Sad day for Microsoft
Bribery didn't work, intimidation either. What's wrong with OEMs these days ? Thank God for Android tax.
LG is denying it has lost interest in Windows Phone following reports in the Korea Herald which claimed an "insignificant" number of Microsoft-bearing handsets had been sold. The original report in the Korea Herald didn't even state that LG was giving up Windows Phone, only that it hadn't sold a lot of the kit, and that the …
Bribery didn't work, intimidation either. What's wrong with OEMs these days ? Thank God for Android tax.
Bollocks - it serves Microsoft absolutely right.
MS has only made pittance from sales of WinCE or MoPho or whatever it is called. It might have even lost them money.
They have made much, much, more money out of Android.
However to get really good settlements out of Android they need to be able to show damages. Therefore they need to stay in the business. Therefore they need to keep making phone software just to make the game work.
I don't think Lg and htc has enough resources to keep the chaotic (on purpose) Android and Ballmer's fantasy same time.
Releasing the future default browser only for ics, google said "enough, keep up or stay behind" to device manufacturers. Not directly of course.
They have dozens of devices waiting in queue for ics and in summer, Android 5 hits the door.
would be to go an a spending spree, and get the 1,000 top apps for iPhone/Android (which in reality will be the top 1000 apps, period) ported to Windows Phone.
The few people I know who have considered a WP handset recently, have all been swayed by my (becoming boring now) complaint of the lack of apps (I mean, no official BBC app ffs !), and bought Andriod instead - including my missis ......
"would be to go an a spending spree, and get the 1,000 top apps for iPhone/Android (which in reality will be the top 1000 apps, period) ported to Windows Phone."
You think so? Well the Nokia Ovi store for apps for their Symbian menagerie boasted 116,000 apps at the end of last year, and you've undoubtedly noticed how successful Nokia have been of late. I'm therefore guessing that if MS make several 000 crapps available, even with a handful of very good ones that isn't going to overcome market inertia and disinterest.
If they want WP to fly, then it has to do something different, distinctive and good, compared to two relatively mature and competent alternatives (or three if I include Symbian).
Not just the apps course (which are a proverbial graveyard, and with a app SDK that's all about to change again and make everything upto this point incompatible again), it's also about the crappy phones.
Nobody really wants single core, fixed storage, bluetooth transfer lacking, low resolution feature-lite and non customizable phones from 2009 in 2012...
It's not like the Windows Phones from any particular company are any better than others, they all suck, it just depends on the only product differentiator, like coloured bumpers.
I can't recall us ever selling a single Windows Phone in our store, it's 70% Android, 30% iPhone..
Agree, it isn't the apps. People are just sick of MS and their mediocre products. MS stomps the cool out of any product. If they are going to show up to a market 3-4 years late, their offering had better be amazing, not adequate. MS is used to getting by on adequate.
Is it me, or are there a lot more Anonymous Cowards on the Reg these days? I bought a Lumia 710 the other week. Connects to my calendar systems, neatly integrates my different email accounts, as apps for anything I've wanted Apps for so far (I think 95% of apps out there are either duplicates or crap so I really don't care much about that). It may be single core but the software runs everything I've wanted it to run smoothly so who cares. Plus it cost me £160 SIM free for something that does everything I'd want from an iPhone.
I'm not saying anyone else needs to or should buy it, but I can't understand all these ACs appearing here (assuming they are different ACs) and ranting about how it is complete rubbish, etc. It's fine. Does everything I need and does it well. People are even looking at it and going 'oooh', etc. whereas iPhones are ubiquitous and cliché. Not that I care much about fashion, but it is an unexpected surprise to find myself regarded as a fashionista because of my phone. ;)
And oh, it *does* have Bluetooth, fyi.
And can you send contacts, pictures using it ? No, thought not.
"And can you send contacts, pictures using it ? No, thought not."
Well the Lumia imports contacts via Bluetooth, don't know about the rest. I haven't needed to export contacts, etc. from my phone as I only bought it last week. It neatly transferred those contacts I wanted it to in and out of Outlook which is a big pluss (along with my calendars). If you're someone who needs to transfer pictures by Bluetooth and it doesn't do it, get something else or wait until the functionality is added. It's a non-issue for me. Anything I want to transfer I normally do by WiFi. 3G or cable. But the phone does have Bluetooth, which a post up above strongly implied WP7 phones did not so I was just correcting that (along with other things).
"People" could not care less weather or not it's a great phone that does everything perfectly.
Fact is... the Microsoft phone doesn't do one single thing... NOT ONE... that all other phones also do just as well, or better.
Some phone actually DO some things much better than the Microsoft phone does.
The Microsoft phone has some very SERIOUS issues with battery, web browsing, data disconnection etc... and that will scare people away.
The current phones will NOT be supported on the next version of Windows phone, therefore in 2 years time, that shiny new Lumia of yours will be as useful as a paper weight.
And last but FAR from least... Microsoft is a very VERY HATED convicted monopoly abusing marketing company that FINALLY... users have an alternative for that was there first, and is better... why in hell would ANYONE in that right mind EVER WANT a Windows phone??? It's a piece of JUNK.
Have a nice day.
(I assume as usual, this comment will be voted to oblivion within the hour... let that rug-burn begin)
"MS stomps the cool out of any product."
MS are getting old and tired, you only have to look at most of their products to feel their age and granted, their experience. You take iPhone and Android and a lot of it is bleeding edge and that's what the impatient punters want. Back in the day company X could say we will do such and such in a years time and people felt some loyalty and would wait, these days the first company to make XYZ new feature work at least 80% of the time wins the game and the fickle punters jump. See the sad demise of the once mighty BlackBerry to see what happens when you're at the whim of Joe Public, you get left behind if you don't give the punters new toys.
MS desperately need someone or something to step in and give the whole company a huge kick up the arse and a shot in the arm. They're too big to die but they will find themselves going the way of IBM, lumbering on, still respected but ultimately left on the subs bench in the fun games where the high-street punters want to play.
"...take iPhone and Android and a lot of it is bleeding edge..."
One word. PureView.
Another word. Muppet.
You wrote: "People could not care less weather or not it's a great phone that does everything perfectly.Fact is... the Microsoft phone doesn't do one single thing... NOT ONE... that all other phones also do just as well, or better."
Actually, I kind of like the way it runs Excel, integrates with Outlook, my calendars, streamlines multiple email accounts and has a really simple to use interface. Having used the interface on Android phones and iPhones, I can say that imo there actually is something, sorry SOMETHING, that it does better than both, and that's the UI. It's a lot neater and quicker to use, imo. Others may disagree but a lot of people prefer it. Oh, I've realized why you quoted "people" earlier, You're implying that I'm making it up. Well people I've shown my phone to have really liked it and there are plenty of reviewers who've been surprised how much they like it, so I stand by my "people", thanks.
Besides which, my phone cost me £160 SIM-free. I wouldn't care if the latest iPhone could do the same things, my cheap little phone meets all my needs and meets them really well.
"The Microsoft phone has some very SERIOUS issues with battery, web browsing, data disconnection etc... and that will scare people away."
"The" microsoft phone (see, now there's a good use of quote marks). As in the only Microsoft phone? There isn't the blistering array of them that you'll find Android on, but I think you'll find there's more than one. I did read somewhere that there were some battery issues with WP7 that were fixed with an update if that's what you're talking about. Mine is fine. And my phone has done nothing to scare me with its web browsing or data disconnection, thank. Both have been fine.
Maybe I'm holding it wrong?
"The current phones will NOT be supported on the next version of Windows phone, therefore in 2 years time, that shiny new Lumia of yours will be as useful as a paper weight."
Yes. I am sure that when Windows 8 is released, my phone will magically stop working, will have no apps written for it, etc.. Just like there aren't any people still using XP six years after it was superceded. Quite frankly I am terrified by your suggestion that in two years time, my technology wont be cutting edge any more. Imagine that!
Seriously, how much of an axe to grind do you have to have to reach for such reasons to hate my phone?
"And last but FAR from least... Microsoft is a very VERY HATED convicted monopoly abusing marketing compan"
Oh, that's how much of an axe you have to grind... Well when MS got fined by the EU, I applauded. I've been using Linux since at least 2002 and I think I was running Debian at the time. But that was then and this is now and at this point I will use whatever works best for me. So I actually have both Debian and Windows 7 here, and now I have a WP7 device too. I have no problem with that.
Really, stop shouting at other people for not hating the people you hate. If you're upset about monopolies, why don't you turn your ire on Google or condemn the dominance of the iPhone who make Microsoft's version of Lock In look like a day-release prison.
"why in hell would ANYONE in that right mind EVER WANT a Windows phone??? It's a piece of JUNK."
Well, the shift key on its virtual keyboard works, unlike on yours apparently. I don't think the word junk means what you think it means. I am after all getting a lot of use and productivity out of it right now. Not overpriced, either.
"Have a nice day."
"(I assume as usual, this comment will be voted to oblivion within the hour... let that rug-burn begin)"
And we conclude with a trite attempt to pass off all the downvotes you get for a very SHOUTY post filled with hyperbole about junk and hatred, as being motivated by bias. Perhaps you should consider making less ranty posts less motivated by your hatred of Microsoft. Just a suggestion.
"Connects to my calendar systems, neatly integrates my different email accounts, as apps for anything I've wanted Apps for so far (I think 95% of apps out there are either duplicates or crap so I really don't care much about that)."
Exactly, the Lumia is ok. It does a most of the things the other phones do, but why then would you expect people to toss their current phones and jump on WP? If you are late to a market, you have to have a disruptive feature, something new. You can't just say "this is pretty much as good as iPhone and Droid and we're Microsoft, so buy this."
"Exactly, the Lumia is ok. It does a most of the things the other phones do, but why then would you expect people to toss their current phones and jump on WP?"
Who said I did? Nowhere have I said anyone should. I just object to the insane bias that some are showing here - to the point that they will mod down simple factual posts or attack someone who just says they like it. It integrates better than any of the others with my work systems and I prefer the interface to Android or iPhone. No big deal. No-one has to throw out their existing phone. But I expect not to be modded down to oblivion for it. Perhaps I have too much faith in humanity or perhaps as others have said, there are shills amongst us.
At any rate, I hope we have not become so tribal that people will mod down actual facts or reasonable statements because they see users of another type of phone their enemy. Or that it's so inconceivable that someone can simply be stating their preference without someone assuming that they must be telling others they have to ditch their exisitng phones and "jump on WP7". Try it if you have an open mind and see if you like it, next time it comes around that you get a new phone. But we're not all extremists here who are demanding that others use phone type X.
> Actually, I kind of like the way it runs Excel, integrates with Outlook
How well does it integrate with non-M$ products?
> Having used the interface on Android phones and iPhones, I can say that imo there actually is something, sorry SOMETHING, that it does better than both, and that's the UI. It's a lot neater and quicker to use, imo. Others may disagree but a lot of people prefer it.
If this was Wikipedia it'd say [who?]
> " Oh, I've realized why you quoted "people" earlier, You're implying that I'm making it up. Well people I've shown my phone to have really liked it
People I've shown my penis to have really liked it, as well. I've just been exceptionally choosy about who those people were.
> and there are plenty of reviewers who've been surprised how much they like it, so I stand by my "people", thanks.
How do reviewers make their living?
> Just like there aren't any people still using XP six years after it was superceded.
XP wasn't superceded - Vista was so poor that people didn't switch.
> Really, stop shouting at other people for not hating the people you hate.
It'd be so much simpler if Reg forum just had an 'ignore' button.
To tell us that your WP phone can *receive* BT connections. I know that. But the fact there is no way to SEND data via BT means it's crippled at best, and at worst, shouldn't be able to claim it has bluetooth or not (I don't know what the BT specs say is necessary to claim BT functionality).
When phones from 10 years ago could send contacts via BT, isn't a bit odd that a 2011 HTC Trophy can't ? And this is not a niggle ... it's a massive hole in the features. How do you think it looks, when you are in a meeting with 3rd parties, someone asks for your contact details, with their phone prepped to receive a BT ping, and you hand them a business card. Is that a phone you want *your* employees to be seen with. Because I don't.
"If they want WP to fly, then it has to do something different, distinctive and good, compared to two relatively mature and competent alternatives"
They already do. WP7 is at least as good as Apple and Android, and it is really different - if you say something like the above, it means that you have never tried the platform. So why are you commenting?
"MS are getting old and tired" - yeah, selling all those Kinects to kids does make your hair silver, kind of, isnt it?
"How well does it integrate with non-M$ products?"
Such as? It supports IMAP, POP3, etc. so it will work fine with any standard email system and the contacts with different email accounts are easy to manage. IE9 works fine on all the sites I've tried it with. So email and browser is 90% of your functionality right there. If you want to know about specific software I'm happy to answer if you tell me what you want to know.
"If this was Wikipedia it'd say [who?]"
Well me obviously, and presumably all the other people who have bought one. Small numbers in relative terms but then iPhone and Android have been around for years. WP7 is very recent and for quite a while you couldn't even find it in shops in the UK.
"People I've shown my penis to have really liked it, as well. I've just been exceptionally choosy about who those people were."
It's almost certainly the case that they've been choosy about you, as I've never yet met a man who found there are fewer people he wants to sleep with than who want to sleep with him. At any rate, your analogy doesn't make sense.
"How do reviewers make their living?"
By reviewing things. But if you're implying they're open to financial inducements, I suppose it's possible that they can be influenced. Are you suggesting that all the positive reviews of iPhones, Android products etc. are the result of bribery? Or do you only suspect a positive review to be faked when its a rival brand? ;)
"XP wasn't superceded - Vista was so poor that people didn't switch."
So basically you're agreeing with my counter-point that WP7.5 isn't going to suddenly vanish or stop working when Win8 comes out as someone argued? Thank you. It's nice you're agreeing at last, though I suspect it's simply because you don't realize your knee-jerk attack is actually supporting my counter-point to an earlier poster.
"It'd be so much simpler if Reg forum just had an 'ignore' button."
Or alternately, if people were a bit politer rather than insinuating that those they didn't agree with shouldn't be heard. Politeness doesn't cost anything. It really doesn't.
Or maybe backing away cautiously; in case it bites (or sucks)?
It might look like LG are trying to embrace WP, but they are really going in the opposite direction.
I'm not surprised manufacturers may be losing interest (although they'd never admit it)
What can they do until MS adjust the allowed hardware set/ release OS upgrades? They could re-release and re-brand an old phone every 6 or so months, but apart from that theres not much option.
It's obvious MS have jumped into bed with Nokia, and other OEMs will now be playing second fiddle.
There's a superb irony here. LG and other OEMs can afford to release Windows phones at the moment, see how they perform, discontinue them as and when they see fit.
There's only one manufacturer that *must* ditch Windows Phone, right now, before it drives itself into bankruptcy. (Hint: it begins with N.)
It's probably already too late for 'N'. Even if they put out an announcement today that they were reversing every stupid change they had made in the last X months and going back to their old platform or embracing Android, they will never recover the lost goodwill from ditching a platform/sacking developers and their shares would tank because they appear confused and directionless (again.)
Not to mention the $1Bn bung they got from 'M' which has probably handcuffed them to the rail of the Titanic.
They called a cab.
"LG is fully on board the Windows Phone train"
Must be British Rail
As recently as Jan Lumia sales were reported to be a 1.3 million in total: http://goo.gl/2LHWe
Android activations in Apr were running at 850k per day: http://goo.gl/IXh09
Both figures are rising, yet it's not too far a stretch to say right now Android easily activates each week the total number of Lumia phones sold to date. The ratios are getting like the desktop Windows/Linux desktop one, in reverse - it's fantastic poetic justice.
I'd also question how many of these Loser phones are actually, genuinely chosen by neutral end users and not those somehow forced to because of their job, like a journo reviewing it or a corporate bribed to roll them out to all staff etc.
Before I got mine, I went out and looked dispationately at iPhone, Android, WP7 and Blackberry. I wrote a list of functionallity that I needed and functionallity that I absolutely would not have. There was also a list of nice to haves.
I never thought it would be the case but the WP7 (an HTC Trophy) came out on top.
Apple lost out becuase of no FM radio and requirement to run iTunes.
Android lost out, frankly, because of Google because of their continued information slurping and incomprehension of basic privacy issues.
Blackberry (I forget which one) lost out becuase of the keyboard and small screen.
WP7 won because it had an FM radio and a nice UI, it also played nice with my workstation at home. Furthermore Zune has a pretty large amount of artists on it for occasional download and most of my favourite podcasts are availbable on it.
I realise that Androids are endlessly customiseable, but that's why I have a fedora laptop, I fail to see why I should ever need to edit a hosts file on my phone.
> Lumia sales were reported to be a 1.3 million
That was also claimed to be 33% of the WP7 market.
In Q1 Nokia claimed to have sold (they probably meant shipped) 2 million Lumias. The question is: did this increase the total WP7 market, or was it that Nokia stole market share off the other makers and now has 60% of the WP7 market.
With MS kicking in for advertising Lumias and paying sales commissions to phone shop staff for them then why would any other maker bother with WP7s when MS is acting against them.
And allegedly allowing Nokia to differentiate from the rigid specs that others must follow.
>I never thought it would be the case but the WP7 (an HTC Trophy) came out on top.
Good great now how about avoid being an anonymous coward if you are going to trumpet your purchase (AC half the time are astroturf marketing drones paid to blog).
>Furthermore Zune has a pretty large amount of artists on it
Lol you were on roll there I was almost believing but there goes your credibility. Lmao Zune.
I found tunes on Zune that I'd looked for for ages and not found elsewhere. Also I tested a Lumia 800 expecting to hate it but found it crisp and clean, intuitive and very connected. I really wanted to hate it but was sad to give it back. Come upgrade time I'll be hunting around for the 900.
I'm no marketing drone either. Have you actually tried one for more than a few minutes?
It's also rumored those Windows Phone numbers were shipped, not sold, and included at least 200k freebie handsets to press developers and anyone willing to risk their credibility by claiming Windows Phone is a winning platform.
I think you can also bet that the other large part of those numbers are sat in a warehouse or store backroom gathering dust and keeping the door open.
I don't know ANYONE with a Windows Phone, not personally, or in the tech sector, it's become a laughing stock.
You didn't get Android because of what some bad man said about Google on the Internet, but bought a Microsoft phone, that's just as bad, if not worse track record for privacy...
Not a week goes by where I hear "Google sell your information", myth which is utterly untrue. They use your information across THEIR products to improve theirs clickthrus. THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT. But actually no different to what Microsoft, Facebook and Yahoo have been doing for years.... If anything this brings them more into line with what everyone else has been upto for years.
Personally, I blame the irresponsible tech media for misreporting,lazy churnilism and a Microsoft fueled "google hatefest" that seems to be being created.
If you want to get your masses on your side, tell them all the top dog needs kicking down a peg or two and come join the underdog. Microsoft played this card against Sony to get the Xbox a foothold in the American market, and now playing the same card to morons against Google to try and get Windows Phone a foothold in the American market. They know that those dumb Brits will just follow what the Yanks do anyway. Who will it be next???
You forgot to namecheck Barnes and Noble. Didn't you get the memo? Better run back to your desk and catch up on your email....
I'm not exactly sure why you got all the downvotes, seemed like a fairly balanced view there.
I too have an HTC Trophy (currently my time filler on it is a NES emulator, otherwise I mainly use it for listening to music while working. Otherwise, all data, GPS, 3G, WiFi options are switched off and I use it as a phone).
I'm not overly concerned about the Zune front, I only really use the Zune software to add/remove music to the thing.
Although if I really wanted a phone with everything and the kitchen sink, I'd look more to an ARM-something board and attach a touchscreen to that. Mini-box.com (no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, thanks for your concern) has some kits available, which have Android and Angstrom available for them, as well as 4.3 or 7 inch touchscreen options which you can slap straight on.
Although I'm more looking at their extremely tiny DC-DC power supplies for an ITX build I have planned - especially when ASUS release their beastly little mITX board with the VRM riser card. :D http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77I_DELUXE/
Sure the motherboard will be dwarfed by the graphics card, but I don't really need anything beyond what is provided on the board itself - results in a much more LAN party-able desktop with built in battery backup! (useful for those moments when someone daisy-chains one too many PCs and pops the overload, or trips on a cord and you're *just* about to send your swarm of zerglings hurtling into the base just to the left of you, or were just about to give that camping sniper that you've carefully crept up on a good old dose of knife).
Anyways, if I really wanted to get absolute customisation into my mobile communicator, I'll attempt building my own. Just because.
You say that we should keep perspective yet you immediately twist it into an unfair comparison.
Windows Phone has been released roughly around 2010/2011, so its approx. 1 year old whereas Android already has a lifespan of nearly 5 years (went beta at the end of 2007).
So if you want to keep things into perspective like you said then please compare the sale rates for Android over the year 2009 / 2010 and compare that to Windows Phone. That might provide a totally different image.
I can't help fail to understand arguments like yours. As if everyone should consider a project to be a failure if it doesn't provide instant success and adaption, that's just stupid. Some products and developments require time to mature.
Java is now one of the most used programming languages out there. I've been to Sun presentations where they demonstrated Java version 1; hoping to get anyone interested in the language.
Imagine what would have happened if Sun would have reasoned like you're doing.... "The project didn't catch on world-wide after roughly 1.5 years so we'd better call it quits".
Windows Phone, in the guise of Windows Mobile, has been going since 2000.
Microsoft have been in the phone biz for 12 years now. It's a bit rich to say they need more time to prove themselves.
Hah hah, keep drinking the cool aid. I guess one could technically argue that Google are actually selling ACCESS to my personal information rather than the information itself, but that is splitting hairs really. Either way, I do not want a company tracking everything I do on the internet, ripping off any content I create and using stolen content from 3rd parties to attract my interest so that it so it can then try to shove 'products and services' from 'trusted partners' down my throat. Google are an advertising company. That is how they make their money. As far as I am concerned, they have no morals, no ethics, they do not innovate and their products are (with the exception of search), poor quality rip offs of existing, more superior products. The personal who posted the orginal rant appears to not have noticed the other Google articles on the Reg today, who know, the ones talking about them stealing wireless data with their street view cars, stealing code from Sun Microsystems/Oracle etc, writing T&Cs for Google Drive that allow them to steal any content their users create etc. They are a disaster waiting to happen and I suspect they will spend a lot of time in court over the next few years as people slowly come to realize what a nasty company they are and how they have been shafted by Google
Anyhow, what amazes me is that people have so little self dignity that they feel giving away all of their personal information is a worthwhile exchange for a poor quality mobile phone operating system. Android has, and always will be, successful amongst poor people because they cannot afford any alternative. It is the people who can afford a better alternative yet still opt for Android that confuse me.
There you go - it's the poor people again that are causing all the trouble. How dare they think of buying a smartphone!
I've never once connected my iPhone to iTunes. It would be extremely difficult for a start as I use Linux....... Also if you've got a proper network provider who give you generous data amounts then tuneinradio pro is MUCH better than any FM radio
@asdf - I assure you I'm not an MS shill (you'll notice I said I have a Linux laptop?), I have been commenting on this site since you had to personally email the author of an article. I no longer comment with my name because I find some of the behavior of other commentators unacceptable - the final straw was someone telling me that based on my name they thought they knew who I was and would be going to try out the security of my employer. ASDF, however tells me little, it doesn't tell me that you don't comment under other names and it doesn't tell me that multiple people don't comment under that name.
Also, you don't seem familiar with Zune or at least, haven't used it, if you don't know that it is the hub for WP7 and is where you download tracks and podcasts (yes, you can also download over the air, but this also syncs up with Zune.) It does indeed have a very large amount of artists.
@AC 22:35 - No, I don't distrust Google based on "what some bad man said about Google", but based on my own observation of how my partner's Android phone works and of how Google - without my logging in - offers me search results based on previous searches /from other computers in the house./
@AC 07:44 - FM radio uses far less energy and works (generally speaking) in more areas than IP radio, which I have used of occasion, for some reason the reception of Radio 4 where I work is particularly poor, but I tend to use my desktop PC for that as we have a stonking great leased line.
Smug, arrogant, overtly sensitive about criticism of their favourite OS and will defend their beloved brand to the bitter end? We need a fandroid icon...
I am fairly poor, but I am willing to buy a better alternative to android. As soon as someone makes a better phone OS, I will be hammering on the shop door. Yes, I have tried the others.
>I don't know ANYONE with a Windows Phone, not personally, or in the tech sector,
> it's become a laughing stock.
And yet, tiles have been such a magnificent success that the flagship desktop product is adopting them.
Fail, MS, fail.
Why are you comparing sales of one Nokia model on Windows Phone with the sales of ALL Android handsets from ALL manufacturers? What kind of perspective are you attempting to keep here exactly?
I would suggest Nokia need to quickly upgrade the Harmattan/Maemo N9 which the Lumia is almost 100% based on, it's a bit of a cult item in the non-core Euro markets where Nokia are allowing it to be sold, it may well need 2 cores and some other changes to keep up soon, although the OS is pretty efficient, apparently the rumour is that quite a few are being ordered and shipped internationally by desperate punters...... OK this doesn't help LG so much ...