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back to article Hands on with Nokia's 808 41Mp camphone

If a company needed some luck right now, then Nokia would certainly fit the bill. Having partnered with Microsoft to deliver a new range of smartphones based on Windows Phone 7, it consequently shares a platform with the likes of HTC and Samsung. Still, Nokia is thinking lucky because it reckons it can deliver services on …

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Anonymous Coward

It takes pictures, but having seen the results on a new iPad I wasn't exactly blown away by the very much staged quality of the photos.

I'm not sure what the point of this is? Massive mega pixels don't always translate to great pictures.

Unless of course it is the kudos of mines bigger than yours?

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Anonymous Coward

Ok, stick with taking picture with your new iPad then.

Or, view the pictures on a real monitor.

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The new iPad has more resolution than many monitors. What is a "real" monitor given the quality of them varies so much. Not to mention you should really calibrate a monitor with a calibration device.

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Not just massive megapixels

This isn't just about the megapixels. The sensor size (1/1.2in) is such that each of those pixels is larger than many phone (or compact) cameras, making them usable individually (ie without binning). So you get zoom functionality without significant loss of quality. Or alternatively take pictures at 5MPx (plenty for most uses) and get the benefits of pixel binning (good low-light performance etc).

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This conversation again?

The raw pixels are used to create a sharper, "normal" resolution image using a proprietary processing algorithm.

- the output is not 41MP

- the sensor is HUGE, so it's not just an excercise in shrinking pixels

- the lens is very high quality (and F2.4), not your average phone lens

- it has a separate processor for images

- Microsoft has tight hardware specs on WinPho, so it cannot used with specialized hardware like this

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Anonymous Coward

What is a "real" monitor?

So the screen on the iPad is better than say, an apple cinema display? Riggggght.

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Windows

Re: What is a "real" monitor?

I ready your comment as Apple Cinnamon display.

Now that would be an innovation!

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Trollface

Re: having seen the results on a new iPad

Fanboi misses the point shocker.

did you read a single word of this article. or are you still waiting for permission from Cupertino?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not just massive megapixels

But they could have just increased the sensor size at a modest MP count, say 10MP.

From the review it seems laggy even in bright conditions and sticking a low resolution screen to the phone doesn't help its "wow" factor.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This conversation again?

"Microsoft has tight hardware specs on WinPho, so it cannot used with specialized hardware like this"

Yes, and to me that is one of the biggest problems with WinPho right now. Its never going to stand out when the hardware is restricted to being so .... meh.

I assume this is because the OS is so half-baked and so MS it cant support a wide range of hardware?

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FAIL

Luck?

Ever though of what the situation would be today had Nokia not "partnered" with microsoft? We see now, 80% of the smartphone market is split between Android and Apple. Of the Android share, Samsung is the runaway success. Boy, are they glad Blamer stuffed his trojan in. Had Nokia gone with Android instead, its almost certain the current Samsung share would be split evenly between them - possibly even with Nokia edging it. All those weasley words about "not being able to differentate enough" hasn't harmed them a jot, and was clearly a straw man given the (then) talent at Nokia. Instead we see this rounding-error 1.5% market share, with 101 reasons anyone not forced to avoids it like the plague.

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Re: Luck?

Indeed, you make your own luck in life.

Nokia were in shitstreet the day ex-Microsoft Elop took over..

Windows Phone is a dire experience, and consumers are voting with their wallets, the vast majority of the dire Lumia sales numbers are freebie bribe handsets and "shipped but gathering dust in storerooms".

Had they took the logical choice and gone the Android route, it could have been so different. They share price wouldn't be classed as "junk" and valued at less than $3 with the likelihood it will be $2 by the end of the summer.

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They still have a more or less future proof platform

They have feature phones executing J2ME software. That is, compared to probably even Android and IOS, a fairly future proof platform as there is a lot of software around and you need nothing specialized for the phone. To bad this isn't to heavily publicized.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Luck?

I realised Nokia were up the creak when I got the N900. Lovely hardware (bar the resistive TS), terrible software and support.

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Why did they need to replace Symbian?

The issue with Symbian was a grotty interface.

As I understand it, they fixed that for the N8.

The core is good, with excellent battery life.

I hope the 808 is a huge success.

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Re: Luck?

I like the resistive screen. It helps to make it feel more like a internet tablet than a phone (which it is really). While it could to with a slighter faster CPU and more RAM it can still do things that I haven't seen any other phone can match. Plus there's a fairly active developer community still plugging away. Even if I am able to get my hands on a pureview I will still keep it as a portable media centre and for internet access.

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Stop

Re: Why did they need to replace Symbian?

Because Microsoft said so....

The only reason the Pureview exists, is the CPU needed for it can't run Windows Phone OS.

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FAIL

Re: Luck?

"Had Nokia gone with Android instead, its almost certain the current Samsung share would be split evenly between them - possibly even with Nokia edging it."

Almost certain? How did you work that out? It is most bloody well not 'almost certain' to me.

"Instead we see this rounding-error 1.5% market share, with 101 reasons anyone not forced to avoids it like the plague."

The 101 reasons piece is mostly lies. (http://mynokiablog.com/2012/05/10/windows-phone-myths-debunked-the-truth/)

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Re: Luck?

While agree there are probably considerable less than 101 reason to avoid a Windows Phone. This article is very light on 'debunking'. Mostly it just states that features missing aren't required, not the same thing at all.

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Re: Why did they need to replace Symbian? "Barry

The reason that the Pureview isn't on WinPho is that the GPU that handles the camera doesn't support WInPho, and all the other GPU's out there that do support WinPho (and I think Android) are incapable of handling a sensor of this size. Which is why you will only see this sort of tech on Symbian for quite some time.

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Re: Luck?

"Almost certain? How did you work that out? It is most bloody well not 'almost certain' to me."

No it's probably even worse because with Android 5 companies are fighting for the crown. Not to mention parasitic Microsoft who's feeding of most of those companies.

"The 101 reasons piece is mostly lies."

No they're not.

1) WP HAS limited multitasking. Period!

2) Zune conversions suck! They take way too much time. As for: Which OS natively support DivX/Xvid...Symbian S^3, Nokia Belle and Belle FP1

3) " There is Mass storage mode but it has to be tweaked"... WTF... Tweaking is not allowed. It's not because you CAN (with enough technical knowledge) that Microsoft likes you to do it. In essence there's NO mass-storage out of the box. Not like e.g. an Android or Symbian device.

4) No micro-SD card support. Coming in Windows 8 <--- here we go again. WP8 WILL be NOT be released for present handsets!

5) "just no current phones with larger storage-" So in essence you're STUCK with 16GB. And NO, Skydrive is no more of an alternative than iCloud!

and I can go on.

e.g.

8.) how is this an issue? <--- some corporate users are prohibited from storing valuable client-data on clouds! It's called client-confidentiality.

Fact is WP7 can't do half the things it's (flawed) predecessor can let alone Android or Symbian.

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I have seen the lumia 800 for £15 a month with £100 headphones thrown in. There were weren't that many minutes and a low data limit but had unlimited texts. Still, waiting for that pureview to come in before I make up my mind.

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blimey...

Why is that the same old people every time feel the need to tell the world about their own hatred of something?

We get it, you don't like it. But you know what, many people do!

And Barry, why do YOU pop up every time with the same old FUD? Do you just copy and paste?

Windows phone simly isn't a 'dire' experience. You can 'not like' it, but dire? Get real. If you want to moan about something, at least use realistic targets.

EVERY time a windows phone pops up, the same few people shout up and say the same old things.

It's boring. Move on. You seem to hate it, and yet you are attracted like moths to every single WP post...

It's like beaten wife syndrome.

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Facepalm

Re: blimey...

Yes everyone - stop reminding everyone how genuinely evil microsoft is, so they can continue being so.

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Re: blimey...

More evil than Google?

More evil than Apple?

More evil than Oracle?

Highly unlikely, in all cases.

If you want evil-free, you're shit out of luck. So pick your evil-of-choice and shut the fuck up.

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Re: blimey...

I have a Lumia 800 and love it, it's a fantastic OS for a phone which will only get better with time (and if rumours are true the 800 will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8 too!)

I also have an iPhone which I detest, my mother has an Android which she seems to enjoy but I'll be switching for a WinPho7 phone once the contract expires.

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Re: blimey...

Every time a Windows Phone article pops up, the same old Redmond/Reading accounts start posting overly positive things about an OS that's less relevant than WebOS.

Windows Phone is dead. The only people saying other otherwise, as those employed by Nokrosoft.

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WTF?

Re: blimey...

No Lumia Windows 8 upgrades. Microsoft and Nokia have been dodging that question for months, simply because they know the answer....

Lumia is an end-of-line product.

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Re: blimey...

Weird that....

Linky yep, seems that Win 8 is coming to current gen phones :)

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Re: blimey...

As i said, Barry, moths to a flame...

You just can't help yourself can you?

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Re: blimey...

Oh, and Barry, you may wish to observe that the first ones in ANY WP post are the same couple of poeple spouting the same old rubbish about it...

The 'positive' ones only post in response to your crap.

But of course, simple truths won't get in the way of your astonishingly blinkered view, will it?

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Re: blimey...

NoWin - the most aptly named partnership in tech.

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Linux

Re: blimey...

Paybacks a bitch. Especially when there's 25 fucking years if it to make up for.

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FAIL

Re: blimey...

Poor Bob, still dreaming about Steve Ballmer touching him in a bad place.

Get over yourself. Linux on the desktop failed. Wanting something else to fail just to make up for it won't change that.

And, incidentally, I don't remember hordes of Microsoft trolls popping out of the woodwork on every linux/Android/FOSS article to say how shit it it is.

And finally, don't you fucking dare accuse me being paid by MS. I'm not. I work for a living. You and Barry enjoy college while you can.

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FAIL

Re: blimey...

http://goo.gl/ElWr9

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Re: blimey...

Crazy, isn't it? 2001, I remember it well.

So Bob, is THAT the sole reason why you criticize and spread FUD about every single MS-related product on the Reg?

Some sort of vengeance for an eleven-year-dead party line?

You sad little prick.

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@Dave's Jubblies

"The 'positive' [for Windows] ones only post in response to your crap."

That's a reflection of how irrelevant the Reg is. The paid shills are too busy actively monitoring influential sites like SlashDot and getting a remarkable number of 1st posts in. Sometimes managing 100's of words in mere seconds... no funny business going on there ;)

The Reg has to make do with amateurs pushing the party li[n]e.

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Happy

Re: blimey...

http://goo.gl/0t3qt

At no point on this forum have I ever insulted another member, and I shall not do now. Instead I'll let the other readers draw their own conclusions from your post, the way the market has done so with WP7.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: blimey...

You know that's still rumor, and Microsoft will happily sell phones to idiots of the back of it, and then distance themselves from it when it turns out to be untrue.

Watch this all turn sour. Not that it matters, as everyone knows, very few REAL people have Lumias anyway, so Nokrosoft can crap on them without problem, there will be plenty of paid-for bloggers spinning happy stories to counteract it.

If you think that the Lumia 610 will get Windows Phone 8, then you sir are a total cretin. Everything except the Lumia 900 struggles with i's current OS, and it's not getting lighter....

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FAIL

Re: blimey...

Of course, in the land of the Fandroids, every Android handset is automatically kept up-to-date with the very latest code from the Chocolate Factory as soon as it's released.

Pot, meet Kettle.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: blimey...

It does rather beg the question as to why Barry and Bob are so vitriolic. My best guess is that they were either turned down for a position at MS or were 'let go' from a position at MS for poor performance. That might explain some of the keyboard thumping anger we see every time there is an MS related post.

Or, perhaps they worked at a Novell reseller, or a Corel reseller, or an Notes reseller or a Sun reseller (I could go on for a while here)....

Either way, they would do well to get their cheap shots in early as the one thing I have learned about MS is that if they want to break in to a market they will just keep pushing and pushing and pushing until they succeed. They never fail. No doubt someone will jump up and say 'what about Bob & Kin' but they were not core business areas, they were little side projects. The parallels would be Bing (30% market share in the US now I believe) and Xbox.

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Re: blimey...

Funny, I too have a Lumia 800 which I 'detest' and a Nokia 701 which I love.

I'll give some geniune remarks.

Things I hate on Lumia 800/WP7.5

- No haptic feedback. Not even on keyboard. Only 3 standard bottom-keys have haptic feedback (can be disabled in settings).

- Skydrive integration in Pictures works great but uploading photos scales them down instead of keeping original size

---> You need the seperate Skydrive app to upload original size?!?!?

- No Screen orientation lock. Particularly important in Nokia Drive (or other navigation tools)

---> is not a Microsoft fault perse. Nokia can simply add screen orientation lock in Nokia Drive and/or Nokia maps.

- No contacts or agenda integration in Nokia Drive (unlike Symbian version)

- Nokia Drive has less settings like route-priorities (avoid toll or ferry, etc...) and no clear list of POI's

---> you can 'search' for a POI which works but there's no option to automatically show POI's of your choice.

- Nokia Maps only works ONLINE. It automatically switches to satelite view when zoomed in far enough.

- Browser sometimes crashes or behaves eratically slow.

- costumisations are poor

---> Only Ringtones can be added (of particular size, format and genre). You can't add SMS-, voicemail- or email-tones.

---> You're stuck with black or white bgnd and a limited set of 11 accentcolours

- No call recording (increasingly important as more and more countries ban cellphone usage while driving)

- No front facing camera (no videocalling possible not even 'standard 3G videocalling')

---> this only on Lumia 800/710. Lumia 900 has front-camera which suposedly works in Skype. Dunno if 'normal' 3G videocall work too on L900.

- No local USB syncing with local contacts and agenda (e.g. outlook 20xx).

---> Vista's mobility center doesn't even work with WP7.x (though this was created with mobile syncing in mind). Client-confidentiality doesn't allow me to put clients data 'in the cloud'.

- No file manager!

---> No bluetooth file transfer (not even photos and ringtones)

---> No wifi SMB/CIF file transfer either

- battery last just one day.

---> only USB charging. Standard Nokia 2mm pin-chargers aren't compatible

- signal strength bar and battery-status dissapears, can be seen by swiping on top of phone but only in portrait mode.

- No full multitasking. Many things, like e.g. downloading items, stop when phone goes in standby/sleep.

- taskmanager is not a 'manager' (e.g. you cannot quit a program) but only a simple taskswitcher

- audio is not very loud (ringtones) and not much bass (compared to Nokia 701)

---> even the earpiece sounds tiny compared to e.g. Nokia 701

- Radio has no RDS (though specs indicate otherwise)

---> you cannot play radio over speaker only through headphones.

- screen is beautifully crafted but...

---> Pentatile screen is not sharp with small text although it has more pixels.

---> Colours are way too saturated. Not adjustable (unlike e.g. Samsung SGS2)

-----> CBD is less effective on Lumia 800 than the version on Nokia 701 (IPS LCD)

Things I like about the Lumia 800/WP7.5

- initial use is fast and so is startup

- easy to use and easy to find stuff

- screen rotation works great. Where used, it works both in left and right rotation (Symbian auto-rotate only works in left rotation). Sometimes used to good effect as witnessed in the calculator.

- calculator is great. Rotate phone left and right gives different calculators, besides the portraid standard calculator.

- Great twitter, linkedln and facebook integration in contacts plus possibility of filtering between these.

- camera button activates camera even when locked (can be turned off in settings)

- lovely design, great included rubber cover.

Unfortunatly the minus points outweight the plus points. Particularly local PC syncing and call-recording are important issues for me. The latter is in fact the only thing that keeps me on Symbian.

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Facepalm

Re: blimey...

@AC 22:16 But "Microsoft’s Bing uses Google search results—and denies it" : http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-google-search.html

That article is still up there. Gosh, you'd have thought, bearing in mind all the zillions of ways its apologists have tried to point out it's flaws, *something* would have been done to bring it down in the year and a half since it went up. Or could its second sentence actually be irrefutably true: "However you define copying, the bottom line is, these Bing results came directly from Google."?

Again, I make zero comment on any other member of this forum. A pattern is forming here. Perhaps a "get the facts" campaign would be useful?

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Anonymous Coward

Poor old nokia...

...Just imagine if those phones were running android. There's a serious lack of decent £15-a-month class smartphones, and a serious lack of good cameraphones, plus the industrial design on their flagship WP phone is peerless. Really, really sad that they're tied to that sinking ship of a platform.

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808, Nero reference?

Nero are pretty fond of the number 808.

Is it possible that one of the Nokia people in charge of naming phones is a possible Nero fan?

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Re: 808, Nero reference?

Probably a coincidence. Historically, Nokia named most of their phones after PIN codes.

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Re: 808, Nero reference?

Shame, would have been good if this phone was referred to as the 'Dub Step' phone

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Meh

Question for the Windows Phone executive

Again the message from MS was to “Offer a third ecosystem to the market” with Martine’s figures of 85,000 WinPho 7 apps, growing at a rate of 300 a day and 110,000 developers on board, suggesting that beyond iOS and Android, the third way is certainly gaining traction.

How many of those applications won't run on the Lumia 610 due to memory and CPU limitations?

We already know about Skype and Nokia TV that will not work with the Lumia 610... presumably any of the more capable apps in the market place will be similarly incompatible with the under resourced budget device. Question is, how many? And is this the start of fragmentation...

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Holmes

Re: Question for the Windows Phone executive

The app-yoinking is kind of strange. All of these apps do apparently run (according to WPCentral) but Nokia have pulled them anyway. In the case of Skype, it won't be missed because it sucks to all hell on WP anyway at the moment.

The apps are also still available for the Dell Venue Pro which has similar processor/memory constraints which is telling.

So wait and see, I suppose.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Question for the Windows Phone executive

No Angry Birds for the Lumia 610 - lol!

Engadget: Angry Birds and PES 2012 join Skype: won't work on Windows Phones with 256MB RAM

Has anyone ever heard of a smartphone that cannot run Angry Birds? They have now!

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