Re: MADE IN CHINA
Obvious troll is obvious.
Foxconn has allowed a journalist to film inside an Apple iPad factory in Shenzen, revealing a fresh-faced workforce. The resulting three-minute video shows young Chinese employees at the quarter-of-a-million-strong factory filing into work at 7am, fitting motherboards into cases on clean, brightly lit assembly lines and playing …
Obvious troll is obvious.
And all your American products contain only components made in the USA? Or only contain minerals that were mined in the USA?
You would appear to be typing your comment on a keyboard, presumably not US made (though your broken caps-lock key has mad me re-think that assumption!). Perhaps you stole it, rather than bought it.
(I'm addressing this comment to your character of Big Dumb Guy, not you, and please take my comment in the spirit you intended your to be taken : D)
They said "American" not "USA". So they would be happy to buy from Canada, Mexico, Brazil etc.
Very egalitarian of them.
...from China? Surely not....
but he has a 'merkan accent, how can you not trust him?!?!
No...propaganda from Cupertino...via China.
If you ignore the suicides and toxic by-products, I am sure it is.
More Apple propaganda. Let the fanboi downvotes commence because them having their latest shiny-thing is more important that someone else's life.
It's so bad there that they have queues of people trying to get in.
So... if it shows apple is a bad light it must be true
if it shows apple is a good light it must be propaganda
And every apple user places no value on anther persons life.
Your dislike of apple is robbing you of your power to reason and think clearly
...pretty rich coming from somebody who's AC right now so we can't see the past comments that'd prove he owns an iPad.
Proves absolutely nothing. There are queues at the Channel Tunnel too, even though life for illegal immigrants in the UK is shit.
Who tells us they are not paid actors like in those TV ads we see all day long ?
Disclaimer : I've spent the first half of my life under a communist regime so I know a few things about propaganda.
You're dead wrong.
If it was a Samsung or Nokia spot, it would be propaganda too.
No one would then argue about a brand dislike. Only an Apple coerced mind could come with such a reversed logic.
Most of your down votes will be the trolling attempt at tying industry-wide problems uniquely to Apple, I think.
Propaganda is propaganda and should be attacked wherever it appears. Like greenwashing, astroturfing etc. Is Apple the worst? Probably not, but that does not make the mistreatment of workers by their sub-contractor OK.
"Hey, we're less oppressive than the others!" is not a sign of quality or progress.
An why AC? Meh, seemed like a good idea as I kinda figured the Apple Cops would come out of the woodwork.
...unless it's Mike Daisey doing it, apparently...
So, where was the device and parts that it consists of made?
Another tiresome leftist trope that started as a little lie and has become a big Lie. Of course their are suicides at Foxconn -- it's the equivalent of a small American city! The suicide RATE however is actually lower than for China in general, and comparable to most other countries.
This has been known for a long time, but truth never got in the way of a leftist meme before, so why should it now, right?
Sssh! Stop it! You're just going to confuse the issue by bringing facts into it!
What a moronic comment..
...perhaps because their life in remote Chienese villages with no sewers system, no electricity and no jobs even worse?
Apple shills are so predictably stupid, seriously.
There's a queue at the gates of hell
It may be one of the best places to work in China, but by our western standards it may only be one step removed from slavery. All these thing tend to be relative.
Many years ago I worked in a heavy engineering company and a television crew were due to film part of a documentary in our company. Everyone who worked in or had reason to visit any of the workshop floor were issued with hard hats, hi-viz jackets, tradespeople were give new overalls and the whole place was cleaned and painted. Within 3 months things were “back to normal”
So do you think I have any faith in anything that comes out of “official” china?
Suspicious? Moi? Never!
Gota go, the boss is out of his/her office and is on the prowl.
I am also skeptical about any scheduled filming showing reality. One place I worked had a film crew come in as part of a documentary: The day they came in, everyone was at their desk, smartly dressed, polite, well behaved and working hard. Well, except the guy who had just come back off holiday and didn't know about the filming. He was sent off site on some spurious errand instead.
Any other day, most of the desks would have been vacant, and staff would be dressed casually, work would have been done, but not in the well behaved, focused manner portrayed for camera.
No, the upper management did not orchestrate this: They simply warned people of the filming schedule. Mostly it was the supervisors, instead.
Anon for fairly obvious reasons.
1/4 million people? Sheeeeeeeiiiit!
That's a lot of people! There would be *some* suicides even if the working conditions were perfect, out of sheer statistics alone.
I read a while ago that the suicide rate at the factories was less than China's average.
But what was worrying at the time was the fact they were all doing it at once. Also at the time there was a high compensation paid to the victims family if they committed suicide.
At least things seem to be better now though.
Blame it on Tim Worstall for explaining the suicide rate.
A factory with 250,000 predominantly young male workers in the UK (hah, dream on) would see a significant number of suicides too. I woder how many staff they lose in RTAs.
I know when my father was a pilot for British Airways they lost more flight staff in road accidents than in plane accidents. Sadly the same wasn't true when he was an Australian NAvy pilot before that, but that's another story...
to learn, after my comments in the thread about that Java exploit that everybody but Apple fixed months ago, that I have no problem at all with Apple's contracting manufacturing work out to Foxconn, or with Foxconn's treatment of its workers.
In this it appears I agree with many of those workers themselves -- not just those featured in the video linked from the article, either; those claiming that the suicides of Foxconn workers point out some kind of problem, for example, need to explain why it is that a suicide rate, which is actually much lower at a given company than for the surrounding population, is a sign that that company has a problem -- rather than that they are treating their workers rather better than is the local standard. (Note that the suicide rate didn't decrease at Foxconn after the much-derided installation of nets around the stairwells; it was already below the local average.)
comrade stalin used to post videos like this online of ruddy faced, smiling kolkhozniks. it was called agitprop then and it's called agitprop now. lucky for apple's image that americans don't really get an education, so they wouldn't really know.
The purpose of agitprop is to stir people up; the purpose of this is to cool people down -- and while we're on the subject of agitprop, Comrade, perhaps you've heard about NPR's recent admission that Mike Daisey's "expose" was in fact a tissue of lies?
Don't blame us as a whole! Our pseudo-communist overlords have taken our educational system from a place that taught facts and critical thinking to a place where everyone gets a gold star and a good brainwashing.
Unfortunately, you undermine your own argument by showing that you have no idea what "communist" means. It may come as a shock, but there is no way that any part of the US administration (either federal or state) can be even vaguely referred to as "communist" (or "pseudo-communist", whatever that means).
Ensuring that all people have good health-care provision, a guaranteed safety-net from absolute poverty, and centrally-funded welfare programmes is NOT communism, despite what you have been told - it is actually the bare minimum that any country that calls itself civilised does for its inhabitants. The benefits to society far outweigh the costs.
No, it is. agitprop is political propaganda disseminated through literature, film, etc. Especially Communist propaganda, and anything that can be construed as not showing crApple as the greatest company in the world certainly agitates the fanbois.
Comrade Stalin had internet access?
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
(often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
Treating private property and funds as assets to be seized and redistributed would certainly fall under the first definition, and our latest foray into picking winners and losers in the market (well, trying to anyway) would surely cover the second definition. Perhaps a better word would have been socialist, but I don't shy from communist when the actions match the word. The very actions of many from our current administration follow those definitions, so I'm going to call it as I see it. The very notion of "equal outcomes" instead of "equal opportunity" is communist in nature.
As far as all the stuff all "good" countries do, it's all well and good until handouts replace jobs and a nanny state replaces personal responsibility. That is already occurring over here, and frankly we need LESS of that sort of thing, not more of it. I'm not saying we need to yank the safety net out from under grandma! Quite the opposite: she paid in her whole life, and that obligation needs to be honored. However, that 22 year old mother of 6 who dropped out of school to have kids knowing full well that she'd be taken care of has GOT to stop, and the only way to stop it is to make people deal with the consequences of their actions. The notion that her neighbor's paycheck partly belongs to her as well is very communistic (see definition 1).
Corporations fail, businesses fail, people fail, students fail. The government needs to get out of the way and let them fail, because without the risk of failure there can be no success. We have a malaise from the top down in this country, and the current schooling is trying to establish it from the bottom up.
Thumbs down back to you, simply because denying reality in the name of political correctness is a sure-fire path to failure.
When the alternative is no job - and no dole money, this is what you do.
Except that in the UK (and others) there won't be jobs like this - and there will be no social security either as there'll be no tax payers left to pay it.
Average Age is between 18 and 25? Surely the average age would then be 21.5? o.O silly 'merkans
Fail. It says the average is between 18 and 25, not that it is the average of 18 and 25.
It could be 24.99 and still meet the given condition.
21.5 would be the quotient of 18 and 25, not the mean. Even then, the middle value is more likely to be the median than the mean (though it doesn't have to be).
But hey, why not feign ignorance of basic maths and just make a sterotypical joke instead?
It's still a clumsy phrase presuming that the intent of the phrase was to saw that most of the workers were between 18 and 25 years old.
Rather than that someone had calculated the average and it was known to be somewhere between 18 and 25.
AC - because it's early in the morning and I'm possibly wrong
It's a clumsy phrase, but it is the way the word 'average' is used by lay-people who don't know (or care) about the mathematical definitions of the word. In context, I took this to mean that most of the workers are between 18 and 25. In other words, the modal value of the age falls in the 18-25 segment, or, for example, the 13th and 85th percentiles of the age range distribution are at 18 and 25 years of age.
When you think about it, it's not as clumsy as the more technical alternatives, is it? It doesn't really matter when the concept you are trying to communicate doesn't require a high level of precision, and the majority of the readers aren't going to care anyway.
I use to do store openings for a large retailer where I had worked. 12+h days with some days nearing nearing 20h days. That's was in the US. I have often worked long shifts here in the UK too and some of my fellow developers have done insane hours.
The difference between here and china is they get paid for all their hours and people seem to care. Here it just gets shoved under the carpet and you're expected to do it out of the kindness of your heart or something like that.
So I don't feel that bad for them. Working hard and getting rewarded for it is better than signing a contract with the expectaton that you'll work long under overtime even if it's more common for them to work long hours.
You can't take an apple hater's opinion seriously because they're no better than a spoiled child and a lot of westerners are getting lazy and expect too much for nothing. That's why they have your jobs and it's not americans or brits doing paid overtime.
But after doing your 12 hour shifts did you then have to go to a cramped dorm with eight people in it, or to a nice dwelling with family/friends where you had your own private space?
Does it matter? After 12-20 hour shifts you want to SLEEP, not socialize.
The crewmen of most navies in the world live in more confined spaces than these workers, incidentally, especially submarine crews.
One more point: a climate controlled room with 8 bunks is a LOT better than a mud shanty farmhouse where you get eaten by bugs every night.
Those people go to FoxConn to work and take money home. If FoxConn built them bigger quarters, they would pay them less and the majority of those workers would rather have the money than a bigger room to themselves that sat empty 12 hours a day.
meh, there were times I used to work like 12+ hours on a daily basis. and still there was time for vodka/beer and sex, actually the only thing keeping me going was sex.
in a room of 8 people you can still do it but... seriously?
in a room of 8 people you can still do it but... seriously?
... yes, with the other 7 people of course!