back to article Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8 launch with crap code

Microsoft has urged developers to only use approved Windows 8 software interfaces to avoid spoiling the launch of its new operating system with dodgy code. In a stark warning this week, the company said third-party programmers should “resist the temptation” of invoking APIs that aren’t included in the official Software …

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Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

....too late for that, you've already ruined it yourselves.

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Thumb Up

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

Beat me to it.

Dev's to microsoft: hey you started it.

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FAIL

Aye

Pot, meet kettle

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Anonymous Coward

What!

or like some android developers have done with their battery draining, detail stealing, ad filled apps?

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Windows

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

[guffaw] Coming from Microsoft is is hilarious.

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Linux

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

I detect the distinct scent of fear by MS in this article.

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FAIL

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

Hell, they ruined it long time ago, WinBloMo anyone???

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WTF?

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

Amazing. MS are being no more restrictive than Apple, perhaps less so, and yet they receive all this cr@p comment!

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Here is what happens

On Android, all devices have "what has been using the battery" function. If your app (not game) makes to that list or a technical user (or rival) bust your app using excessive cpu at background, you are doomed. 1 star reviews, people asking their money back and blog posts will sure erase you from market.

That is "open market". Customers decide.

Ms just tries to photocopy Apple without being Apple or having their customer profile.

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Trollface

Re: Microsoft to devs: Don't ruin Win 8....

hahahahahaha

Its like getting someone to drive a totalled car to the scrapyard, and telling them "Don't ruin it!..."

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Mushroom

Oh, PLEASE

Microsoft has just told you how to strangle this abomination at birth. Do you need any further encouragement?

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Windows

Re: Oh, PLEASE

Good point! Off to build some W8 cRapps that use the secret APIs to accidently crash Metro. No doubt the malware hackers are already all over this one.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh, PLEASE

I'm not a developer so please excuse me if this is a dumb question, but shouldn't these APIs be restricted?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oh, PLEASE

You expect MS to remember to restrict the APIs?

I thought IE was famous for it's poorly implemented hooks into the OS.

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Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

... that the only way to install apps is through their store? Because that would be an awfully shitty thing to inflict on users if its true.

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Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

...the 1st clue was a couple of weeks back when they revealed the 3rd Win8 build (forget its name, its the corporate version), with 'sideloading' of Metro apps as an extra feature. Yes, Metro is locked down on the desktop as well as the phones.

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Gimp

Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

Shitty indeed!

Apple would never do that!

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FAIL

Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

Really? Apple is starting to do that now. They already have an app store for Mac, and they are limiting access to APIs depending on if the app is sold in the app store or not.

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Anonymous Coward

@jnemesh

Looks like someone needs a sarcasm detector here...

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Anonymous Coward

@jnemesh

So in other word, Apple aren't limiting how you install software.

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Private frameworks exist on Apple os too

Every modern operating system, especially object oriented one like os x does have private frameworks and I don't know a single developer who loves to use them or trust them.

The issue here is, the win rt API is pathetically basic and you can't code anything real with it unless you use private frameworks which Microsoft happily use with internet explorer/ office etc.

Btw, when apple said something is private, they really meant it. In fact, interestingly, they "beta" tested future frameworks shipping them/ using them as private and making them public once they are mature.

Microsoft can't abuse Apple's operating system as an excuse.

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WTF?

Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

It looks like your sarcasm tags got removed!

Lousy forum software!

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Facepalm

Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

"It looks like your sarcasm tags got removed!

Lousy forum software!"

See what happens when you use 3rd party APIs?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Are Microsoft implicitly admitting...

No - the only way to install metro apps is through the store, you can install all your regular app just like you did before.

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Marketing is working

All this talk of Windows 8 keeps reminding me I have to hurry up and buy a new PC.

While Windows 7 is still easily available.

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Re: Marketing is working

"Marketing is working

All this talk of Windows 8 keeps reminding me I have to hurry up and buy a new PC.

While Windows 7^H XP is still easily available."

Fixed it for you.

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Devil

Re: Marketing is working

I'm in no hurry to buy a new PC. BSD and Linux will be available and easy to get for quite some time to come.

Well, somebody had to say it!

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Linux

Re: Marketing is working

No worry, as win7 will be available for years due to demand just like XP got several stays of execution.

So please don't give them any more money then necessary?

Tux - 'cause he/she is cheap, and I like IT!

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Meh

Re: Marketing is working

Yes but with which UI?

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Re: Marketing is working

Better support fsf/gnu for this, only 28000 (yes, thousands) signed so far.

www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/statement

Or, we will end up jail breaking our pcs to install Linux/BSD.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Marketing is working

28,000.

Is it any wonder the large manufacturers won't waste time and money developing products for such a tiny market!

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FAIL

Meanwhile

Internet Explorer is likely calling the very same APIs that developers (including Mozilla) should not use. But IE is made by Microsoft, and they know what they're doing, right? Right...?

Talk about hypocrisy...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Meanwhile

"But IE is made by Microsoft, and they know what they're doing, right? Right...?"

...but DO they?

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Paris Hilton

Re: Meanwhile

This is just reiterating an old truth. If you use undocumented APIs they can and probably will change without notice. If you're the office or internet explorer team you will probably get told this is going to happen(with at least 5 minutes notice).

It's not about the APIs being bad as such, or about Microsoft knowing what they're doing, it's about change management. Published APIs require massive amounts of hoopla to change, and they generally have to keep the old APIs around in a deprecated state for the next 10 years so that legacy code works. Unpublished APIs on the other hand can essentially be changed at will, won't remain in a deprecated state and the first notification you as an outside developer will receive that these APIs have been changed is when your program fails.

This isn't new, nor is it distinctly Microsoft. The interesting part of this article is that Microsoft realizes that crappy third party software impacts their reputation.

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Devil

Corporate stuff

If there was ever an example of corporate bullying and arrogance, this would be a fine one to use.

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FAIL

Don't write shit code, please....

.....we have a patent on that.

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Go

Re: Don't write shit code, please....

Yes, it was bought from the worldwide developer community.

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Mushroom

Re:.....we have a patent on that.

'cuz Oracle might sue them!!

<----- Appropriate icon for Oracle.

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MIc
FAIL

So many awesome comments in here...

So many comments in here full of logical insight. Which is a nice change from the rest of the internet where people say stuff that is clearly driven entirely from emotion.

I was half expecting some crap about how WinRT removed almost all synchronous IO operations to make it harder for developers to create crappy apps that spin up a bunch of unneeded threads.

Well done reg readers... well done.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: So many awesome comments in here...

People as whole are often conservative and repetitive in their thinking aren't they. Who needs unwanted threads in software when we find so many same old conversational threads here. Too easy to spot the commentators who've never written any serious software but don't let that stop them commenting on APIs and stuff.

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There is a fire in house and you care about dishes

Their first release is such a bad joke that you can't release a third party browser (which became like command.com important) for mobile devices coming with it.

Got it? No Firefox, no opera mobile.

Stuff you mention sound cosmetic. I guess it is very important but come on, this sounds like playbook type of mistake.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: There is a fire in house and you care about dishes

Mate, you need to go away and learn the difference between a metro app and a Win32 app. You'll be able to install whatever browser you want on your x86 machine, it's only IE-only on a Metro only device - ie an Arm unit.

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Windows

Too late, Windows 8/ARM is already an 'Also Ran'.

Unless a miracle happens, it's my intention to ignore it completely.

As stucs201 says, Microsoft has already ruined Metro/Windows 8

'Nuff said.

__

WARNING: Engage with Metro and the 'Windoze User' icon will end up flattering you!

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Pint

Oooh! Oooh! I have an idea!

How about document the entire API, so it wouldn't actually be POSSIBLE to use "undocumented" API calls?

Yaaaaaayyy!

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MIc
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Re: Oooh! Oooh! I have an idea!

Terrible idea.

What do you do we code you want depreciate and then remove? If you document it and people use it now you will break existing apps so you end up leaving it in there for a very long time?

What if can lead to bad app design? Such as all of the synchronous APIs in the Win32 API?

I don't think your comment has taken into account the long term ramifications of documenting everything?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Oooh! Oooh! I have an idea!

I don't think your comment has taken into account the fact that the above comment was a joke.

More seriously, if the public APIs are so great for writing a Metro application, why would anyone turn to the "unofficial" APIs? Could it be that Microsoft also thinks that *gasp* the SDK in its present form leaves something to be desired, and that many programmers might take a look into the "dark side"?

It's a bit like including a desktop version of Office into Windows RT. It's a confession which states "Err yeah, Metro is cool, but we can't really make Office work on it yet." If these unofficial APIs are among the "secret stuff" used by Metro IE, that's another confession: "Windows RT is fun, but there are things which we can't build with it ourselves either."

Instead of whining about "customer confidence" and making thinly veiled threats about store policy, Microsoft should create an API which is, first of all, completely public and stable enough that the deprecations you mention won't be a problem for some time, and second, allows for at least the amount of freedom they want for THEMSELVES when creating an application like Metro IE.

Who knows, maybe they'll do just that for Windows 9...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What do you do we code you want depreciate

Downvoted for not knowing the difference between deprecation and depreciation.

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Joke

Damage control already ?

Oh I can see it now...

Mr. Steve: "Dear investors, you may wonder why Windows 8 managed to sell even less copies than Windows Vista. I can say this; its not us. No: Developers, developers, developers, developers, ..."

<skip>

"....and so: Developers! And as you can see we foresaw this coming and issued several warnings. But did they listen? No!".

"So now I hope you'll approve /more/ investment into Windows 8 so that we can set things right!". Mr. Steve thinks: "I only hope I didn't accidentally fire the only guys who still know how to program a start menu..."

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Re: Damage control already ?

I can say this; its not us. No: Developers, developers, developers, developers, ...

Exactly my though.

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APIs that are outside the SDK

But MS will use them.

And invent more they don't tell about when it suits them.

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