The government is to double the number of people required to have a biometric residence permit (BRP) to stay in the UK, raising the number to 400,000 a year. The system is being expanded to include refugees and those given the right to live in the UK permanently. It will mean that all non-EEA (European Economic Area) nationals …
Rejection of ID cards was but a minor setback. A couple years and they'll be right back.
Re: As expected.
And your point is?
I'd rather have a working, fully implemented national ID system with _FULL_ "GERMAN STYLE" privacy controls then the piecemeal spaghetti which is being done on a case by case basis and where every Harry, John and Sally can read most of my data if I am on it.
The problem is not the national ID, the problem is who has access to what on it and how it is used. Most of continental Europe has considerably less government snooping (especially at local/council level) and less privacy violations while having a national ID and in some cases national electronic ID and having it cross-referenced versus the tax, entitlement and benefits database. Most of them have had it for 20+ years now - it is not rocket science.
Re: Re: As expected.
While I agree with your points, I am as concerned as the AC. Only if the government seriously reduces the level of snooping allowed and gives us citizens more respect (which I think the Germans do) will I be happy to have an electronic ID.
If I had an electronic ID that I could use solely for the purpose of reliably identifying me in a transaction that I have initiated (or otherwise approve of), and which is not demanded unnecessarily for other purposes, then I would be happy. Not otherwise.
Re: As expected.
I see nothing wrong with ID cards for immigrants, providing that once they receive citizenship the card is destroyed. And if they don't receive citizenship then the prints are held online to expedite their removal the next time they turn up. Should really be an EU wide system too to stop people denied entry in one country turning up the next week in another.
Oh the naivette
So far the only country that has privacy controls at all would be Germany. The problem may not be national ID, but it definitely is the government, especially when it (as in Blighty, as in where I'm now) simply and repeatedly breaks its promises. Here, you now need ID cards for bloody everything. They'll just keep a scan, TYVM, which includes rather sensitive stuff like your "person number", which really was only for tax and benefits purposes, honest, only now is for "communication with the government" ("stand and identify!"), and, oh, lots of other parties besides, even though they have no right to ask according to the letter to the law. And thus it slowly expands. All the while all complaints have been downright ignored, stonewalled, whipped with catch-22, and so on, and so forth.
Yes, this has been going on for quite a few years, and nobody stops and thinks just how much information they really need. They just expand the demand and you are to comply, period. As long as the government does that, I'll be equally blunt and insist they'll have to make do without the rigamole.
And oh, DrXym, I refer you to the DNA database, how easy it is to get enrolled despite having done perfectly nothing wrong, and how hard it is to get out even if you have in hand court papers clearing you of every allegation. That is how much you can trust your government.
As for the immigration problem, well, "Schengen" knocked out the internal borders, so us dear citizens wouldn't have to pass passport checks, with the result that every citizen now has to always carry a (biometric, RFIDed, not-shielded-by-default) ID card on pain of a fine and be prepared to hand it over as soon as the nearest copper as much as looks at you.
I'd rather have border checks back and not need to carry ID all day. There's far less border than country, even for small countries, after all.
It's all very nice that the immigrants will have a card with their fingerprints etc on but I don't think anyone (including the police) has the right to ask you to produce that ID on the spot in the UK, and it's certainly not a requirement to carry ID.
Can't wait for the law that says it's ok to demand ID from foreigners but not UK nationals :)
"Can't wait for the law that says it's ok to demand ID from foreigners but not UK nationals :)"
It works so well in Arizona...
No surprises here
To avoid passport loss, ID theft, fraud, terrorism, etc it's only a matter of time until these devices are implanted into a body cavity, and once the refugees, non-EU immigrants and such like the are dealt with the citizens of the UK will be next.
Looks like that ID card database wasn't partitioned with a chainsaw after all...
UK is a sieve
here's a thing, anyone can come to the UK on a tourist visa and simply decide to stay longer.....
no special checks at the border and when they get here, finding work is either the black economy or finding an employer who is happy to break the rules.
Seems that there are employers who 'collect' sleeping NI numbers of past EU workers, long gone home. Then the newly arrived person simply uses this number to be 'legal'
All I see happening with the Gov's immigration policy, is more and more people using the tourist visa route.
The big cities, especially, are great places to hide out in.
Even the DVLA is asleep at the wheel, handing out provisional licenses to people on tourist visa's!
Re: UK is a sieve - And the USA Is Too
All you have to do is change the letters in the country name, and change the acronyms of the programs, and presto, you're talking about the same problems we have here in the USA because "they" don't really want to stop illegal immigration. It'll be the end of both our countries and societies if it isn't stopped though. The Rule of Law is actually a very good thing.
So will the snooping records of people who become naturalized be deleted, or will they remain second-class citizens?
Why am I paying for ID cards and scanners?
We make it really hard for people to come here, work and pay taxes so they come here, work and not pay taxes. Next plan: pay people to not grow opium, but don't pay anyone to check if people are growing opium.
So does this mean they are actually starting to work through the backlog
of so-called asylum seekers.
Biometric chips for immigrants?
Thought for a moment they were considering giving them pet style chip implants...
As an Immigrant...
As a non-EU immigrant to these isles, I can see the advantage of these cards, as long as the proper controls are in place. As other posters have pointed out though, the UK government is rubbish at putting in and maintaining said controls.
Although I'm a pretty staunch libertarian (Go Ron Paul!), and I think I'm exempt as I've already got my biometric ILR in my passport, I wouldn't mind having instant verification of my status. I'm still not a citizen so I can't expect the same treatment as a UK citizen in all situations. If it's only one hoop, then my employer can see only what they need to see (I can legally work) or the benefit office can verify that I'm entitled to a specific benefit, then I'm all for it. I don't want some busy-body at the council who doesn't like the fact that I left my bin out too early having the right to check my papers. Must be strictly need to know.
The real scandal is the current government's attempts to prevent families making a home in the UK, in practice preventing those on lower incomes from marrying whom they choose. The US government does this and it is disgusting. But that's neither here nor there I suppose.
...might be to suspend all economic, medical and political refugee immigration for ten years until we get our own house in order and can feed, house, clothe and provide employment for our own people.
Think how much it would save on biometric chips alone.