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back to article Europe seals air passenger name-swap deal with US

A contentious new deal allowing the European Union to swap airline passenger information with US officials has been agreed by EU interior ministers. The transfer of Passenger Name Records (PNR) data by carriers that operate passenger flights between the two regions grants the US Department of Homeland Security access to such …

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Anonymous Coward

Breaking News

In other Breaking News, US Officials are now keeping records of all people who use a public toilet for a period of 10 years since it was recently revealed that Terrorists also use toilets.

Seriously, this whole "Terrorist" thing is getting to be a joke. Sure you need to be vigilant about security but there is no need to store this kind of information for every citizen who gets on a plane, and especially not for 5 years, let alone 10!

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Big Brother

Not just terrorists

It's terrorists + any crime that could potentially carry a 3-year jail sentence... ie so that includes assault and robbery, as well as copyright infringement and hacking (last 2 have been redefined and extended to include a huge amount of trivial stuff being done online). It's practically almost any offence beyond speeding.

Also, am I reading this correctly ?? - the data includes anyone travelling to and from the EU (ie not limited to US-EU flights) and the US spooks can still get their hands on it??

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FAIL

Swap? Do you mean that the U.S. also provide us with passenger info on americans?

Somehow I doubt it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Swap?

Of course details are swapped. The US gives us a big piece of paper with everything redacted for security reasons.

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Big Brother

"Europe seals air passenger name-swap deal with US" and in the darkness, binds them.

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Anonymous Coward

I don't care if they know where I've flown if I choose to go to the USA, but since I don't plan to go there while I can expect to be fondled by a male TSA operative, I won't fly..

I fly to China often, and get patted down 95% of the time, but I don't care, why? because the airports are lovely and open, the people doing it are friendly, usually its a female pat down person, which is less intimidating.

I wonder if the TSA would allow me to be patted down by a women as its against my personal beliefs to be fondled by a man?

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well as other serious cross-border crimes....

So whats the betting that the first use of this is to nick people for running online betting rather than catching international terrorists.

Of course it's possible we have a list of international terrorists AND they will buy tickets under their own name AND we will let them onto the flight - just so we can send their name to the US

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Unhappy

Re: well as other serious cross-border crimes....

Sorry, I can't take that bet. it would be a crime for me.

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Its the Green Agenda

For years they have tried to make air travel as unpleasant as possible. The idea is to stop people travelling, full stop.

Just look at the welcome to Britain queues organised(?) by the (think of a name squad) Irritation Department.

Now they have gone for the nuclear option, travel and we will give the world your data.

Hint, air travel sucks, the airport, (well the west London slum airport) might as well be in another country the access is so good.

Travel has no appeal at all, what with waiting area seats designed to inflict pain so that you have to shop to escape. Then there is security farce, 'just check three weeks before your date of travel so a 'very unhappy person' can mess you about and show how unhappy they are with their job on minimum pay'.

Thank god I no longer have to suffer the indignity of being fleeced in every which way you can name.

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FAIL

And....?

The arrangement for the personal details of suspected nutjobs flying into Europe FROM the US are?

Don't forget, guys, in the rampant desire to pander to every terrorist's wish, that the flights that caused so much damage in 9/11 were not inbound international. It, logically, works both ways and terrorist acts occur all over (Lockerbie may have been an American plane, but it blew up over Scotland). So either data on air passengers is shared, or it isn't. This EU->US concept is little more than a farce to appease an increasingly paranoid nation.

FAIL icon, for the EU really should have laid down "both ways or take a hike".

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Re: And....?

I think the gist of this article is that the EU will get PNR on amercian passengers which they can hold for 5 years (though half the time that US Homeland Security can hold the same data on EU passengers)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: And....?

Yes, well, be fair! After all, we Europeans _are_ foreigners...aren't we? Here on Planet America.

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"The goal is to prevent, detect, investigate and prosecute terrorist offenses and related crimes as well as other serious cross-border crimes punishable by a sentence of imprisonment of at least three years,"

That's OK then covers just about anything, except double parking,under the US sentencing regime.

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Anonymous Coward

"swap"

Ahh, that obscure Pahari dialect again, in which "swap" is generally defined as:

"Seriously un-reciprocal exchange of data in which one party is given exactly what they asked for (and more) and the other side gets nothing, ever, except the big finger, the collective ire of its citizens and the opportunity to be the butt of most jokes at State Department funded orgies.

See also: spineless lackey, Orwell (George), Blair (Tony), cheese eating surrender monkey, Catamite ".

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Anonymous Coward

A big piss over nothing

You give the dry cleaner you name, address and phone. You give out way too much info. on social media and then you bitch over the U.S. monitoring flights to the U.S. -- as most countries already do. Are you that naive or just ignorant? This is no big deal that the U.S. maintains flight records so you can stop the pissfest and get a grip on reality.

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Re: A big piss over nothing

Don't give me your "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" bullshit. Why do the septics need to know that I flew to Barcelona last week?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A big piss over nothing

Yeah, but my local dry cleaner isn't run by megalomaniac psychotics with a penchant for extraditing people to face serious charges for non-offences they committed in their own country, or putting them on unlisted 4am flights to the middle east for some hot-poker-up-the-rectum therapy because they said "this fish was good enough for Allah" on several occasions.

And frankly my dry cleaner has a far tighter grip on reality than most people who think "pissfest" is a useful and witty contribution to the English language.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A big piss over nothing

The airlines, taxi driver, hotels, car rental agency and many others know you flew to Barcelona last week so what's the big friggin deal with the U.S. authorities also knowing? Your argument is meritless. The data retention makes it easier to watch for problems but the other sources of this information still exist so the lack of cooperation by the UK serves no useful purpose at all for security or catching criminals. Obviously if you're a criminal you would not favor this retention of information. Too bad, so sad.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A big piss over nothing

Denial doesn't change reality. You should not make discussions personal, you should get a grip on reality.

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Re: A big piss over nothing

Those records include the IP number from where you booked the ticket if you ordered online, your credit card information, your religious believes, your meal aboard and you sexual orientation if available.

There you'll never be an anonymous coward!

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Re: A big piss over nothing

post under your real name and I'll believe what you say.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A big piss over nothing

"...so what's the big friggin deal with the U.S. authorities also knowing?"

Umm, they're American, I'm not?

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Anonymous Coward

Look

Anyone who uses 'friggin' is about as wanky as you can get. Saying it is a variation on getting your sixgun caught in the holster with your finger on the trigger.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A big piss over nothing

Then stay home. I'm sure no one in America really cares about you unless you are flying into their country - just like every other country does.

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Re: A big piss over nothing

Exactly. A lot of noise over nothing.

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FAIL

Re: A big piss over nothing

Thats the problem. I have no intention of visiting the States. Ever. Not even on business. But the septics still get informed whenever I fly within the EU. See the problem?

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Re: A big piss over nothing

No I don't see the problem at all.

Your airline gets the info., your rental car agency get's the info. what difference does it make if the U.S. or other countries trying to fight crime get your info.? What exactly do you see as the problem? What you do is no secret so unless you're a criminal you have nothing to complain about because many sources already have your travel itinerary documented.

If for example you were a terrorist from Libya flying to London to meet with the terrorist who would eventually fly to the U.S. to blow things up after they blew up sites in the UK, authorities might find that information useful...

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Re: You just don't get it do you?

You just don't get it do you? If I had anything to hide I wouldn't be bitching about this on a public forum. This is just more security theatre, inconveniencing genuine travellers and having absolutely no impact on the movements of terrorists.

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Re: You just don't get it do you?

The word is DENIAL - look it up.

This information does not inconvenience travelers and you have no idea at all what impact it has on security or terrorism. Your response is a typical knee-jerk reaction without any merit at all as you have not posted a single legitimate reason why the U.S. and other authorities should not have the same info. that your airlines, rental car, hotel and many other sources already have whenever you fly.

As the first person pointed out - this is a big piss over nothing. This is the typical we're losing our privacy crap that has no merit at all.

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Big Brother

Once again, the EU member states confirm their status as obsequious vassals

of the Evil Empire. In the propaganda for the EU and its predecessor, the EEC, we were told that building this «union» would «give Europe a voice in the world». Now, in the latest of innumerable examples, we see once again that the «voice» we Europeans hear is the one emenating from Washington, via some miracle of ventriloquism. Why am I not surprised ?...

Henri

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Once again, the EU member states confirm their status as obsequious vassals

I see a few clueless people whining but I don't see the UK masses objecting to cooperative efforts to deter criminals worldwide.

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