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back to article Apple design chief Jony Ive knighted - but not by the Queen

Apple's VP of Industrial Design Jonathan Ive was knighted today by the Princess Royal at Buckingham Palace. Ive was dubbed a knight for his services to design and enterprise. Ive – born in Chingford, Essex – was plucked out of a comparatively lowly job at Apple by Steve Jobs himself, who spotted Ives' potential when he returned …

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Anonymous Coward

One fking pwns at Angry Birds, One does!

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TRT
Silver badge

Re: iDub thee...

Sir I

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Anonymous Coward

What about my 3 year old?

He was very proud as he came up to me and said 'look daddy, I've drawn a rectangle'. Where's his knighthood?

Minimalist design is easy, complex designs that still look good are much harder.

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

Did it have rounded corners? - the lawyers will be round to have words

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

On the plus side, your 3 year old has probably surpassed your IQ already.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

Ooooh I'm wounded.

The fruity fans are out in force again I see

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Trollface

Re: What about my 3 year old?

Bitch fight! Laptop bags at dawn!

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

At least he wasn't knighted for peddling utter shite like Alan Sugar.

Oh, and if you think minimalist design is easy, then you clearly don't know much about design.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

"Did it have rounded corners? - the lawyers will be round to have words"

Do you (and your ilk) have a script that auto-generates this response to any Apple story? It is becoming really, really tiresome.

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

"Oh, and if you think minimalist design is easy, then you clearly don't know much about design."

And say what you like about Apple products (and I know you will), the quality of their design (that's design not manufacture (or pricing or closed ecosystem or business practices or labour welfare or charitable giving or IP strategy etc etc etc)) is beyond question, shurely?

and, no, I'm not a fanboi - all I have is a crappy iPod.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

'if you think minimalist design is easy, then you clearly don't know much about design'

Only hipster designers think minimalist is hard and cutting edge.

Take a table for example. draw some legs whatever type you like, circular, cubed etc and put them in the right place. Put a board on top of whatever shape you like, smooth off the edges, choose a colour and job done.

Complex design, I want it to have eagle feet on the legs, dragons climbing the legs and a scene from a historical battle carved into the top. A good designer will make that look good, highlighting the best areas, not make it too cluttered so you can see everything and make it look classy.

A bad designer will make it look an unholy mess with no clear idea of what was intended and it will look really cheap and tacky.

Minimalist is just another name for take everything away apart from the functional bits and charge more for it. Just having the functional bits is a lack of design.

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

"Only hipster designers think minimalist is hard and cutting edge."

The only relatively easy bit is the aesthetics. A complex electronic device is hardly a table.

The hard bit is making that complex device work within a minimalistic form.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

What, you think Ive designed the electronics?. No - he drew a shape and then the engineers were told to make it fit and work, that's the hard job

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

Yep, a bit like the Dynamic tower in Dubai with 80 rotating floors. The architect got all the credit for drawing the pictures but it's then handed over to the engineers to work out how to make it happen and keep it structurally sound.

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

Making a laptop with a completely smooth flat surface but with all the connectors, lights, switches etc of a regular laptop is trickier.

Adding 'design' to a laptop by just putting bits of chrome plated plastic on the corners and having LEDs stick out of the case at random angles depending how the solder worked is easy.

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

>Minimalist design is easy

Er, no it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Rams#Rams.27_ten_principles_of_.22good_design.22

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Re: What about my 3 year old?

But it is still very funny. And now that I know it annoys people it shall be even more so!

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Silver badge

Re: What about my 3 year old?

>Just having the functional bits is a lack of design.

No it isn't. To take your example of a table:

>Take a table for example. draw some legs whatever type you like, circular, cubed etc and put them in the right place.

STOP

What is the 'right place'? Who is using this table - are they primary school children, or adults? That dictates the height of it, along with what sort if seating the user be sat on (stool, or office chair?). What will they be doing on the table? (You don't use seating in chemistry labs, for example, in case you spill something noxious on your lap and get a write-up in the Darwin Awards). Does the table have to fit into a space dictated by modular standards (kitchen, some offices)? What loads will the table have to support in use?

Basically, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before you know 'what the right place' is, and answering them is the process called 'design'. It might not require genius, but certainly requires care. If not done carefully, you might end up with a table that is awkward to use, irritating, and possibly bad for someone's back (and no one will buy it and you won't get any money). And that's just looking at the considerations of table leg placement / height...

Design isn't about hipsters, it can be about making life slightly easier for the people who use the end product (well actually, it can also about making money for the company, but that takes just as much thought and consideration)

It sounds like your tastes are more baroque. That's no bad thing, beauty takes many forms. Reminds me of that picture of Steve Jobs in his house, bare of furnishings and furniture save for a hi-fi and a beautiful floor-standing Tiffany lamp. Echoing the adages of William Morris and Oscar Wilde.

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FAIL

Re: What about my 3 year old?

As are the same old desperately dull trolls. Plus ça change, eh?

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Joke

Re: What about my 3 year old?

"Steve Jobs in his house, bare of furnishings and furniture save for a hi-fi and a beautiful floor-standing Tiffany lamp. Echoing the adages of William Morris and Oscar Wilde."

Next time you get burgled, before you start bitching, stand back and just examine the scene for a few moments - maybe the thieves did you a favour and gave you a new tasteful, beautiful interior!

Pay close attention to the obligatory turd they often left behind - if its carefully placed in such a position that it's highlighted by the glow of one or more of your remaining light fittings then you know these guys know their installation work! You may find being robbed adds value to your home rather than detracting from it! Imagine Banksy coming round to nick your Playstation - you'd be the envy of the neighbourhood!

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Gimp

Re: What about my 3 year old?

Bravo..

Such a masterful deflection..

STRUCTURAL MECHANICAL, FUNCTIONAL design.. is not the same as AESTHETIC design. Which is what is actually being discussed. That the table has to be fit for purpose is a given. So nobody is suggesting a coffee table be used in a lab setting. Nice sermon though. Shame it's irrelevant.

A table with 4 legs is a brief synopsis of a functional minimum. A perfectly valid illustration.

And a good metaphor for the extent of Apple's "immaculate industrial design".. A bare minimum of effort.

A metal hoop between two sheets of glass. Not exactly incredible industrial design. More minimum effort.

iProducts are dull and repetitive. If you can't handle that information.. Tough.

And echoing PT Barnum.. You are obviously the one.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What about my 3 year old?

So you think that good industrial design aesthetics merely show more effort? Well. Done. You are exactly the person Barnum was on about , numb nuts! Embellishment for the sake of embellishment. Your post belies how little you actually know about design and manufacture.

"A metal hoop between two sheets of glass. Not exactly incredible industrial design. More minimum effort." The level of design effort it takes to make something look so simple is incredibly high. but still, you're an IT expert, so you clearly know about everything.

"iProducts are dull and repetitive. If you can't handle that information.. Tough." Objectively, much like every other consumer device out there. Fanboi of another brand is still a fanboi.

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My personal favourite

Is the 1st generation iPod. Not sure if it was entirely down to him, but it's still a beautiful object to behold.

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SB
Unhappy

so few republicans

So many seemingly intelligent and rational people support a monarchy. It perplexes me.

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Re: so few republicans

Quite frankly I believe she could run the country infinitely better than any of the bunches of clowns we've 'elected' into power over the last decade or two.

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SB

Re: so few republicans

I don't.

But she still has lots of power:

"The Royal Prerogative includes the powers to appoint and dismiss ministers, regulate the civil service, issue passports, declare war, make peace, direct the actions of the military, and negotiate and ratify treaties, alliances, and international agreements."

Its disgusting.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: so few republicans

And the elected officials you're so keen on have done so very well, haven't they? We're in another recession caused by two competing ideologies; the Socialists spend more than they bring in, the Tories try to cut the Public Sector down to "us, the Army and the Royals".

Remind me again how many Empires were forged by committee? The only one I can think of is the EU and that's falling apart because of it.

Actually, how many government departments could ever hope to turn a profit if left up to the Market? The Royal Household does, and that includes all of the government cash they get.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: so few republicans

If only because a single person only has sufficient time to make a certain number of shit decisions in a day. Get a whole cabinet full of them though ...

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Silver badge

Re: so few republicans

You're in a minority country-wide... Polls put support for the monarchy at 80%+, some as high as 90%.

Me? I'm intelligent, and I support it. Reason being is that we know how the royals work. We know roughly how much they cost, and what they can do. Compare that to that great republic - France. Where their president buys $300m jets with baguette ovens and a raised seat because of his shortness...

The cost of the royal family is relatively small in comparison to nearly every republic head of state.

Plus, the Queen appears to be a genuinely nice lady!

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Meh

Re: so few republicans

Does the monarchy have any political power or is it just an artefact of bygone eras? Personally, I'd much rather have been born to just a very wealthy family than the Royal Family. Unfortunately, I'm just a bounty hunter these days... c'est la vie.

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Re: so few republicans

@SB

Is that sarcastic? It’s not as if she ever exercises any of those powers of her own "free" will .

One of the reasons we Brits don't go in for stomach churning flimsy flag or political politician worship is we have a monarchy to fulfil those yearnings.

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SB
Unhappy

Re: so few republicans

You want me to list successful countries that are not run by a monarchy, is that a joke ?

The royal household makes a profit ? What are you talking about, it inherited half of england and is subsidized by the tax payer.

But that's irrelevant it is morally reprehensible that society values someone above someone else based on their lineage.

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Alert

Re: so few republicans

Even a few Americans, believe it or not; that said, though, even those of us who aren't Jacobites are so far outside the US political mainstream that we might as well be in orbit.

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SB
Unhappy

Re: so few republicans

I know I am in the minority it makes me so sad and makes me want to leave the country.

So you actually want the queen to have more power, wow, thats a new one. Most people argue that she has no real power and just brings in the tourists. (baloney btw)

I am genuinely a real nice guy, but because my daddy was workign class I have to get a job and do proper work. I'd much rather ponce around on my estate cooking biscuits or go to meet evil dictarors (king of bharain most recently), or facilate dodgy arms deals with saudis.

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@SB

Can't you damned levellers be satisfied with having won?

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Re: so few republicans

@SB "....it is morally reprehensible........"

So the queen can't rule at the pleasure of the people but you can set yourself up as the national arbiter of morals?

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Silver badge

Re: so few republicans

So many seemingly inteligent and rational people seem to advocate spending millions to decide how to appoint someone else to do the job of a figurehead, and then spend millions more every few years appointing a new person to do it.

Waste, Waste, Waste, waste, waste. How about we spend those millions we'd spend deciding how to elect a president on something that will actually result in a greater impact to the unemployment figures? Maybe a nice new railroad? A new school? A Hospital? A National Broadband Network?

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SB
Unhappy

Re: so few republicans

So you think it is just,fair and ethical that some people are afforded great riches and opportunity based on who their parents were ? Wow.

When did I say I was the national arbiter ? Do I have to prefix everything with "imho" ? I am speaking for myself, I think it is morally reprehensible.

The UK is so conformist.

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Re: so few republicans

Have to agree with SB here. It's irrelevant how "nice" she seems or how crappy the elected government are - at least their crappiness is partly our fault for voting them in.

The idea that an hereditary position is automatically somehow assumed to be better than all the people from the UK (the term 'Subjects' may not have been used since the 80s but it still describes the situation pretty damn well) is so archaic it's amazing it can still exist in this day & age.

Then again I did grow up in a republic, so maybe I've been spoiled in thinking the lack of inherited titles is a good thing.

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Stop

Re: so few republicans

I'd rather have Queenie and Philip - if only for the comedy value than any of the pond scum we call politicians. Just to wind you up a bit further Im pro House of Lord too for the same reasons.

And as for throwing over the inheritance laws - good luck with that. Most of the UK would lynch you.

" know I am in the minority it makes me so sad and makes me want to leave the country."

Dont let us hold you up.

What still here?

Maybe a foreign trip would do you good - or at least educate you that there are many worse places to live.

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Re: so few republicans

What harm is the Royal Family doing? What was the last thing they did that would be seen as morally reprehensible and affected the country?

What about the fact that we're in a recession, everyone is kinda down in the dulldrums yet 10,000 street parties are planned to celebrate the Jubilee. That great republic, the USA, has one of the highest viewerships of our Royal events...

You think they are subsidised but there's plenty of figures to show they actually pay the government more than they receive as their 'income' is collected for the government directly, with them receiving a 'grant'.

I just don't see any need to change anything with them...

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Re: so few republicans

@SB - the Queen does a hell of a lot of work, she's what, 86 years old and still running around the world flying the flag for the UK? Most other public servants want to retire in their 50's and live the quiet life on taxpayer money.

She also brings in a lot of money, you want to impress the royal family of Saudi to sell some "top of the line" Tornadoes? Send in out royal family, much more impressive than sending in Hillary Clinton......

Want to clinch a major deal to bring in billions? Send in the royal family. Want to try for better relations with a major power like China? Invite them to stay at Buckingham Palace with a formal dinner presented by the Queen. It makes foreign dignitaries feel special, much more special than meeting an average run of the mill civil servant called Bob who is looking forward to his retirement in 2 years time and a weekend away in a caravan.

Heck, sending in the Queen is better than sending in the PM, anyone can meet the PM but the Queen....

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SB
Unhappy

Re: so few republicans

@localzuk what harm, its using tax payers money, its exploting land it inherited. It is supporting very questionable dicatrships and regimes in foregin countries, and it reinforces the outlook that class based society is correct and entitlement is ok.

Plenty of figures ? it gets 40 million from the government, and owns massive amounts of land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_the_British_Royal_Family

And @gordon that sort of aggressive childish response just confirms my view to be honest.

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Re: so few republicans

Yes, the queen receives £40m a year from the civil list (well, the Royal Family does). However, the queen entertains 50k people a year with that money, for the government.

The Crown Estate earns a profit of £230.9m a year (2011 figure) - that money goes directly to the treasury.

The Queen generates her personal income from Sandringham and Balmoral estates, which are mostly open to the public as museums, whilst also selling goods from the grounds.

Most of what you're saying is factually wrong. The Royal Family does not 'own' most of the land - the Crown does, and by extension this means that it is owned by the government itself, and is held by the Royal Family for them. This is why the profit from it all goes to the treasury.

Before you argue against something, it may be worth brushing up on facts.

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SB
FAIL

Re: so few republicans

The queen entertains 50k people a year, of course of course. She must be tired. I could do it cheaper, and the bash I would put up woudl be fun. Would be decent tunes playing at least.

Right, so you have now read wikipedia and how do you get that the royal family makes a profit

"The Royal Family does not 'own' most of the land - the Crown does"

OK, so the royal family are not generating that 230million then ? and just taking the civil list money ? Thats not a profit, thats minus 40million.

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Re: so few republicans

You do realise the Royal Family go to events every day? ie. opening buildings, meetings around the world, greeting diplomats - entertaining?

And with this, they need to spend money to do so? The queen on her own does not take £40m and spend it on biscuits. There is an army of staff in place to support the events.

If you can't understand this, and think that £40m is a lot of money for what is done, then you need to sit down and do some proper research about how much entertaining dignitaries costs.

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SB
Meh

Re: so few republicans

But I am getting away from the what is important. I would be against the royal family on principle, even if it were turning a profit.

It reinforces the outlook that you are born into your place in society, there is less freedom. it is simply plain wrong that heritage and lineage determine your life chances and opportunity. This view should not be encouraged.

A complete reworking of uk inheritance law is not immenient, I am not saying it is. But that doesn't mean I have to support a monarchy.

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Re: so few republicans

"What harm is the Royal Family doing?"

You mean apart from perpetuating the idea that some people are just "better" than the great unwashed purely based on what their ancestors did?

Sure, being born into money can be a huge advantage even without titles but it shouldn't imply that you are innately superior to someone born into a different family which is exactly what royalty does.

Again - it's nothing personal against the current Queen, she does seem like a nice hard-working person. It's the whole idea of inherited superiority that's the problem.

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SB
Stop

Re: so few republicans

I don't really care how much it costs or what biscuits she buys (duchy surely?), but get someone in the job that I can sack - or at least have a say in if they get sacked.

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