back to article Samsung sheds light on low-cost WinPho blower

Samsung announced its latest offering based on the Windows Phone platform today, the Omnia M, a low-end alternative for those who want Microsoft's tile UI, but don't fancy one of Nokia's budget Lumia. Samsung Omnia M The Samsung Omnia M features a 1GHz processor and just 384MB of Ram. That actually means it's less powerful …

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Silver badge
Meh

ooh!

How quaint!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ooh!

You and me may be prepared to spend £4-500 or sign up for a £35 a month 2 year phone contact. A lot of people aren't willing or able. The sub £100 smartphone PAYG market is enormous and probably more signficant longer term than the high end devices whether WP, Android or iOS. If Tango is approaching this feature phone replacement space, no need to sneer just because you can afford better.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ooh!

It has built in obsolescence, never to be upgraded,.and a shelf life of six months.

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Gold badge

Re: ooh!

So what if it gets no updates? As long as it works, and continues to get patches. It's only a cheap phone. Anyway, MS have actually made an effort to lower the hardware requirements of WinPho with this update, which means its possible they have some sort of plan not to abandon. Although it doesn't look likely.

If you buy a similar priced Android phone, your software, on your brand new phone, will be 18 months old! With no updates. And worse, Google will have abandoned you with no patches. Given how piss-poor Android support is, and the fact that Google update every 6 months, all Android phones are 6 months from obsolescence...

There are plenty of valid arguments for and against, but this ain't one of them.

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Trollface

Re: ooh!

I'd say that with the exeption of no upgrades what you just wrote is true for e-a-c-h and e-v-e-r-y phone released these days.

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FAIL

5 months and obsolete

No W8 for this one.

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FAIL

Re: 5 months and obsolete

Prove it.

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Re: 5 months and obsolete

Yes, obsolete.

Because it will instantly stop working as soon as WP8 comes out.

If people didn't buy phones because a new better phone is coming out during the contract period, people would never buy phones

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Silver badge

Re: 5 months and obsolete

Unless W8 comes in a low memory configuration then no it won't be running W8.

I'm not even certain existing high memory 7.5 devices will get an update to Windows 8. It's not like Nokia or Microsoft have been forthcoming on the subject.

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Silver badge

Re: 5 months and obsolete

While that's true, there's also no evidence that it won't and conflicting accounts from the usual pundits (Thurrot, MSNerd etc) on whether it will or not.

Logically speaking, there is no reason why a system which can take advantage of dual-core chips can't address single-core chips (which is an argument I've see on this very site, retarded though it is) and also the publicity shot-in-the-foot MS and Nokia would get for selling the Lumia 900 with no upgrades at all indicates that it's likely that at least some phones will be upgraded.

Probably not my old HD7 (which I accidentally set fire to last week and it still works fine, although the case melted a bit) but that's okay. You can't expect consumer electronics to be immortal.

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Gold badge

Re: 5 months and obsolete

They tend to use the excuse that it is up to the OEMs to decide if they provide the update. Which basically means OEMs have to pay Microsoft a royalty and also do lots of testing to ensure it works. So basically no, it costs them money to provide an update.

Not that the situation is much different with Android phones, except that you can at least take a minor gamble and run community firmware which should work fine.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: 5 months and obsolete

None of the Nokia Lumias are getting it, they are all end-of-line, so it's pretty certain this is too.

http://betanews.com/2012/04/18/microsoft-nokia-dont-cheat-lumia-owners-of-windows-phone-8/

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888

"There were some dueling stories about whether it would be possible to upgrade any existing Windows Phone handsets—including first-generation Windows Phone 7 devices and newer Windows Phone 7.5 handsets like the Lumia 900—to the forthcoming Windows Phone 8. Allow me to set the record straight. No. It won't happen. Not for the Lumia 900, and not for any other existing phone."

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Meh

@AC: 16:43

That's also a rumour. Nobody official has commented yet. Thurrott is no more accurate than any other pundit.

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Facepalm

Prove it

I said it here before. You can trust me or you can wait and see. I really don't care which. At least I warned you so my duty is done. My duty doesn't extend to persuading you because I'm not responsible for this. It wasn't me who did this. When you're hurt by ignoring my warning find out who is responsible, and act appropriately. It won't be me. You will know that you were warned and some responsibility for ignoring that warning falls on you.

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Windows

Re: @AC: 16:43

@Dogged Why are you even still trying to pretend? We all know what's happening here. Microsoft is deprecating their entire legacy base to get engaged in mobile and nobody outside of Redmond thinks it's going to work. They're going to ditch everybody who made them what they are, and stand alone in a field demanding that others gather 'round. But they don't have the draw they once did. That flag is old and torn.

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Re: 5 months and obsolete

Details please, how do you accidently set fire to a phone?

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Re: @AC: 16:43

@Mikel - and then you orgasmed and woke up, right?

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Re: 5 months and obsolete

@ZillaOfManilla - I left it next to the thing which caught fire.

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Re: 5 months and obsolete

samsung do not have a huge track record of upgrading all their phones. Even the venerable S2 only got ICS in some parts this year. I doubt a budget part will get precidence.

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Pint

A useful way to show how great the S3 really is

Put one of these next to it. Well, that's a little unfair as the S3 is a smartphone, but in any case average punters unfamiliar with both will instantly treat this like the turd it is.

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Silver badge

Re: A useful way to show how great the S3 really is

If you want to troll, do try to read back over what you've written before posting.. you just called your beloved Galaxy S3 a piece of shit.

In any case, based on the published specs, this is going to be priced around €100 before taxes and subsidy. Hardly in the same class.

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Re: A useful way to show how great the S3 really is

An S3 costs 2-3x as much as this phone will cost. If you want to make a fair comparison pick an Android phone with an equivalent price tag.

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Re: A useful way to show how great the S3 really is

The correct way to do it is to take the price of the two phones + 2 years of phone service, and then compare the two prices.

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@fishman

Not if it's PAYG. Which this probably will be.

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Anonymous Coward

I hope it's cheap (at least)

Might make a decent feature phone replacement for my mom... but can't see anyone else I know using one

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Re: I hope it's cheap (at least)

I expect it will be cheap, as that's the whole point of WPTango!

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Re: I hope it's cheap (at least)

"I expect it will be cheap, as that's the whole point of WPTango!"

You can buy Android phones on PAYG with 512MB of RAM for £100. It makes no sense to me that Tango cuts the amount of RAM in half and imposes so many limitations in doing so.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I hope it's cheap (at least)

ive seen some cheep androids similar to those you mention and they are shit, barely more functional than a calculator,

the HD2 has similar specs to this with older S1 snapdragon and it runs current gen wp7.5 super quick, this will be good if the price point is low enough

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Silver badge

Re: I hope it's cheap (at least)

The San Francisco II is £100 and isn't bad spec for it at all. It's certainly not a "calculator" and is widely lauded as a decent budget smart phone. The point stands that if someone can produce a £100 PAYG device with 2x the RAM as this, then what's Samsung's excuse? I don't even know how much the Omnia M will cost under PAYG but I would be surprised if its less than £150. It seems such a penny pinching exercise when it disrupts the Windows Phone ecosystem in ways that just cutting storage wouldn't so nearly impact.

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Linux

The black bar that takes up a fifth of the screen space is pointless and makes the phone look silly!

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Anonymous Coward

Oh look...

You're using the same complaint again and again, despite having it explained to you...

The black bar is where your thumb moves when it scrolls the tiles up and down. It's there so you don't cover up the display, which happens on most other smart phones.

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FAIL

Re: Oh look...

Jim, it still is dumb (to say the least). You don't use a strip so that your thumb won't hide a point? Really? And you pretend that is an advantage? And three other comentards upvote you?

Lol... And yes, I have a lumia 800. Check my postings for what I think of the interface and of the stupid limitations of wp7.5.

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Bronze badge

Re: Oh look...

So its not pointless - just crap design.

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Silver badge
FAIL

Yes that's right. Because ms UI designers know as much about making every pixel count as azure ones do about leap years. Hey, I know what - on a phone, which has a small screen anyway, let's waste a quarter of it right there on the fucking home screen with a big black bar showing nowt. And, if we then find we have to cut all the titles off halfway because there's, err, no room to fit them on like proper phones we'll just call it our "innovation". Our marketing dept pays enough shills to counter any common-sense arguments against this in al the popular forums, and as we've shown throughout our history, marketing beats quality every time.

Well, it always has so far ...

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Silver badge
FAIL

It's nice that Bob takes these little breaks from rubbing his Galaxy S3 against his groin to come here and slag off something he apparently has no interest in, isn't it?

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Silver badge
Holmes

Who said I've no interest in it? Just because there's more chance of Jeremy "Ruperts Bitch" Hunt being in a job this time next week than there is of me disgracing myself with this garbage, doesn't mean I can't enjoy the spectacle of the entire company trying to polish their turd.

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Linux

Re: Oh look...

"You're using the same complaint again and again, despite having it explained to you..." -- Good design should need no explanation. There is no 'right' way to do things.

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Silver badge

You've been Tango'd

These things are meant to run Tango which is Microsoft's low memory version of Windows Phone. It doesn't support background agents and has restrictions on app switching and video playback as well as a few other things. It also requires apps on the appstore to explicitly declare support low memory devices otherwise they're filtered out.

So in other words this device is gimped. Less apps and less functionality than a regular Windows Phone which is hardly pushing the boat out in the first place. It's not even clear to me why Tango is even necessary just to save a quid or two on RAM.

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Gold badge

Re: You've been Tango'd

It does seem a bit odd. Surely to up it from 380MB to 500 (and run the full OS) wouldn't cost that much, then it could run full WinPho7? Maybe they're going to sell it for £50 or something - and that couple of quid does matter.

Otherwise, surely a 4" phone should be running all the apps.

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Re: You've been Tango'd

The point of Tange is to capture emerging markets. That, and youngsters who can't yet afford something more expensive.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You've been Tango'd

thats funny as my phone is running tango and its fine so wheres your info coming from?

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It's going to have to be cheap to compete with Nokia. I suspect they might be buying market share with the Lumia 710.

I bought a 710 last week. For £130. It's not al all bad. Actually, I'll change that, it's very good. Nice and fast, and easy enough to use. Big buttons, and big writing. If you're a power Android user it'll probably piss you off massively. If you want a smartphone that does phone, email, text, satnav and internet well, then it's great. There are a lot fewer decent apps available, and nowhere near as much tweaking to be done.

However, I was only using 5 or 6 apps on my Android phone, and 3 of those were to replace the rubbish stock browser, address book and text app. I was stranded on 2.2 though. I wasn't at all impressed by my experience of Android (including the tablets on 3 I've played with), though ICS may be better (now you can finally get kit that runs it).

It's a lot more customizable than iOS though. It's OK if you set it up, but try picking up someone else's iPhone/iPad and finding an app, amongst screens and screens of similar looking icons.

Maybe with Tango Windows mobile can do well at the lower end of the market? Where Apple don't play, and a lot of the Android phones are truly rubbish. Then build up enough customer-love to sell phones at the top-end. Or fail spectacularly. Who can tell...

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Just out of interest, my mum needs a new phone. Where did you find the 710 for £130?

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Gold badge

I went to the Carphone Whorehouse.

I believe it's down to £170 on Vodafone, O2 and Orange direct or SIM free from CW. But £130 Pay-as-you-go with a couple of them in CW.

I think it was as low as £120 if you had an existing Pay&Go account, and wanted to upgrade it, but the staff didn't seem to be too sure about that. And I didn't anyway.

As their stuff is unlocked and doesn't have any of the operator's horrible software on it, I bought Vodafone Pay&Go, and bunged the work contract SIM in it.

It needs a bit of setting up. But you can delete the Ebay app without having to root the damned phone (hooray!). The text is enormous. Which gives low information density, but is great for reading without glasses.

It's also funny to see what honesty is like. Set-up is full of dire warnings about how you have to agree to sign your privacy away, and every move you make will be tracked from now on. It's alarming. No different from iOS and Android of course, it's just they're more sneaky about it.

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WTF?

just crippled enough to annoy

Just capable enough to suck people into buying, crippled enough to make them regret it soon after.

WTF were they thinking with 4Gb storage, the cloud is not a good enough substitute even over WiFi, totally useless with typical 3G reception in most of the UK.

How many people will associate the cut down feature set here with WP7 in general. When you buy a low end Android phone it multitasks poorly - but still does it. It's easy to imagine the performance improvement an upgrade would bring to a feature you've directly experienced.

With this 'beginners edition' of WP7 it's less obvious to casual users what an upgrade brings - unless it's actually so crippled you're compelled to upgrade just to get a useful device - a well used Microsoft strategy on the desktop. Arguably the missing multitasking isn't exactly great in the full version anyway!

I can see a future where this sort of device is the 1st AND last WP phone large numbers of people buy.

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Silver badge
Trollface

If you want a featurephone

Just get a Nokia Series 40. Battery lasts forever, it runs Java, the writing fits on the screen, and it doesn't have that bug where the right-hand-side of the screen never gets repainted.

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Re: If you want a featurephone

it runs Java

I'll consider myself warned then.

Java's shit.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If you want a featurephone

Well, if Java's shit then Android is shit. Which it is, certainly. Oh and yes, I know about the different Dalvik VM and all that but the language is exactly the same.

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Silver badge

Re: If you want a featurephone

To be honest, I'd be a lot more interested in Android if it were anything but Java.

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