

>"For Google's ambitions to stop Apple's assertions against Android, and in light of the $12.5 billion it just coughed up for Motorola, that's a setback."

Its a major IP footing where they had essentially nada....and there's a ton of other IP bound up in existing licence agreements with Apple and others. Apple write much bigger cheques for IP per device than they do for manufacture - almost every component is used under licence from a grown-up.

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MrF
FAIL

Re: Neither of you gets it!

Google didn't buy Motorola to attack, but as material for affirmative defense. They care not one whit if they 'lose', so long as Apple don't prevail.

It's Apple who keeps bringing suit against everyone in sight and it's Apple need to win. Any 'expert' who says otherwise is nothing of the kind.

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Holmes

Apple has peaked

All the signs are there. The me-too features in the next iPhone will just go to prove it.

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Foghorn Leghorn's gun!..

That $100+ billion means there will be thousands more coming from Foghorn Leghorn's splatter gun.

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Anonymous Coward

Poor decision

Hear the facts and make a decision so this deal is done and over. Don't dismiss the case because you can't be bothered doing your job.

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Re: Poor decision

Er, no.

He's dismissing the case because neither Apple nor Google have done their job sufficiently to allow him to do his job.

There's a subtle difference.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Poor decision

The subtle difference is if there isn't a legit basis then the court needs to RULE that there is no valid patent case, not dismiss the case. Dismissing the case means it will be back in court again for the same arguments because nothing has been resolved. Duh!

Do your job or retire if you can't be bothered.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Poor decision

> The subtle difference is [blah blah...]

> Do your job or retire if you can't be bothered.

Dear fellow AC, I don't think the judge in question reads this website. However, I am fairly confident it shouldn't be too hard to find how to properly address correspondence to him, so you can tell him all about how this legal system thing works.

I am sure he will appreciate immensely.

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Drop the out from without prejudice. The judge is saying that both parties have no standing to bring this up ever again. It is past time to stop the abuse of the legal system. Maybe the next lawyer who refiles should be put in jail for an amount of time equal to the amount Judge Posner wasted.

Contempt is evident.

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MrF
Happy

Well, he does have to follow standards of practice...

...meaning he has to give opposing counsels a chance to straighten up their acts. Not that this is at all likely to happen, as you, I, he and even the lawyers themselves are well-aware.

All he needs is reasonable proof and estimate of damages. And I type 'all' while simultaneously shaking my head and laughing my arse off. There's simply no way they can do that.

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Thumb Up

wow

It looks like Apple will have to start focusing on producing a more competitive product instead of suing everyone and his dog over patent issues. This could be the rebirth of a new Apple computing which produces innovative products like Apple used to be.

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Doesn't this just mean that Apple won't be able to sue Motorola over Patent X again, only?

As in, they can persue some other firm over Patent X, or Motorola for Patent Y, Patent Z, etc?

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MrF
Trollface

Exactly, but...

...if this kind of (highly sensible) ruling becomes the fashion -- and, after all, that's what 'precedent' is for -- then even a blatant troll like Apple will eventually go back under their expensively accoutered bridge, to stroke their Steven P. Jobs fetish dolls and grumble pathetically about how the world doesn't deserve their creative genius.

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Thumb Up

I have a dream

that the respective Android and iPhone users will both rejoice in this clear bit of patent sanity and join hands and hug. Unicorns will dance in the sky. Greece will balance its budget on its own.

Kumbaya kumbaya, my Lord.

(Sorry, dreaming)

I do hope that regardless of our system preferences we welcome that silly patenting may be getting a well-deserved kick in the nethers (see also Oracle-Google Android ruling).

Tech companies should prevail on tech, not on lawyer savvy. Unless there is real infringement of non-trivial stuff going on.

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Mushroom

Hang the lot of them

I'd like to patent breathing so I can not licsence it to Apple and watch them and their lawyers suffocate because that is basically what they are trying to do to the mobile world. "Finger swiping was my idea, you can't use it. So was the light switch, you can't use that either. Or the toilet flush handle. Or the car door handle, Or....." Bunch of morons. Try building a better door instead of stoping people from opening it in an obvious way.

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Thumb Up

"Whinges"

Henceforth I decree that all patent assertions be referred to as "whinges", as the latter term is both more accurate and more informative.

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Happy

US Judges Getting Smart

What with a judge actually learning to write JavaScript and this judge getting steamed, things could be looking up.

Can you imagine some old legal fart in the Old Bailey learning programming?

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MrF
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Re: US Judges Getting Smart

Could happen. Easy enough to hide a Raspberry Pi under a powdered wig. ;-)

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I prefer

the penis pump under the bench but whatever gets you off.

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Anonymous Coward

At the risk of being beaten to death by script kiddies....

....Javascript isn't REAL programming ;)

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