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back to article TfL delays wave-and-pay tickets until 2013

Transport for London's (TfL's) plan to introduce contactless ticketing across the whole of its network is likely to happen in 2013, and will not be completed by the end of 2012 as previously announced by the authority. In October 2010, TfL said it wanted to introduce contactless technology across its transport network by the end …

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Anonymous Coward

Good to see

It's good to see that they're not rushing out the system and taking proper time to make it robust. The load and wear and tear on contactless terminals in such a high volume use area as the underground will be far different to Greggs or Costa. It's also good to see that they've got a tactical solution for the Olympics.

As for "invisible pick pocketing" - It won't take them long to solve this problem, because you need a merchant account to pay the money into and for that you need a bank to know where you live and have agreed your business plan. If someone with a contactless terminal (one of the GPS ones) tried to wander through crowds in the Underground, they'd get picked up pretty quickly, if only by unusual activity on their merchant account.

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Anonymous Coward

How does it know what you want?

So, as usual, I wave my wallet over the card reader and rather than using my Oyster card the system debits my credit card.

Does this mean I need to remove my Oyster card from my wallet every time I get on the tube?

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Holmes

Re: How does it know what you want?

Simple.....you have to remove the card now!!!! If you get a new debit card with the wave symbol, something like )))) then if you have that and an Oyster in your wallet the Oyster will not pick up and you get stuck at the barrier like a muppet. At the mo I have never used my contactless debit card but I do have to take my oyster card out.

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Anonymous Coward

yet more snooping

I'm glad I don't live in London.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: yet more snooping

And how is this different from Registered Oyster, Unregistered Oyster or even Paper tickets?

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Anonymous Coward

"Leading the world"?

Somewhere behind, oh, Japan, and the Netherlands, I think also Sweden, and probably a few more places. Japan isn't a particularly good example to follow because their social structure allows one to do things that wouldn't work just about everywhere else.

In the low countries they've forced "contactless" through nationwide as the sole system in a way that pissed people off no end. Just about every aspect is set up such that the customer always gets shafted this way or that way. Possibly something to do with the top brass having been shown to be outright corrupt. But wondering just how those rfid vendors got footholds in various appliactions without benefits obviously justifying the costs for the end user would be digressing.

The reason cited for pushing through regardless with a shown to be broken and barely functional system was fare dodging, which got halved. A nice boon in Amsterdam and Rotterdam where the percentages went from just shy of ten to about five percent, in tram and metro lines. Everywhere else it already was about one percent, scarcely justifying the cost of the system which is somewhere north of three milliard euros and counting, though nobody dares deign a tally.

Also something people don't like admitting is that bus loads across entire provinces dropped by a fifth. Might have something to do with the cost of entry as well as the cost of use for the casual user. And that's without considering the risk of having your card blocked at the drop of a hat for suspected fraud which usually turns out to be a glitch in one of their many dodgy systems, but takes ages to rectify; yes that happens quite a lot. There were plenty of promises, such as that costs wouldn't rise, but with a system that expensive, well, each turned into just another broken promise. What else is new?

Instead of being a truly better, more useful system, "contactless" for public transport in NL has given rise to more and more different, regional kinds of one-shot cards to try and win people back despite this horribly expensive abomination of a project.

I could give any number of further examples, but suffice to say TfL would do well to take a close look indeed at Trans Link Systems at all levels, as an object lesson, what am I saying, a multitude of object lessons, of how not to do it.

Nota bene that above doesn't even begin to deal with privacy issues, which were entirely too hard for TLS so they bodged and dodged and fudged and ignored them, but that also need solving for a more general use than oyster is today.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: "Leading the world"?

This is contactless as in direct from the bank contactless, Oyster is contactless and has been around for years.

The key issue is speed, if you've got an Oyster card it takes less than a second to make your payment (after the initial charge up of the card.) If you don't have oyster, you need to go to a machine or queue up, it takes ages. The only alternative is a specific season ticket, which may well be more expensive, if only sporadically used.

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Coat

Eh smoke and mirrors

So they are delaying deployment until they have a 100% robust solution which for example means that they are working to ensure "invisible pick pocketing" is not a problem! Well I think that problems sits in the banks and card issuers balliwick don't you. Another case of poor management resulting in delays rather than any concern for our welfare.

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