back to article MP blasts 'ineffective' games regulation

Violent videogames opponent and Labour MP Keith Vaz has once again asked Parliament to tighten videogames regulation, this time following Anders Breivik's admission that he used a popular first-person shooter to prepare for his murderous rampage in Norway. This is the fifth time 'Vendetta Vaz' has tabled an early day motion …

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Anonymous Coward

More Censorship from MPs.

MP - "Lets ban video games because Breivik used them to learn how to shoot"

Nevermind the fact that he actually needed to get his hands on a gun in order to physically shoot those people, and tightening up the loopholes that allowed him to get one would be a much better way to stop it happening again.

Alas no, we have net censorship and now increased video games censorship.

MPs are morons.

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Re: More Censorship from MPs.

As someone who has actually fired an assault rifle, I'm still rather lost on how a video game can teach one to shoot. Game controllers aren't anywhere near the shape of an actual gun and vibrating controllers feel nothing like recoil.

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Re: More Censorship from MPs.

Actually you are wrong. I used to play a LOT of Counterstrike and Quake in my free time and I used to have LOTS of free time. Over the course of my training I acquired a keen sense of tactical decision making, such as when to reload and when to reload weapons, how to approach the target, etc. Also spacial and time awareness.

Fortunately I never had time to commit a terrorist atrocity as I was too busy honing my skills rather than putting them to real world use.

But the proof is in the pudding that I once got high score at my local Laser Quest even though it was just my first visit. Half the skill is just being aggressive. Take no prisoners. One of the parents had a go at me afterwards but I just pointed out that age has nothing to do with it. When I was 11 I was already more than capable thanks to games like Doom II and Quake.

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Re: More Censorship from MPs.

You'll find the phrase you're looking for is: "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". And it doesn't apply to the situation you describe.

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You never more

than three feet away from an idiot when walking through the Houses of Parliament.

When did Uncle Vaz last play a computer game?

Have we all forgotten how involved he was by giving out dodgy favours?

He is just not credible is he?

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Anonymous Coward

J'accuse

The idiots that re-elected the idiot and gave him a platform to speak.

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J'accuse

The idiots that re-elected the idiot and gave him a platform to speak.

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Re: More Censorship from MPs.

I don't think it was the mechanics of operating the rifle that the video game helped Breivik with, but rather situational awareness. I don't know why Keith Vaz has to cite that Norwegian twat when he could have pointed at the US Department of Defence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Army

[A FPS based on Unreal, developed and distributed by the US DOD. Whilst originally a PR exercise, it has been extended to military training applications]

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Coat

Mr Vaz

To paraphrase Private Eye:

What kind of society lets MPs to operate without consideration for Violent Video Games?

Picture of me getting my coat, before inflation makes it to expensive to do that.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mr Vaz

What kind of society lets MPs to operate without consideration for Violent Video Games?

The type of society that can easily forget about him making a false allegation against a former policewoman in 2002 for which he was suspended from his job.

Some would say he is still making up false allegations given the known moral oversights he has been documented in partaking in. But thats lawyer education for you perhaps.

Personaly I treat this person as a hostile untrustworthy witness without anything to add to the subject of a factual basis. I'm sure in many area's he has done good work, but on this matter is is basing his entire stance on a knee jerk reaction from parents who's 14 year old son died and blamed a videogame called manhunt. A claim that the police investigating the case dismissed as only the victim had played the game. Do videogames make you a victim more than not is the question perhaps!

In summary for those using Windows 8 metro - Oi Vaz No

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I think Mr Vaz needs to take a long hard think about what it is he is trying to get across.

Would tighter regulation prevented Breivik from committing his crimes? I dont think so. There doesnt seem to be a precedent that the medium of entertainment has unduly influenced acts of terror in the past. If you go back as far as Guy Fawkes (whether he was the person who did or not put to one side) he planned and tried to commit his crimes with no external source of training other than an ideal.

If someone has an idea moving them to such great lengths, they will use what ever they can to facilitate their plan. Would stronger regulation of games like MW3 have prevented Breivik from carrying out his actions? Probably not. Would stricter controls on guns etc. had an effect? Possibly, but again, if someone is driven to achieve a goal they will find a way.

Should MP's continue to debate the affect of violent or realistic games in parliament? I cant say, but personally I dont think it would prevent atrocities like this in the future.

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Meh

"Would tighter regulation prevented Breivik from committing his crimes?"

Indeed not. In fact, if we for a second assume the unlikely fact that video games cause violence, an easy-to-use violence classification system may have helped him commit his crimes as he would have been able to better choose the game that could supposedly best hone his skills by looking at the most violent ones.

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Actually it might have helped. One of the things Breivik would have learned from FPS is lag compensation when firing. There isn't much lag in real life but it's still a factor. If he wasn't familiar with lag then who knows he might have missed more shots before running out of ammo.

Then again I heard he played World of Warcraft. WTF that game can't teach you a THING about combat. Not unless you are fighting some dragon BS.

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Anonymous Coward

WoW

Whilst a FPS might have aided Breivik's situational awareness, I suspect it was his WoW habit that help loosened his already shaky grip on reality.

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Mushroom

Vaz - What a media-whore

Vaz always seems to be trying to splatter his face all over the media every opportunity that the ambulance-chasing politician can get.

If he wants to get on (yet another) bandwagon, here's one:

Do you realise that Breivik was complaining about politicians not representing his views? And most terrrrrrrrist atrocities I can think of in recent years (from Oklahoma bombing, the IRA campaign, Osama Bin Liner etc.), ALL were caused by politicans not representing people in the way they wanted. So it's obvious - ban politicians as they are obviously the cause of all the problems!

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Mushroom

Oh...

...twat off, Vaz. This is the same "Think of the children!" knee-jerk bullshit that brought us the IWF (easy to by-ass, penchant fir censoring Wikipedia), block of TPB (easy to by-pass) and now the "I' am a dirty, porn-loving deviant list".

AIUI there is not one shred of evidence that games increase levels violence.

And even if there was, that could be a matter for the parents of that child to do their job and not let little Timmy play "Ultra-Kill 9" or whatever.

FFS, Breivik will have used maps. BAN THEM!

Probably drank coffee. BAN THE BEAN!

Even took a dump. ANALLY RETENT TO SAVE YOUR KID!

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Alien

Homeopathy...

"He is a supporter of homeopathy, having signed several early day motions in support of its continued funding on the NHS..."

Explains a lot, IMHO...

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Re: Homeopathy...

Ah, so he has a penchant for supporting the unsupported and seeing n effect where there is no cause. Explains much.

If you forget to take your homeopathy meds - do you die from an overdose?

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Re: Homeopathy...

"Explains a lot, IMHO..."

His critical thinking disability for one.

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Re: Homeopathy...

If you forget to take your homeopathy meds - do you die from an overdose?

No that happens when you drink a glass of water

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Anonymous Coward

I suppose Mr Vaz would frown on my latest idea

Whack-A-Mole, but with MPs' heads.

Just a game, and not for real, I hasten to add.

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FAIL

Didn't this Norweigan nutcase also say that World of Warcraft helped train him also, and that he's a member of the Knights Templar? I think Vaz might need one of those sanity tests too...

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TEAM FORTRESS KILLED ALL THOSE IN NORWAY, NOT A RADICAL CHRISTIAN.

FFS BAN GAMES AS THEY TEACH YOU THAT YOU CAN LEARN REFLECT BY EQUIPPING A RING AND FIGHTING BADDIES.

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Actually he only considered himself a "cultural christian" and professed no belief in God, even going to great lengths to explain that he didn't believe in God in his manifesto. Calling him a christian terrorist doesn't make sense.

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Coat

Apparently....

It'll also break yer keyboard...

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Bronze badge

Hmm

Well...

Considering statements like

"We wish to create a European version of Al-Queda for Christian nationalists"

"And these chapters of the manifesto are a comparable initiative to take the initiative for a debate which could result in a foundation, creating the base for a Christian version of The Muslim Brotherhood and similar revolutionary organisations"

"It is a desire to start a debate which might help build the foundation for Christian and nationalistic resistance"

"We wish to maintain [...] European countries as Christian nations. We wish to ensure the Christian cultural framework in all countries"

All these statements are translated from his testimony.

Now granted the last statement does speak of cultural framework - however searching through the testimony thus far, I have not found anywhere that he says something to the effect of not believing in God.

Explain to me how much more is needed, before we can call him a Christian terrorist. Or is it simply that some people don't want him to be a Christian terrorist...?

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Re: Hmm

"As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. ... Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe."

"As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus."

"Being a Christian can mean many things; That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. ... It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. ... It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation [sic] but rather a Christian 'culturalist' military order."

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Re: Hmm

See, generally speaking, when... say, an islamist goes off in a crowded town centre he's made a video telling everyone how what he's doing is for God and Islam and all that. Hell even those abortion doctor killers over in the states are usually clear about their justification for it. They say "God told me to do it" though, on the face of it, they're ignoring a few commandments to get to that point. It's hard to deny what they themselves claim to be, though I don't think they'd use terrorist as a self-descriptor.

Breivik did not do that. He explicitly pointed out that he is not religious, that he values science above religion and that he is "culturally" christian. He isn't proclaiming that he is doing God's will, he's talking about how he wants to do his will and reach his goals. He went to great lengths to make it clear that any religious belief is not his motivator and even points out in his manifesto that he believes religious belief, specifically protestant christianity, has been a detriment to his idealised Europe in recent times.

If anyone wants him to be anything it's the media looking for an equivalent to islamist walking bomb in Europe. He isn't a christian terrorist. It would make as much sense to say he's a darwinian terrorist, or a moderate centrist terrorist, or... well the list goes on really.

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Re: Hmm

Very well :)

I will agree that Christianity is a contingent matter in this case.

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Flame

Seriously?

Warning: This post is a rant and is structured as such....

All this fuss about censoring porn, blocking websites in the interest of corporates whining about losing profit, and this suggests the authorities in this country have nothing better to do.

While he's at it, by the way, why don't they ban paintball, and water pistols, you have to aim those at things too. In fact, let's just go ahead ban all forms of outdoor and indoor activity, just incase you offend someone, infringe someones IP, or otherwise offend someone. That should solve everything, shouldn't it?

Or, leave the internet and games alone, let us have our freedom and get on with our lives as we see fit, encourage and support good parenting, and concentrate on the important stuff like, oh I don't know, unemployment, recession, resolving any foreign conflicts/tensions we're involved in... important stuff, and not just these frivolous agendas bought into the spotlight on the whims these Daily Mail types.

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Facepalm

Vaz

As mentioned this guy is so predictable and such a media whore it's embarrassing.

I just wish he'd jump off a cliff rather than on any easy target he can find while reading the papers.

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Re: Vaz

One thing The Vaz does excel at is single-handedly demonstrating what is wrong with politics in the UK. I'm absolutely sick and tired of seeing his name in print, something that seems to be his main purpose in life.

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Off to fire up the Unreal Development Kit and make a quick mod where you kill Keith Vaz, then dilute him in vast quantities of water as a homeopathic remedy for being a twat.

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Thumb Up

I'd play that.

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But then you'd be arrested because the authorities wouldn't see it as a "game" they'd see it as a "terrorist attack training application"

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Not enough water on the planet to dilute him enough to get rid of the nasty taste

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Not if your arsenal is only comprised of Custard Pies, Condoms filled with Flour, Rotten Fruit and Eggs. Anti-materiel weaponry includes Muck Spreaders and Badly Parked Tractors.

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FAIL

"We should restrict the sale of computer games to children in the UK because an adult in another country who says he played one went on a rampage." Hmm. Correlation is not causation, and in the Breivik case I think it's pretty obvious he had serious issues that had nothing to do with computer games.

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Vaz? Again?

He keeps trying to do this. He tried to get Manhunt banned, when it was incriminated in a murder investigation. Unfortuanatly it was the victum that had a copy, and not the murderer.

Mans a fool.

Plus he keeps getting caught in "conflict of intrest" issues. So he is incompetant and corrupt as well.

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By Vaz's logic, I should be a millionaire because I played Monopoly.

(Hint: I'm not)

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Better regulation of politicians would be a more productive pursuit to put forward as a EDM.

Got to make it look like you're doing something though, eh Vaz?

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Devil

I played Portal....

...and now I cannot look down the center of a spiral staircase without the immense urge to take a plunge.

These vidyagames are the work of the devil!

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Mushroom

Re: I played Portal....

That gives me an idea.

Maybe we should send Keith Vaz some fo Cave Johnson's combustible lemons.

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Joke

Re: I played Portal....

Perhaps a nice relaxing orange portal underneath Vaz and a blue portal to drop him down a slide covered in orange gel and some nice blue gel at the end

And once we got around to scraping up the remains, we can put his brain in a potato.

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Anonymous Coward

You need to be careful though now you know Anders Breivik used first-person shooter games to prepare for his rampage. So when are they banning paintball? And what about those violent films on the TV giving folk ideas? That Tom and Jerry has a lot to answer for.

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This post has been deleted by its author

I realise that bashing the incumbent party/coalition is the traditional pastime regardless of who's in power, but Keith Vaz is a Labour MP, i.e. the opposition and not the current government, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here..

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Gold badge

Ah yes.

Many years ago, Private Eye printed a spotlight piece on Keith Vaz. The general gist was that he was a fairly ordinary, talentless, arse-licking, party machine toady, who'd sell his own grandmother for a favourable couple of column inches in the press.

I have not seen anything since to suggest that they may have been in any way incorrect in their assessment.

Ignore anything he says. Everyone else does.

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Re: Ah yes.

SO just your basic politician then ?

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