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back to article Glider pilot 'swallowed camera memory' say plunge tragedy cops

A hang-gliding pilot who allegedly ate a memory card from a video camera has been charged with obstructing the course of justice by a Canadian court and has been held in custody until it re-emerges. William Jonathan Orders is accused of swallowing the card from a video camera mounted on his glider in an attempt to derail an …

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Silver badge
Angel

X-Rays

Presumably it's an urban myth that SD cards are vunerable to x-ray radiation? Or the police might have to charge themselves with destroying evidence!

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Re: X-Rays

Might be vulnerable to the kind of X-rays they scan baggage with, but I would hope that medical X-rays give a *lot* less exposure.

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Re: X-Rays

Yes it's a myth. There's a theoretical potential that X-Rays could knock electrons out but the dosage you'd need for that would be far, far in excess of what's used these days.

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What a fool

both for the negligent accident and also for his subsequent actions.

I expect he will only get a suspended sentence.

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Re: What a fool

I imagine that the sentence on the "obstruction of justice" charges would actually be higher than anything he was facing anyway, and likely proportional to the underlying charge that he was getting in the way of anyway.

All this idiot has done is double his punishment, guilty or not. And if the evidence is unrecoverable, there's a very good chance he'll be convicted of the original offence anyway on the basis of trying to conceal the evidence in the first place. Nothing says "I'm guilty" more than eating the evidence when asked for it.

Without that stupid action, he'd probably only have had a negligence case against him, most of which would be covered by insurance. Probably wouldn't have had jail time at all. But now?

One word.

Pillock.

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Coat

A suspended sentence?

That won't fly.

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Re: A suspended sentence?

Smooth, real smooth. Some poor soul has fallen 300 meters to an unfortunate end and all you can do is come up with some cheap pun.

Congratulations.

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Re: What a fool

Paraglider Alex Ramont, who helped search for Godinez-Avila's body, says she watched Orders set up the trip and that he missed a crucial safety check.

"I was there pretty much for the entire time that they showed up until the time they launched and I did not see a hang check performed," she said.

This is from the linked article. Granted, Alex isn't at fault here, but I can't help wonder why she didn't say anything *before* someone died. This isn't the sort of mistake you're supposed to let someone learn from. Looks like negligence all-around.

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Re: What a fool

"Hey dude, you gonna do a hang-check or what?" - Is it professional negligence to NOT speak out on safety issues, even ones that aren't yours? It IS in the building industry in Australia...

Need a lawyer icon for that...

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Re: What a fool

In fairness, she could well have been getting her own gear together and not particularly watching them set up. So it might only have been afterwards that she realised she'd not seen them hang-check.

The two main people responsible though are the instructor and the "nose-man". Hang-gliders are tricky (although not impossible) to set up for launch on your own, and stray gusts can catch you unawares when you're getting ready, so usually you have someone holding the nose-wires of the glider to keep it under control. That person is responsible for checking that you've done your checks, including holding the glider while you hang-check, and visually scanning the glider for obvious rigging faults. If this guy didn't have someone helping him launch, that's an important safety element missing - especially if he's doing this for a living.

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Facepalm

Any volunteers?

Anybody want to volunteer to examine that memory card? Don't all rush at once.

Given that once "nature has taken it course" they "capture" the memory card, who wants to, if you excuse the pun, stick into their card reader to get the data from it?

If this was CSI, they would have an iPod app that could forensically image the card remotely whilst still in the blokes bowels. But this is the real world - and it's going to be a shit job !!

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As a paraglider pilot...

that's the one test you always do - leg straps for paragliders, hang checks for hangies. For an instructor to forget is unthinkable; for an instructor (in the UK, only instructors are allowed to take passengers tandem) to forget to check his passenger is unforgivable.

It's happened before and it'll no doubt happen again, but it doesn't make it any less of a tragedy for the victim's family.

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Re: As a paraglider pilot...

Hey. I've always wanted to try hang-gliding (is that the same as paragliding? They seem closely related). How do you go about getting into that?

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Re: As a paraglider pilot...

As another paraglider pilot...

It's a horrible irony that we see spikes in interest for the sport when it's in the news for all the wrong reasons. People discover the joy of free flight through an accident.

Paragliding's the one with wings that look like big parachutes. Hang gliding is the one with triangular 'delta' shaped wings. Most people paraglide now because although hangies have much higher performance, they're a comparative pain in the a**e to carry up a hill and assemble.

If you're in the UK, start here!

http://www.bhpa.co.uk/bhpa/learn-to-fly/

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Joke

Re: As a paraglider pilot...

Is being called Neil mandatory?

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Joke

Re: As a paraglider pilot...

And, do you need strong arms?

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Re: As a paraglider pilot...

I learned to hang-glide a few years back. I had three close calls including a winch line break at 200 feet with -5mph ground speed.

Once I qualified I gave it up and took up something a bit less dangerous - motorbikes.

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Re: As a paraglider pilot...

Best guess on risk (stats on free flying accidents aren't very good) is that motorbikes and paragliders have fairly similar accident rates. Depends a lot on your approach to either though - flying in rough conditions and acrobatics are a choice, just like dodgy overtakes and trying for knee down on country roads. I fly and ride and reckon I've had a similar (small) number of close calls doing both.

Being called Neil isn't mandatory, but it does mean you thermal better.

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Windows

Beggars belief....

When, in the brief time I did some hang-gliding (before "progressing" to microlights), your fellow pilots would check, check, and check again that everything was OK with your rig.

I cannot understand, still, after reading some of these links, how the pilot didn't descend immediately when he'd realised the poor lass was hanging onto him for dear life (which, tragically, she lost), or even grab her with one arm - you only need one to fly a hang-glider. Would've taken less than 10 seconds to the ground from 300 metres.

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Re: Beggars belief....

It was off a mountain top surrounded by 200ft tall pine trees - like most of Vancouver - there was nowhere to land other than the official landing spot.

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Holmes

Re: Beggars belief....

>Would've taken less than 10 seconds to the ground from 300 metres.

h = 1/2 g T squared.

Which roughly means that, yes, you are correct, it only took her about 8 seconds to land from that height.

Presumably you had a more sedate rate of descent in mind.

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Windows

Re: Beggars belief....

My bad. I read 'feet', even though I duplicated 'metres'. As to 200 foot pine trees, wouldn't that be a silly place to fly from? When learning flying microlights, the instructor would randomly tell me to shut down the motor, so he could be sure I always had an 'escape route' in mind.

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K
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Joke

What a load of ...

... sh*t!

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Joke

"....we are in the waiting stages right now."

An "Intelligent design" would have included the little hole that you shove a paperclip into for the emergency eject function........

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Re: "....we are in the waiting stages right now."

There is one. But instead of a paperclip, you just need a pair of rubber gloves.

>snap< >snap< >ooOOOOEERR!!<

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7 hours

Since it took 7 hours to find a body, it might have taken a lot longer to find an SD card dropped from a height

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Re: 7 hours

Perhaps the camera wasn't within his reach while he was airborne. Might have needed to land and get into the camera to get the card out.

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Meh

Data Recover PR

Could be good PR for the SD card manufacturer if the card comes out in working order. Failing that, good PR for the data recovery company that manages to salvage the data. Certainly not a project I would want to go near!

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Unhappy

Damn.........

.........fruitlessly trying find a way to work "stool pigeon" into this conversation. Just can't find the appropriate way.

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Coat

And for the record.....

...you are in the shit, sir!

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Hang gliders are not subject to government regulation in Canada, so the operator was not required to meet any standards or conform to any regulations, and probably didn't have any insurance. While individuals who enjoy the sport are probably not keen to invite unwelcome government regulation, it would seem to be a serious oversight to allow the operation of a passenger-carrying business without some minimal regulation.

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FAIL

shhh don't tell that to the American right

Any regulation is a dirty word. We don't need it. Long live true Laissez-faire markets like say drug dealing or most markets in Somalia. Oh wait.

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FAIL

Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

what American? Vancouver is in Canada!

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Megaphone

Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

Thank you for your astute observation, there. Although there IS a Vancouver in Washington State, just South of us here in the Great White North (on the wet side). We prefer to see ourselves as a bit more enlightened and literate, if not always so safety conscious it would seem.

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Re: shhh don't tell that to the American right

As mentioned in Canada even in somewhat conservative Alberta (these things are all relative) the people are not stupid/naive enough to believe all regulation are evil job killers to be eliminated. Mississippi on the other hand.

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"...and is the owner-operator of Vancouver Hang Gliding." Not for much longer I suspect.

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Meh

"Orders has 16 years' experience as a glider, and was the owner-operator of Vancouver Hang Gliding"

FIFY.

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Joke

Alimentary my dear Watson.

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Holmes

Er...

You may have overlooked this icon and it's mouseover text.

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Headmaster

Dammit...

For it's read its

I really should read this stuff before I submit it.

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Headmaster

Re: Er...

Nah, that was too easy.

Now if you'd pointed out that Sherlock never actually says that famous phrase anywhere in the stories I might have upvoted you :D

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it's certainly a testament to the robustness of SD memory card technology.

I'm struggling to imagine another data storage medium that could withstand a tour of the human digestive tract.

Mind, I'm now strugglin to imagine another medium that COULD take a tour of the digestive tract.

I cant get the mental image of a man trying to swallow a VHS tape out of my head, now.

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How about a 1" hard disk?

http://depositphotos.com/2653062/stock-photo-3.5-and-1-inch-Hard-disks.html

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CNS
Holmes

Does anyone know how the cops retrieve evidence that has yet to pass? Pooh in a jar, maybe. Just askin'....

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Bed pan and a colander.

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How?

I've seen a setup used for collecting the contents of drug-smugglers bowels, in use at an airport; it's a toilet that simply has the waste pipe go into a holding basin in the next room, where the excrement can be probed at leisure by the investigating bodies. It's not out of the question that facilities like these are available to police departments as well.

(where's the noxious gases icon?)

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"Does anyone know how the cops retrieve evidence that has yet to pass? Pooh in a jar, maybe. Just askin'..."

One cup

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