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back to article Apple to Google Maps: ‘Get lost’

Thanks heavens it’s only for photo-tagging: Apple has tossed yet another gauntlet onto the ground in its ongoing spat with Google, dropping Google Maps out of iPhoto for iOS and opting for OpenStreetMap instead. The move was the subject of speculation for a few days before being announced on the OpenStreetMap Foundation blog. …

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FAIL

Pffff.... Google has been known to get their maps wrong too. Currently they've mislabelled the village of "Welwyn" as "Welwyn Garden City" - Welwyn Garden City is actually the town directly north of Hatfield. They acknowledged the mistake in an e-mail but said that it's not easily fixable - I'm sure it IS easily fixable in OSM.

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Anonymous Coward

Same here, had a road nearby that wasn't suitable so suited even for horses let alone cars, but Google insisted on routing the poor users through it. One could see who used Google Maps and who used better maps like TomTom by the state of their parked cars.

Submitted a bug which stood in their queue for 2 years.

Fortunately the council came and resurfaced the whole thing. It's quite telling when a Council roadworks fixes things faster than Google :-)

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Yep, it is.

It is easily fixable on the main OSM. Goto edit, login/register, make your change, commit, wait between 2 mins and 24hrs for the tiles to be re-rendered and tada!

Interestingly though, Apple won't know much about my area, only the main roads had been mapped in 2010. So presumably anything tagged here will be shown as 'in a field'.

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Re: Yep, it is.

Same issue. 80% of our Village hasn't been done, so it will seem photo's my street will be in the middle of a 100 hectare field.

Still I don't use any Apple stuff and don't feel the urge to tag everything either.

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Facepalm

Google is special

In these parts, Google has renamed some streets and moved part of the main highway onto a small insignificant dirt road that is usually a dead end, depending on the time of year. Sometimes I look out my window and I see a shiny city car coming at great speed on the highway and continuing onto the dirt road without making the left turn that most locals would do. That's when I wonder if Google is their friend - since that would be the most likely explanation.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Google is special

Come on, you do all realise that Google don't actually do any mapping? That they buy the maps? You do, right?

The road at the side of my house was incorrectly labelled, so, I went to the Teleatlas website, Teleatlas being the company that supplies Googles maps in these parts, and logged the error. Took a while, but, the road is now named properly.

How many of you have actually logged the fault with the mapping suppliers and not with Google?

As for blaming Google for people driving down dirt tracks etc. That's not Google's fault, that's the idiot driver who is at fault.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Google is special

Its took Teleatlas two years to update a error in South Kensington that I reported.

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Anonymous Coward

Took Google years to correctly position Clapham in Central London

Even when they were told about it, persistently.

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Stop

Re: Google is special

Yes, we know that Google buy the maps, however they invite people to tell them about errors on the actual website, so they clearly can do something about it on their own system In fact, I've submitted a few errors or changes and they have done it within 24 hours.

But they don't in some cases and the mislabelling of Welwyn Garden City is one of them.

There's little point in complaining to the map makers they buy it from because the map makers can't do anything about it on the third-party site directly, only indirectly when the third party updates the maps by taking it from them again (which is once in a blue moon).

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FAIL

My favourite

... on Google Maps is that Macclesfield is called MacClesfield. (Or was last time I looked, I'm not a journalist, I don't have to check that my facts are up to date)

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Re: Google is special

Well Google must just Sack off in the UK. Here California I've seen them update there maps before the new on/off ramps were finished .

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Yep, it is.

then get out and map it then! i did our village a year or so before google had it - it's not hard and you get to learn your way around.

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Re: Google is special

>> Come on, you do all realise that Google don't actually do any mapping? That they buy the maps? You do, right?

I just wish TeleAtlas or Google bought their maps from OS

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Re: My favourite

We clearly all need to report to then that it's a minor scottish outpost and the correct name is Mc Clesfield

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Devil

Re: Google is special

Uhm... Google got started buying maps from teleAtlas and NAVTEQ. But a few years ago, they started doing their own maps.

You may want to get your facts straight.

Just saying....

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not really a 'gauntlet'

"Apple has tossed yet another gauntlet onto the ground in its ongoing spat with Google"

This is far more likely motivated by Google's starting to charge for the Maps API.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: not really a 'gauntlet'

Apple still has a contract with Google maps until the end of April I think - can't find the link

Also the licence with OSM changes in April. Proper confirmation would be good

Hopefully apple will support OSM upstream, but they have bought a mapping company recently (last year?). No linky for that either

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Devil

Re: not really a 'gauntlet'

So, Google is charging for their APIs?

Give away a product for free, using revenue from Advertising to pay for the costs of Google Maps.

The free product wipes out the competition because they can't afford to compete.

Now when there's no or little competition, they start to charge?

Hmmm. Can you smell the anti-trust lawyers starting to circle?

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Anonymous Coward

"Can you smell the anti-trust lawyers starting to circle?"

Google has the best lawyers money can buy.

So does Apple.

Who has more money?

Anti-trust doesn't really come into it, even though (if?) it should.

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Coat

Re: "Can you smell the anti-trust lawyers starting to circle?"

Now.

I don't like Google's lawyers

But I also don't like Apple's lawyers

But which is worse? There's only one way to find out...

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"Now when there's no or little competition, they start to charge?"

So?

Doesn't that make sense?

Isn't that what you would do?

I would!

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WTF?

Re: "Now when there's no or little competition, they start to charge?"

@orsonX

When you wipe out the competition by providing a product or service at a loss because unlike the competition you can subsidize you product/service through the sales of another product/service, that anti-competitive nature is illegal. Just ask Microsoft who was labeled a monopoly....

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Anonymous Coward

To be fair

The new OpenStreetMap data for the location mentioned in the article, Wentworth Falls, seems quite good - maybe even better than Google's. Apple just needs to update its copy to the latest version.

OpenStreetMaps has improved dramatically in recent months.

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FAIL

Re: To be fair

Well it's pretty crap for Jersey - I'd estimate that about 75% of the roads are missing!

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Anonymous Coward

Jersey

Wow it is pretty bad.

Maybe you could contribute some updates? Here's a nice video on how to start:

web based tool to submit modifications to OSM

Alternatively use some smartphone app like MotionX to log your tracks and then upload them.

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Re: To be fair

OpenStreetMap is pretty good in places with lots of active users, and USELESS elsewhere. I used to file bugs in it in my neighbourhood (with www.openstreetbugs.org - makes it painless and fun), but then realized that it's a too small drop in the bucket. My neighbourhood in OSM is now as good as the official city maps (even has a common bug in other maps fixed: they have a fictional road that was planned at one time but never really built, which confuses satnav users), but go 20km north and you cannot rely on OSM at all. The official mappers at least make an effort to have a consistent level of detail all over the country.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To be fair

You get what you pay for unfortunately.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: To be fair

Fictional road? May really be fictional - BBC did a series of maps a few years ago presented by Nicholas Crane taking a historical map each year and seeing how it related to the area today. One program came upto date with the London A-Z map which he used to find a specific location where he would be some of the A-Z mappers ... he got to where the road was on the A-Z map and met the mappers but the road wasn't there. The A-Z people then explained that the road he was looking for was one of the small number of "deliberate mistakes" they add to their maps so that they can determine if other map makers are simply copying their maps.

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Jad
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Re: To be fair

to site the ever reliable wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_street :)

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Re: To be fair

Ah, so effectively "watermarking" their maps.

Smart.

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Headmaster

Ummmmm...

"The OSM data – following a massage by Apple – is displayed..."

Was that a Swedish, Thai or Shiatsu massage?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Ummmmm...

Thai Ladyboy

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Shot across the bow

What would happen in Google decided to dump h.264 and go WebM/Flash only for youtube? Quite a few iOS devices would be tubeless. That might also mean that Google isn't willing to pull that trigger.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Shot across the bow

Go away

You do realie that Google own Motorola? Motorola is an owner of some H264 patents and isn't part of MPEG-LA. So now we have Google part owning a patent they want to kill.

Here's a shot across your bows -

Google paid 12.5 million for Moto a company that lost 80 million in the last quarter. How do they make any money out of that? They don't.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Shot across the bow

Could be a great opportunity for Vimeo!

Actually not sure why don't more people use Vimeo, it's . Any ideas fellow commentards?

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Re: Shot across the bow

I think they may be able to offset that 80 million loss against next years profits so turning that loss into a profit!

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Re: Shot across the bow

If Google were to dump H.264 and go WebM/Flash on YouTube they'd instantly cut off most Android devices. Flash is deprecated and in any case works really poorly on ARMv6 models — such as most budget phones of the last few years. Hardware decoding is also generally H.264 only.

So the Apple angle hardly comes into it.

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Re: Shot across the bow

they're very restrictive about what you can upload.

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FAIL

Re: Shot across the bow

I see why you are a coward and a fucking dumb one at that. Google spent $12.5 BILLION on Motorola, not $12.5 million. You should be quite accustomed to zeros since you are one.

Google spent $124.6 million on VP2 to buy their codecs. If Google wants to push the use of WebM, dropping H.264 would be the first step. Either Apple supports or they don't.

Google bought Motorola for the patents. They are going to use them to take care of that fee that the manufacturers are paying Microsoft for each Android device. Then they can also for the H.264 side of things as well. Now Apple and Microsoft want to squash WebM and push H.264, well Apple and Microsoft will need to pay licensing fees for every H.264 device they sell. Google has over $43 billion in cash. Motorola gives them some ammo against Apple and Microsoft.

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Re: Shot across the bow

Then they would loose alot of customers!!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Shot across the bow

Thanks for the personal attack - over a typo, I think you're being a little over sensitive

I really hope that the delusions of yours work out because the patents google. got are worthless. Microsoft and Apple can easily assert he patents they control under MPEG-LA and stop Moto in it's tracks. It won't happen of course, they'll license

Zero is the amount you understand

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Headmaster

Re: Shot across the bow

"Then they would loose alot of customers!!"

How exactly does one 'loose' a customer? I don't know about you but no one I know has a screw-top head!

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Re: Shot across the bow

Would they really cut off android devices? Even my old and chronically underpowered HTC Hero had enough grunt to display flash, so I struggle to see how modern low powered devices which have similar specs would struggle.

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Re: How exactly does one 'loose' a customer?

Yeah, the OP missed out a 'let'; he should've said "Then they would LET loose a lot of customers!" :-P

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Re: Shot across the bow

They will make money out of it... eventually.

How probably the same way they're doing wth their maps API.

1) first give it free untill all competition is gone

2) .. then charge for it.

3) ...if your (former) clients then decide to use one o/t leftovers, sue their asses off.

In this case they will eventually (ab)use Motorola as leverage if and when their current OEM-partners decide to jump ship and go for Windows Phone. Especially uselfull with the current market-penetration of Android devices.

It's a one shot between the eyes of HTC (the biggest OEM-manufacturer of Android devices) then they take over THAT company, ditch all non-Android portfolio and upto the next.

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Re: Shot across the bow

@Benjamin 4: What you mention has usually NOTHING to with the technical possibility of being able to run the program.

In the case of Flash not running on iOS this is due to a personal dispute between Steve Jobs and some CEO of Adobe (usually triggered by greed). The same with Nokia, the reason why they went to Microsoft and not to Google is because Nokia demanded a 'special deal' to use Android (read: get all the google API's for free while current partners have to pay for the google-stuff) and Google said No. They'd probably didn't wanna favor Nokia above other long-time partners like HTC or Samsung and that's the reason why Nokia isn't going with Android. They're technically apt to build linux-based devices as they prove with the N9.

In essence the world runs on greed and that's why technology is working against us these days instead of for us.

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Re: Shot across the bow

Youtube's just better known would be my guess.

I like Vimeo the way it is - without all the garbage and txt spk comments that clutter up Youtube. People who search for a better solution than Youtube find Vimeo and they also tend to be the sorts of people who take more care over what they upload.

Vimeo's like a good restaurant at the moment, which not everybody in town knows is there. Don't tell them or it will fill up with noisy kids and they'll ruin it.

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Re: Shot across the bow

It is just that time of the month for you. Don't pay attention to the Anonymous Coward behind the curtain, it is just a fucking imbecile.

1) Even if they were successful in grouping the patents, it still requires Apple and Microsoft in paying royalties to use said patents to Google.

2) Motorola was also going after Apple for use of 3G patents that are being infringed upon by all 3G/4G iOS devices. Care to guess what Motorola is trying to get; $10 per device.

3) Motorola was also trying to force Microsoft in paying $22.50 to use patents relating to video and wireless connections.

How much was Microsoft charging the Android hardware manufacturers? Ahh, $10. You don't think that Google can't get that taken care of now? If no, then Microsoft will be paying a lot more to Google than the Android hardware manufacturers are paying to Microsoft. Microsoft and Apple are the ones that have a lot to lose. Jobs started a war and there is no love lost between Google and Apple.

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FAIL

Re: Shot across the bow

I can go and pull a 5-year handset out of a desk and it will play flash videos from youtube just fine.

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