After many weeks of negotiations, Vodafone Europe has agreed to acquire Cable and Wireless Worldwide (CWW) for a sum that values the latter company at £1,044m, or £0.38 per share. The deal comes after Tata last week dropped out of a bid for CWW, which then gave Vodafone a deadline of Noon GMT today (April 23) to make a bid …
So where will the tax for this little exercise be paid
Or was Cable and Wireless actually purchased by one of the shell companies/empty offices which Vodafone keep in Switzerland?
Re: So where will the tax for this little exercise be paid
In the UK of course - CWW have a billion or so of historical losses available to offset against Voda's profits.
Of course Tata have the right to table a re-bid as no one knows at what level their bid was for at the time they announced they could not reach a deal with the C&WW board.
Vodafone will make significant tax savings from the deal. It'd be in the interest of the UK tax payer for Tata to win the deal. They've shown they are good corporate citizens when taking over UK companies (looking at Jaguar Land Rover) compared to say Kraft Foods takeover of Cadburys.
care to write that in a way that makes sense? it's £0.38 or 38p. not both. Can't have two different units on a single value.
Can't have two different units on a single value.
Now you know why the Financial sector is in such a mess.
Fair enough. As the antipodean who wrote this I was more worried about finding the pound sign on our poundless keyboards and didn't notice the nonsense formatting.
Shall now repair, castigate self, drink beer with a wallaby ....
alt+0163 = £ sign for all you people out there with no £ sign on your keyboard.
Demon Internet customer here...
Should I be worried?
Re: Demon Internet customer here...
I was more worried when CWW bought Thus to be honest....
It has seemed ok so far and to be honest the access to cable actually improved the line connection speed, sadly the customer service took a nose dive though!
Fools! With that much money they could have bought a photo re-colouring company instead!
"Or was Cable and Wireless actually purchased by one of the shell companies/empty offices which Vodafone keep in Switzerland?"
Before you go doing to much Vodafone bashing - remember O2, Orange / T-Mobile and Three are all owned by non-UK companies - so (and I have not checked) would expect they pay VERY little / no tax here in the UK.
Also a company has an obligation to it's shareholders to maximise profits - which of course means (legally) not paying more tax than they need to. Do you pay more tax than you legally need to - no - thought not.
No one is asking Vodafone to pay more tax than they legally need to...
... just the tax that they owe.
Shady lunchtime gentlemens' agreements with ex-colleagues are not the way HMRC heads should be looking after the UK tax affairs.
'Also a company has an obligation to it's shareholders to maximise profits'
They also have a legal obligation to pay tax just the same as I do. Which come's first.... I believe the law of this land says Tax first profits later.
Of course when all your profits are funnelled through a empty office in Switzerland that may change but it still doesn't make it right.
funny how my obligation seems to be unaffected by my offers of free lunch.
"It'd be in the interest of the UK tax payer for Tata to win the deal."
Why? Do you not think Tata would also offset C&W's losses as well - then siphon any future profits back to India?
Also do you not think it strange we send aid to India yet they have their companies buying up UK companies?
I don't believe Tata's companies are not under one group holding in the UK, so this tax avoidance would take a lot more engineering than Vodafone's... it's unlikely they will make C&WW part of Jaguar Land Rover and use the losses to offset the profits. I could be wrong, it may not have been reported.
I don't agree with sending aid to India or Pakistan while they spend money on nuclear weapons and complex missile technology. Money is sent to governments, not companies. Tata have been around for a long while without support from the UK government.
I just think they have been a good corporate citizen. Obviously, they are an Indian company so this view isn't going to be popular.
Thank Rantan it was TATA
I work for JLR and TATA have been an excellent partner for JLR. They have invested massively in us and the response of the employee's show how grateful we are, Profits are up... sales are up and Quality is way up as we are a happier work force.
Thank goodness we weren’t bought by any of the other car baggers like Bono and Elevator Partners. Or we would all be out of work by now.
Does this mean Voda will improve their embarrassingly shit data service near where I live?
No, of course not.
>> care to write that in a way that makes sense? it's £0.38 or 38p. not both. Can't have two different units on a single value.
Pedantry is what separates us from the animals...
"If you're the kind of person who insists on this or that 'correct' use... abandon your pedantry as I did mine. Dive into the open flowing waters and leave the stagnant canals be... Above all, let there be pleasure!" - Stephen Fry"
Pedantary - try being someone not excessively concerned with the unimportant minutiae of life and get on and do something more useful yourself.
Work for the public sector? ;)
C&W Should Have Done Better
C&W have for years been run by piss poor management in a sector generally run by piss poor management. I can't help but feel that for want of better direction, they wouldn't now be selling themselves off to the highest bidder who will ultimately (as we already know) sell off the unwanted bits to the already circling vultures.
Nokia, you're next.
"Nokia, you're next."
I recon it's probably too late for Nokia - at least C&W had some useful assets - Nokia has a patent pool - we could be looking at another Kodak here.
It's a good deal for C&W - or their shareholders at least - they almost doubled the value of their shares in the last few months. Tata pulled out although don't be surprised to see Vodafone sell the submarine cable business to Tata now as more likely that is what they wanted.
Good deal for Vodafone - C&W losses to write off against profits greatly reduces the purchase price - sell of the businesses you do not want and the parts you do may end up costing nothing or at least far less.
Rather than putting down our UK businesses we should be supporting them. India saw fit to change the tax laws (after a high court ruling) - it's akin to losing a football match and then saying 'no - the way we play it's fewest goals wins!'.
> Shady lunchtime gentlemens' agreements with ex-colleagues are not
> the way HMRC heads should be looking after the UK tax affairs.
Agreed - but it's the lesser of two evils when many / most foreign corporations pay NO tax (legally) here. So perhaps before you spend your hard earned cash - is it [UK company] that pays some tax here or [non-UK company] that may pay no tax here.
Also that UK company pays tax here - gives dividends to UK shareholders which are then taxed again. The non-UK company may pay no tax and no dividends here.
it's like bankers - want them in the UK paying 'some' tax here or move to Switzerland and the UK gets zero?
this is a BNP/EDL croc of Shit
Vodafone is not a UK company it is registered in terms of profits in Switzerland. Its shareholders are not based in the UK and they do not pay tax here.
Tata has invested massively in this country saving UK jobs. Vodafone does shit for this country except steal money
Who are you the EDL/BNP or just dump as fuck!
Re: this is a BNP/EDL croc of Shit
"Who are you the EDL/BNP or just dump as fuck!"
Who says grammar is dead?
You said "Vodafone is not a UK company it is registered in terms of profits in Switzerland. Its shareholders are not based in the UK and they do not pay tax here."
It's just untrue - the facts are Vodafone PLC is based in the UK and is ultimately 'Vodafone' (i.e. it completely owns the subsidiaries in other countries - apart from some that are joint ventures etc.) and the majority (47%) of their shareholders are based in the UK. In 2011 they made a profit before tax of almost 9.5 billion and 8 billion after tax - much of which was repaid to shareholders in share buy-backs or dividends. So take the tax on their profits and the tax on the dividends to shareholders and yes it's a lot more tax they directly or indirectly pay.
So yes they are UK based, yes they do pay UK tax - probably as much as many other multinational companies do and almost certainly a lot more than many / most non-UK companies do.
Companies are not charities - if Tata choose to employ people in the UK as it suits them 'at this time'.
Are Tata's shares listed in the UK, are they based in the UK, how much tax do they pay on their UK profits and UK dividends (if any)?
Quite where these EDL/BNP 'ad hominen' comments come from I don't know - I don't care if Tata are Indian or US or anywhere - the point was they were not UK based so I doubt much if any of the taxes on their UK profits stay in the UK.
"Tata has invested massively in this country saving UK jobs. Vodafone does shit for this country except steal money. Who are you the EDL/BNP or just dump as f*ck!"
Who are you? Tata PR department?
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