are there really that many lawyers!
Apple has launched a web page entitled "Creating jobs through innovation" that cites what it claims are statistics that show it's responsible for creating or supporting 514,000 jobs in the US. According to Apple, a study by the Analysis Group determined that Cook & Co. has "directly or indirectly" created 304,000 jobs spread …
are there really that many lawyers!
TO blow their own trumpet don't they.
But what about the number of foreign jobs they create, bet there's more outside the US than inside the US.
They don't like that fact being pointed out.
Apparently if everything was sources, produced, marketed, made, packaged in the US they would either,
Have to increase prices by over 200%.
Thank god for cheap foreign labour or I would have no way to afford this iPhone 4s on which I am writing my comments :-)
> are there really that many lawyers!
Almost as many as ACs on this thread.
yeah, but a lot of the overseas outsourced jobs are done by children, so they dont really count :-)
but theres a third way!!!
they could drop their margines beloow a couple of million percent!
... also they dont have include all those who been killed production line & factory 'accidents', on 3rd world wages (and i bet they dont get employee life insurance), but hey, theyre not American so they didnt count them anyway...
its very sad, but for apple sure does help the profit margin.
They must have 500,000 people working on filing patents for everything, they now have brushing your teeth and blinking on paper.
You are forgetting the millions who labour tirelessly in the rounded corners industry
Has El Reg gotten their summons to court yet? I notice the buttons here are rounded!
Somebody sure sucked a lemon...
"but also by decimating such competitors as RIM, HP's webOS team"
Well RIM is Canadian. But anyway...
You could also argue that these companies are slipping and these jobs would have gone to Samsung, Nokia and Huawei etc. But thankfully, Apple stepped up and kept the industry in USA.
See. It is all a matter of how you spin things.
Complaining that Apple does not make more stuff in USA and could do better is just being churlish. Nobody else in makes competing products in USA - why should Apple?
I'm not particularly pro-Apple, but face it people - their competitors in USA killed themselves. Apple didn't have to do anything.
Extract the michael as you wish but lay off Innovation the DB string manufacturer ! Bunch of good guys providing 'innovative' strings to those of us who enjoy the low end of things .Try some 'Silver Slaps' to see what I mean :D
need to be a bit careful here...
these here strings done have rounded corners by any chance :-)
>Complaining that Apple does not make more stuff in USA and could do better is just being churlish. Nobody else in makes competing products in USA - why should Apple?
I don't think that is the point, its the fact that Apple boast about the (ficticious) number of jobs they create. This looks like a response to all the recent bad publicity about worker conditions in China, Its a PR droids response, deflect criticism by showing how wonderful they are for the Merkin economy (c'mon guys, who cares about a few dead chinamen when we get this much benefit)
No, this is not a response to the articles on worker conditions in China.
It's a response to the NYT's iEconomy series titled "How the U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work" [*]
so the OP's point is quite valid.
I noticed that you mentioned China. I wonder if that amount includes India too?
First off, I'm incredibly surprised that Apple is pulling a defensive maneuver like this. Don't they usually just not give a crap what people think? So why bother bragging about how many jobs you've created in the US?
Second, does anyone else think statistics like this are always bogus? Unless those people have a skillset that is only valuable at Apple and no other company, they'll find employment elsewhere. Tech companies can't get enough employees, so it's not like they're drawing from an oversaturated market.
Third, healthcare? Really? Is it just me, or are they seriously claiming that because their employees get sick, then by the transitive property they're responsible for employing doctors and the like? If Apple were a man, his ego would rival George Clooney's.
> Third, healthcare? Really?
Really. Apple is paying for healthcare insurance for most of their 47000 US employes, so
it's safe to assume part of that money goes directly to keeping healthcare workers in employment.
Nothing to do with their employees getting sick or not.
So those employees who get healthcare through being an Apple employee wouldn't have that healthcare if they worked elswhere and therefore those people providing healthcare would be unemployed ? Think about it for a moment.
If it looks like sh*t and tastes like sh*t then.... its marketing droid BS
Many of the 27,000 something employees working in Apple retail wouldn't, because you'll find not many retail employers give full health insurance to part-time staff and even less hire full-timers.
Not saying this isn't marketing, of course it is - it's a direct PR response to a very critical article published in the NYT that implied Apple wasn't creating enough jobs in the US.
However as far as these numbers go I think they're sound. You can claim all you want that these people would work elsewhere, but that doesn't change the fact that these people are currently being employed directly and indirectly by Apple in the US - and there's probably a good reason they picked Apple and not another employer.
It's election year, politicos are getting unsettled by the economy climbing up shit creek to slowly so there is likely to be "bring manufacturing to America" as part of (re)election promises on the cards.
This will play merry hell with Tim Cook victorian labor condition reenactment fetish so it is not surprising that he has ordered the PR on the offensive.
As far as the statistics being bogus they are bogus on a completely different plane. Modern developed world manufacturing creates a nice thick social cushion in the form of a middle class. It is pretty much all qualified jobs - not real blue collar. That is social stability. It may not be social stability to the liking of people like Mr Cook but it is good for the country overall. Replacing that with a few thousands of real white collar or management jobs and tens of thousands of Wallmart/Tesco McJob service serfs does not provide social stability. Just the opposite - it creates a powder keg. The riots in the UK showed that very well. By the way - politicos finally started groking this. A bit too little too late, but better late than never.
Dear me, you don't have a clue do you? The people behind the riots in the UK never worked a full day in their lives, nor in many cases their parents!
It's a product of the entitlement culture - aka benefits.
And the entitlement culture is product of what?
Dismantling the manufacturing by Mrs "And the vegetables will have the same". The dismantling of social stability as a result of dismantling the "blueish collar" middle class is one long term product of Thatcherism (and her "New LieBore" copycats) which we will have to eat for many many many years.
By the way, there were not just "benefit fiends" doing the riots. If you look through the arrest lists you will see anything starting from engineers from one well known telecoms company and finishing with "olympic ambassadors".
get one yourself, plenty of opportunist rioters had jobs/were at uni
there are other papers than the daily fail you know
And the vegetables will have the same
spitting image, priceless!
thx for the memory!
How many levels of indirection would it take for you to call them on it? So an Apple employee gets sick and goes to see a doctor. The doctor then goes on to build a house. The construction worker building his house goes and buys some vegetables from a local farmer. This can go on forever. Is Apple directly responsible for all of these people's welfare? Why bother stopping at healthcare? Why not mention everything else? By the same logic you can say "the people buying Apple products are responsible for..." and then list off everything Apple claims it's responsible for.
Now's when you say "duh, this is how economies work," to which I say, exactly. For Apple to claim responsibility for the fundamental nature of the economy takes an ego beyond belief.
.........and simply regard it as PR from a major example of "BigCorp", things become a little clearer. In very recent times (the Occupy movement etc etc.) the whole issue of the way BigCorp has hollowed out American industry and exported jobs to sweated labour employers in third world countries has become a major political hot potato in the States. BigCorp is feeling the heat and is feeling somewhat defensive these days given that the political mood music is nowhere near as friendly as it once was only a few years back. Apple are merely one high profile example but that is the point - they are very high profile. They cultivate that profile assiduously as part of marketing the company and its products - very successfully. That success however has placed them in the position of becoming something of a poster boy for this whole very controversial series of issues. As far as I am concerned seeing any example of BigCorp being hoist upon their own marketing petard causes me a certain degree of wry amusement.
I'll believe a half million programers sell their apps through the app store being counted as jobs before I'll believe anything else.
So out of the nearly $12.5B for Apple's cost ($15.7B revenue, 3.25B profit) how much of that went to the 500k+ jobs?
Dare I ask how much of that revenue went to taxes and how much came from "small business" programs? No, I suppose I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Now then, is it going to be a stock split or a dividend? Myself and the other 0.999% want to know.
is not any word starting i copyrighted or patented yet?
Don't forget any four letter word ending in -pad or -pod.
While I agree that firms have overused the Innovation card, am I the only one who finds it odd that the Reg would rant about overusing words and phrases?! Off hand I can think of many Reg favorites that have been run into the ground: fanboi, fondleslab, boffin, freetard, commentard, punter, etc. I'm sure regular readers can think of dozens more.
"If you've been following the meme parade in American business jargon these days, you may, like The Reg, have become mightily sick of the word "innovation", which is now so overused that it is losing all meaning."
Kinda like the entire iFad meme, when you think about it.
is that a dig at apple who name everything i-whatever
or people with the temerity to take the piss out of said magical... emplotment agency?
Oh my, aren't you a courageous one. *cough*
ps: Could you summarise your posts instead of making 5 separate ones? You seem to post one right after the other - or are you after the top commentard prize for this article?
Try to organise your thoughts a bit better, I suggest writing them down first , waiting 30 minutes and *then* posting.
When Twain said this, he explicitly attributed the remark to Benjamin Disraeli.
86.7% of people believe this to be so, but in that form it was actually Lord Courtney - and he was ripping off Sir Charles Dilke's original 'There are three degrees of untruth,—a fib, a lie, and statistics'.
memo ........"must visit an Apple store soon"
And remember this is me, Mr Confirmed Apple Hater saying this.
They have surely made made innovative leaps in the discipline of patent <strike>trolling</strike> lawyering.
How about you ask your favourite company in the whole wide world, Google, to post *their* number of US employees?
For some reason they just state the worldwide aggregate figure of 32,467.
you know when the council agrees to planning permission for a big shop outside town that creates 50 jobs and then watches 10 shops on the high street close putting 100 people out of work and increasing council tax for everyone. That kind of success?
Tom 7 for Prime Minister.
Apple bullshit and spin.
Are people really surprised still that what Apple say and what Apple do are two totally different things?
Like I said to "g[ogle] e[namoured]" above, can you ask your idol Google how many actual employees they have in the US - instead of cowardly hiding behind a worldwide total?
Active employee count please, no bullshit like their Google+ user numbers.
Why do you assume everyone who hates Apple, loves Google?
I personally hate both. Yes, I hate Apple more than Google, but only in the sense that Mt Everest is higher than K2. I'm personally working towards getting completely out of the IT industry because I'm sick of what these two corporations have done to it. Clouds, walled gardens, software installations restricted to app stores, closed silos, insidious privacy invasion, remote control of our devices, endless patent wars - they've turned what was once an engaging and stimulating field into a mountain-sized steaming pile of shit.
I actually think the 514,000 is underestimated, Apple only counts direct and immediately connected jobs, however there's a lot more jobs just an extra step away.
Like the author of this article for example, who supplements his income writing books about Apple and was not so long ago employed as the editor-in-chief of a Mac magazine.
There's hardly a day Apple is not on the news. The media is busy with them. What about those business analysts too? The list of related jobs is endless - and a lot of them in the US.
We could even consider the mobile engineers working on upgrading their networks to cope with the iPhone user's data usage, AT&T put its network upgrades on overdrive for a good while to cope with previously unseen mobile data traffic. Even recently T-Mobile USA announced they are spending $4B to get their network ready for the iPhone
Maybe the Analsys Group could have included all these in their study and drive the headline figure the millions. But they were honest and didn't.
The IT industry would exist without Apple. The comms industry would exist without Apple.
So even without Apple, those comms industry workers and IT workers would still be doing more-or-less what they are doing now. People would still be writing books and business analysts would still still be analysing businesses.
If Apple were suddenly teleported into the centre of the sun, their place on Earth would be filled in like a hole in the water.
One of the most striking things to learn about human affairs is that nothing and nobody is indispensable. Life would continue much the same without them.
Please also learn to recognise marketing bullshit when you see it.
It’s also worth noting that all of these jobs are well paid: well paid in comparison to those assembly line jobs that are all in China that is. A reasonable if rough calculation would have those half million jobs in the US paying perhaps 10 times as many dollars each as those quarter million jobs in China*. If even roughly true that implies that there’s 20 times as much money going to labour in the US as a result of Apple than there is going to labour in China. If there’s going to be an international division of labour at all then it looks like the US is on the right end of this deal, no?
*Inaccurate, yes, but close enough. Those Chinese jobs are paying $3,000 to $6,000 a year each, depending on who you talk to. Retail in the US doesn’t pay all that well but $30-60k a year for the spread between store employees and apps developers seems reasonable.
It sounds like Apple's marketing department are about to attempt some sort of Frankenstein-esque experiment to bring back their dear leader...