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back to article RIM shares take a bath after uninspiring BlackBerry 10 unwrap

Investors were less than impressed with Research in Motion's demo of its new BlackBerry 10 operating system and the developer tools to go with it, sending shares sliding by 5.76 per cent. New CEO Thorsten Heins pulled out the new gear at his first BlackBerry World keynote speech yesterday, giving folks a look at what the OS …

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Meh

Playbook

Real shame that the Playbook gets bad press: I've got one and the display is superb, or tether it to a TV via HDMI to get a very capable portable media centre.

Only downside is the app market is woefully small, and expensive.

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Re: Playbook

Agreed, lovely bit of kit.

Shame the original reviewers that slated it have not bothered to revisit it since the v2 upgrade. The AppStore is getting better, but yes still pricy in comparison

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Re: Playbook

I have a Playbook (sent by the nice people at RIM) and it's very good hardware. The screen and speakers are excellent quality. The software also works pretty well but it's doesn't feel as polished as android and the lack of decent apps in the store plus the cobbled together apps bundled in the 2.0 firmware let it down a bit.

I don't have confidence that the platform has long legs unless RIM really pull it off with Blackberry 10 on phones. There is still a market for such devices, especially ones that go for the government certification and for business but we've seen how RIM have really screwed it up in the last few years. The Playbook should have shipped with a native mail client for example and the fact it didn't probably cut its sales to a fraction of what they should have been.

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Re: Playbook

This always confuses me as everything RIM ever said in their Playbook pre-release documentation said that email would only be available through the BB Handset Bridge and not natively on the Playbook. This was to preserve the security model from the BB Handsets and to simplify the admin aspects, both laudable intentions.

Seems like the media forgot this and slammed the Playbook when they go to play with it because it didn't have the same software as an iPad/whatever which contributed to the downward spiral.

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Re: Playbook

"This always confuses me as everything RIM ever said in their Playbook pre-release documentation said that email would only be available through the BB Handset Bridge and not natively on the Playbook. This was to preserve the security model from the BB Handsets and to simplify the admin aspects, both laudable intentions."

I don't think the media forgot it, so much as smelt the bullshit of the statement.

It's clear from the fact that native client appeared in 2.0 that there was no fundamental security reason for not shipping it in 1.0. The question then is why didn't it ship with 1.0 and the most likely reason to me is they simply had too many bugs and not enough time to fix them. So they concocted some stupid story about security and watched their sales tank when it became a chief talking point about the Playbook's failings.

Now it *does* have a native client it makes a pretty decent tablet. I think the email client works well enough though it suffers from lack of pinch to zoom and a portrait mode. It's also annoying that there is no way to turn off the red "you've got mail" highlight in the corner of the screen.

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Blame rim

Nobody, including investors and fans forced them to hurry. A device from blackberry which can't send mail rushed to market making worst joke in IT needlessly.

Once you make a stupid mistake like that, don't expect anyone to check V2 of product.

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Re: Playbook

Just because they made it clear in the docs doesn't mean it wasn't bloody silly.

If Porsche launched a new SUV but admitted it didn't actually have an engine, and if you wanted to drive it, you had to tow it behind a 911.

Then they would get laughed at, even if they did mention a 0L V0 engine in the specs.

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Re: Playbook

It's also annoying that there is no way to turn off the red "you've got mail" highlight in the corner of the screen.

Settings, Sounds & notifications, Visual Notification

options are Glow Only, LED Only, Glow & LED

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Re: Playbook

Sat opposite a chap with a Playbook 2 last week on the train. Looked very nice, he let me have a try on the music player, I didn't want to start reading his stuff.

Still think the form factor is heavy on older eyes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Playbook

But when they did eventually get a mail client it is ActiveSync (not BES) it isnt the same mail setup as on a Blackberry. It's worrying that if BB10 is the same OS as the Playbook why they don't have a BES Playbook setup, in fact on that basis what distinguishes them from iOS and Android which both provide mail access to corporate systems through Active Sync

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Playbook

But no 'off'?

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Re: Playbook

"there was no fundamental security reason for not shipping it in 1.0"

Wrong.

RIM buckled under the weight of media pressure. However, the email on Playbook is as insecure as everyone elses. Enterprises tend not to enable the feature. At least not for the enterprise anyway.

BlackBerry Balance allows them to segregate personal and corporate email. Nice feature.

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Re: Playbook

"It's also annoying that there is no way to turn off the red "you've got mail" highlight in the corner of the screen.

Settings, Sounds & notifications, Visual Notification"

I figured a way to turn it off but it's worse than useless. You can go into the mail settings and disable notifications for mail or new mail. But that means you get no notifications at all, even in the information bar at the top. It needs a switch to turn off the sound and the red highlight but still preserve notifications otherwise.

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Re: Playbook

"Wrong.

RIM buckled under the weight of media pressure. However, the email on Playbook is as insecure as everyone elses. Enterprises tend not to enable the feature. At least not for the enterprise anyway."

Er right. They can encrypt email when it is stored on the device and also securely storing settings and passwords. In fact since the entire device is password protected they could put all user data in an encrypted volume which is mounted on first login and thereafter kept open until the device is powered off or the someone makes more than N incorrect login attempts.

Good security is eminently achievable. The excuses for not including a native client in 1.0 were just that - excuses and that single screwup managed to practically sink the platform all by itself.

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FAIL

Re: Playbook

They made 3 huge errors with this kit -

1. included the word "play". If this device is meant for work and corporations then this is a stupid name.

2. no email within the device

3. screen far too small, should be competing with iPad and others at around 10 inches. Most people with smartphones cannot really justify a small upgrade to 7 inches for business reasons, they need a 10 inch pad for taking notes etc at meetings, etc.

Massive missed opportunity.

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There's room in the Last Chance Saloon...

So there's RIM, Nokia and Ericsson has just left the building.

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Re: There's room in the Last Chance Saloon...

They have already driven past last-chance saloon holiding the map upside down infront their face.

Had they accepted their problems six months ago, they could have been launching Android 4.0 handsets and watching their shareprice recover. Like Nokia, they are too stubborn or too ignorant to see this thou.

6 months time, we will be lucky if RIM still exist.

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Trollface

Re: There's room in the Last Chance Saloon... (@Barry)

So Barry tell me what constitutes the lesser nightmare for you? Windows Phone on a BB handset? Or Windows 8 on a BB Playbook?

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Re: There's room in the Last Chance Saloon...

You mean Ericsson saved themselves from Sony.

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Interesting fact

Never mind the Elop idiot policy, qt/qml works perfectly on win. I mean when they release a real os which can run c++.

It seems the worst case scenario is windows indeed.

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Re: There's room in the Last Chance Saloon... (@Barry)

Well I would say Windows Phone on a BB handset, as from where I am sat, it would work better as a door wedge than a Playbook. You mileage may vary....

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Meh

Could have been.....

The Playbook could have been a hit.....I would have considered buying one, but I do not want to have a BB phone that is required to tether it to, so no sale. A massive mistake by RIM in IMO.

So they start pushing the new OS but the new phones will not appear till the end of the year, that is a LONG time in today's tech world and hardly sets the world alight.....in the meantime Apple have done the new ipad and people are still wanting to buy the 4S while the 5 is on its way......Android have that many phones appearing which look great and will have ICS on them.

It will take some rabbit out of the hat at the end of the year.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Could have been.....

That and the stupid price, the poor app choice and price, the poor software on release and that it was only available in 7" size.

A tour de force of fail really.

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Re: Could have been.....

The 7" size is actually pretty convenient for toting around and doing a bit of browsing. The problem was it packed a 10" price tag and combined with its other failings it tanked. The playbook retails for a more reasonable price these days and 2.0 fixes most of its shortcomings so it actually makes for a pretty pleasant user experience.

It could do with a 10" variant though and more apps. A lot more apps.

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...The presentation looked like it was lifted directly from Apple announcements from 3 years ago.

The screens...the powerpoints (only stopping to replace black with blue)...the theatrics...he should have just gone the whole hog and gone with a black (or their case blue) turtleneck and be done with it, and give up an pretense they were doing something new.

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*Real IT Assured? WTF is that all about, as if we don't know

One problem may be that RIM still hasn't given out many clues about what the hardware to go with the new system might be like.

Ideally would a RIM OS Leading Show require all other systems to adapt for connectivity to Leading Programs on Prime Blackberry Hosting Channels.

Surely they must have at least one Silent Star Program to Boot and TroubleShoot Systems they can tell us their Systems carry for Secure Intelligent Cyber Protection .... Reality* Assured and Virtually Guaranteed.

It is not foreign and alien hardware that is Key but home-spun software presenting a heavenly trail on their Blackberry 10 OS Controller Screens. Something Engagingly Revolutionary would be Novel and make a most Welcome Great Game Change.

Who do RIM have XSSXXXXCelling in the Field? Anything constantly addictive and attractive and extremely pleasant would be hard to beat, and a great pleasure to lose to, too. :-)

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FAIL

Re: *Real IT Assured? WTF is that all about, as if we don't know

downvoting aman (long live bots) just points out what an El Reg nub you are fyi. Still not to be elitist welcome new guy.

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Pint

Circling the drain

It may be that the tech media have made up their minds about RIM already as all the reports I see tend to reinforce the image that RIM is circling the drain.

It's be a shame to lose a formerly innovative player in the mobile arena but I can't see how RIM can come back from this without either massive financial outlay and/or some unforseen "next big thing" to generate optimism for them.

Beer for the RIM employees to cheer them up.

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or ...

better - "circling the rim"

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Anonymous Coward

RIM have one last hope

RIM have one last chance to survive in the cut throat smartphone market and that is to Embrace Windows Phone. Microsoft are investing heavily in the platform and they are getting the key things right with the OS. If RIM make the switch now they might be able to turn it around before it goes belly up for them

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RIM have one last hope

Nice try Elop - bored with Finland ? Want a job with RIM back in Canada eh ?

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Re: RIM have one last hope

Looool :-)

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There can be only one (or two, at most)

What is it with this mobile market that all players, but most notably the press reporting on them, are so openly striving for world domination? It's all formulated in terms of winners and losers, rather than as a market seeking equilibrium.

The whole Android -vs- iOS fanboi-battle with accompanying announcements of the death of WebOS, the demise of Symbian, RIM losing grip and WP7 failing to take off makes it look as though yes indeed we want a monopoly, we want a monoculture, we want to be able to chose the colour of the device but not what powers it underneath.

I could say the same thing about browsers, where one tiny percentage point drop one early rainy saturday morning is brought in the news as a battle lost. And I could rant on about how we used to think the smartphone market would remain a vibrant market where consumers had something to chose rather than the almost binary choice of a (black|white) iPhone if I can afford it or any of a thousand candy bar coloured Android devices if I can't.

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Anonymous Coward

Given the recent performance of the company, I would have thought that a 6% loss of value would actually be considered a huge success.

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Unhappy

They need to reinvent what made them great in the first place... but too late?

They took off with the keyboard an business data (email) access. Stuff an Android on board if you need a pre-built OS stack, then concentrate on functionality, rather than on the OS: A decent professional email app, handset management, chat functions... but most of that already exists. BB's strength was the handset, rather than the apps. Fighting an uphill battle against iOS & Android is a loosing battle today. The game changer may come from the OS, but only if you can kick the iPhones back out of executive's hands - the way that iPhones kicked out BB, but their upper management has married a dead ideal and it's probably going to kill the company.

Hint: BB with a nice keyboard and high def screen, deliever some sort of VB6ish IDE so even idiots can make apps for it. And make it waterproof and bombproof.

Sweet to use, easy to develop for, Nokia-3100 level indistructable. And less than 300 euros. I'd replace my galaxy for one in a heartbeat....

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WTF?

ANOTHER developer drive?

This is the root of RIM's problems. BlackBerry OS 5 and 6 had begun to get some halfway decent and useful applications. Then along came the PlayBook with a new operating system and a big push to get developers porting their apps to it. That doesn't go as well as planned so they introduce an Android runtime. Now developers are being offered ANOTHER new OS and encouraged to develop for that. It's always jam tomorrow with these guys, and they need to be delivering today. That's the message the markets are sending them in the share price.

RIM are hopeless at supporting legacy applications. I bought applications from BlackBerry App World on my old 9700 that won't install on my new 9790, claiming it is not supported. WTF? The 9790 is near enough identical to the 9700/9780 but can't run its applications? Shame on you RIM.

Can you imagine how developers would feel if each new iteration of Microsoft Windows was application incompatible with the last?

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WTF?

Last best hope

As a Blackberry user who doesn't really like Android, has spent enough on Apple gear and finds the idea of buying a Microsoft mobile phone laughable for too many reasons, this comes as really bad news.

18 months ago when I took out a contract with Blackberry it looked a sound decision, now? I'd be daft to go with a Blackberry.

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FAIL

Re: Last best hope

Yeah I know - my 2 year BB contract is up in October. I won't buy a locked-down device (Apple), wary of a really small user base (Windows Phone), so I figure I'll just have to get used to Android. At least it'll run Skype chat which is more than my BB will do. I'm not even considering another BB as a serious option - terrible software, terrible support, crappy battery life, frequent reboots needed.

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Re: Last best hope

"18 months ago when I took out a contract with Blackberry it looked a sound decision, now? I'd be daft to go with a Blackberry."

Why? What's changed?

BB10 looks fantastic. It will easily be the most technically advanced phone on the market (provided they ever launch the thing). Not that being technically advanced counts for much in these days of the might marketer.

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"after uninspiring BlackBerry 10 unwrap"

Not sure why you think it was uninspiring. The audience were so inspired they cheered when they saw a glimpse of the new features. And anyway, it wasn't so much a launch as tipping their toes in the water.

And in RIM's case the stock price has nothing to do with the merits of their products. Even when sales were growing at 30% a year the price was still being forced down.

You don't have to read the financial blogs for long to realise they're the constant target of bear raiders. The amount of repeatedly negative PR around any major announcement from the company is extremely suspect.

Tools are designed for a specific purpose and my 9900 is as good as you'll get as a communications device. More than one person has dropped their iPhone. And Apple has done RIM the great compliment of attempting to copy BBM (so far not very successfully).

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Headmaster

It would have been nice

for this article, or the other recents ones on this topic, to remind us that OS 10 is the coming-out of QNX release.

I suspected it was, but had to confirm that from Wikipedia.

Don't much care about Blackberry or RIM but have fond memories of seeing QNX on industrial PCs in the early 90s.

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