back to article Molesworth and the New Latin

'In his speech [...] the Education Secretary Michael Gove appeared to accept in its entirety the argument that ICT had become little more than training in office skills and something far more rigorous was required [...] While Alex Hope's slogan "coding is the new Latin" did not appeal to some, it must have appealed to the …

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FAIL

WTH?

Completely unreadable, even if that was supposed to be the point.

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Re: WTH?

as any fule kno...

It's done in the style of the Molesworth books, somewhat hinted at by the title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Molesworth

Interesting take on the question... the underlying point is about why the education curriculum is about to include teaching computer programming at some level to all students - that for most it will be as useful as Latin is, hence "it's the new Latin".

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Devil

Re: WTH?

Try googling "Down with Skool". It will be ixplayned, as enny ful kno.

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Re: WTH?

Yes.

This is like one of those political cartoons that appear in broadsheet newspapers. They are typically more difficult to understand and less funny than the issue they are supposedly about.

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Facepalm

Re: WTH?

Lee Dowling - an exemple off any fule......

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Mushroom

Re: WTH?

Chiz chiz.

Yew are that orful swot Fotherington-Thomas[1] and I clame my fyve lbs.

[1] and a gurl to.

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Anonymous Coward

WTH? Commentards...

... know your memes!

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Facepalm

Re: Re: WTH?

Ah. My bad, then. I thought it was just written in the 'modern' style where teachers aren't allowed to correct for spelling of grammar in case they stifle the little chav's creativity.

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Re: Re: Re: WTH?

My bad? What does that mean?

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FAIL

Re: WTH?

God forbid you ever try to read Iain M Banks' Feersum Endjinn then. Your powers of reading comprehension are clearly too weak.

Unlike a computer, the human mind should be able to parse and extract meaning from a badly formed sentence.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: WTH?

"as any fule kno...

It's done in the style of the Molesworth books, somewhat hinted at by the title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Molesworth"

I don't need no stinking Wikipedia to tell me that, but it doesn't make the article any easier to read.

"the underlying point is about why the education curriculum is about to include teaching computer programming at some level to all students - that for most it will be as useful as Latin is, hence "it's the new Latin"."

Good. Because "most" is an improvement over the current curriculum which is no bloody use to anyone at all.

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Bravo!

I always loved "Down With Skul!" Glad to see I'm not the only old frat who remembers it.

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Re: Bravo!

Er, Skool. Gad, I need coffee.

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Re: Re: Bravo!

Does coffee make frats fart?

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Arrrrrrrgh!

My eyes are bleeding...

Call an ambulance.

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Happy

Re: Arrrrrrrgh!

AN AMBULAAAAANCE!

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Happy

Not too bad

Couple of spelling errors, but on the whole quite good.

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Re: Not too bad

In the modern parlance, an A*

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The new latin

Coding in a language

as dead as dead can be

it killed the ancient programmers

and now it's killing me

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Coat

Re: The new latin

Shouldn't that be: "first it killed the beardies / and now it's killing me."?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The new latin

.... though as an engineer (microelectronics design) and previously a maths graduate I always maintain that Latin and the way you learn that sentences etc have a logical construction of correcly ordered/conjugated/declined nouns, adjectives and verbs etc has been an invaluable foundation for applying similar logical techniques to maths and design!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: The new latin @ AC 14:02

Show off!

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Re: Re: Re: The new latin @ AC 14:02 - show off

>show off

Not so much. It didn't spell correctly correctly.

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Holmes

Re: Re: The new latin

Quite agree. One is reminded of the Russell essay on education in which he claims that the only thing he remembers from his school Latin is the genitive plural of "pulex', and that the teaching of the language in schools is now of any use. However, he writes this in a clarity of language that can only have come from his having 'done the classics'. Helped a bit with his 'Principia', too.

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Headmaster

Re: Re: Re: The new latin

Sorry, should have been "is not of any use." Finger trouble.

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Love it

Managed to dam both the current schools It strategy (is there one?) and the whole UK education system in one excellent article. As an aside I bet it was hard to write what with spell checkers and automatic corrections kicking in all the time...:-)

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Perfectly readable

..but then I fought my way through Feersum Endjinn....

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Re: Perfectly readable

"Feersum Endjinn" the only Banks book that have I put down (2nd or 3rd chapter) and never, ever contemplated picking up again.

Was it worth the effort?

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Re: Re: Perfectly readable

>>>Was it worth the effort?

Nope. I did fight my way through all of Feersum Endjinn, and I needn't have bothered really. I suppose I ought to re-read it, to see if I was being unfair. I couldn't be arsed to get through A Clockwork Orange because of that, so I don't know if it's caused me to miss something good...

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Re: Re: Perfectly readable

Yes - after the third or fourth attempt.

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Re: Re: Perfectly readable

Yes - but only if you are a fan. IMHO Its about as readable as The wasp factory and the ending has a similar twist.

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jai
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Re: Re: Re: Perfectly readable

GTFO

and on mulitple accounts:

1) feersum endjinn was bloody brilliant and damn entertaining.

and

2) i can't believe you can rate Canal Dreams higher than feersum endjinn, or in fact any other book ever!!!!

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Mushroom

Re: Re: Perfectly readable

Not really, but I don't really rate any of his non-Culture Sci-Fi, except "Against a Dark Background"

The Lazy Gun really caught my imagination

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Re: Re: Perfectly readable

It's a slog at the start, but it really really *is* worth reading. Once of my favourite Banks books, despite the struggle, immensely imaginative. Seriously, give it another go.

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Feersum Endjinn - one of the best of IMB's works.

Seriously, go back and give it another go. Remember that only one of the characters is written phonetically (though probably the most important one), but a bit of patience will soon get past the (necessary) denseness of those sections.

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Re: Re: Re: Perfectly readable

> Nope. I did fight my way through all of Feersum Endjinn, and I needn't have bothered really. I

> suppose I ought to re-read it, to see if I was being unfair. I couldn't be arsed to get through A

> Clockwork Orange because of that, so I don't know if it's caused me to miss something good...

I haven't seen any solid research on this, but I suspect that some readers find it much easier to tolerate variant-dialect writing than others do. It's unlikely that everyone who learns to read English, or even everyone who's a "good reader" of English (however you want to defined that), develops precisely the same cognitive capabilities for that purpose. Thanks to neurological research, we know that's not true of many other mental facilities; even something relatively simple like being able to find your way around an area you're familiar with appears to have at least two distinct neurological "implementations".

So for some people this sort of novel (you could add Hoban's /Riddley Walker/ and Gilman's /Moonwise/ to the list) is likely much more work than for others, and thus less likely to be "worth it".

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Love it

speling a bit overdone but WTF. Molesworth rules. Luv ref to peason to.

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Can we have....

.. some illustrations please (in the style of...)?

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good stuff, but...

...was missing Fotherington-Thomas saying "hello clouds hello sky"

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Anonymous Coward

Re: good stuff, but...

And Molesworth 2 - "uterly wet and a weed it panes me to think i am of the same blud"

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Excellent!

.. I'd completely forgotten about Molesworth ..

Re the underlying point: why would anyone learn to code now? In 5 years, it'll all be done in India, future global ruler (if they don't like you, someone in Bangalore will flick a switch and turn off your country).

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

That's what I'm wondering....

Maybe it's for the Heritage Industry?

You can go to an industrial museum today, there seem to be hundreds, and see somebody working a Victorian loom. In the future you may be able to look around a Heritage software house, see somebody in a BOFH T-shirt and be told:

"And here C programmers used to chase memory leaks"

Maybe.

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FAIL

Re: Excellent!

"In 5 years, it'll all be done in India"

I think you meant "all the tedious, boring and slow stuff will be done in India". I still have to see something that reaches the quality level of MySQL out of India and I predict that they will never, ever write something as great as Linux or Postgres. I am absolutely not scared of people who do not have a rigorous education nor the ambition to acquire that. There will be more interesting software emanate from Norway than India also for the next 200 years.

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Re: Re: Excellent!

Wowsers! And me and my redneck friends routinely get called racists? Incredible.

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Stop

Re: Re: Re: Excellent!

Why is stating the facts "racist" ? I would also admit that Indian food is probably 100 times more popular than German food. And I also like Indian food.

Different nations do have different characteristics and denying that is simply idiotic.

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Re: Re: Excellent!

There's no reason a well educated Indian (hint - their comp sci education is probably better than ours is now) cannot produce work to the same standard as a well educated anybody-else. Any nation that invests in education will come out ahead of any that doesn't. I'm not thinking specifically of India, but any nation where the education system hasn't fallen into ruins, for example Scandinavia, China, south-east Asian nations such as Singapore and South Korea, and almost anywhere else that isn't the UK or US.

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Stop

Re: Re: Re: Excellent!

"There's no reason a well educated Indian (hint - their comp sci education is probably better than ours is now)"

You pulled that one entirely out of thin air. Have you ever spoken to them and probed their depth of conceptual expertise ? Their knowledge is mostly very narrow and non-conceptual. They might know all the details of win32, but they have never bothered to look at the X window system, Display Postscript or read research papers.

Most of them won't even know the difference of a tree and a hashtable. They won't know why hashtables must be faster and how you build them. And that is just one specific example.

I don't you why this is, but I suspect Indians are mostly in IT to make lots of money (as compared to other job in India), but not because they are fascinated of it and want to improve the state of computer science affairs.

The difference of Norway and India is that of a few excellent and the armies of the mediocre. Just look at the results in the open source sphere.

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Deary deary me...

... so I was working my way down page 1, thinking "Even Molesworth never spelled quite this badly", not realising that this was all setup for a gag on page 2, which duly arrived and left me unprepared for the even better gag that followed clutching its coattails.

What, no Basil Fotherington-Thomas?

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Anonymous Coward

Oh god....

What scared me most was that ..... Until about halfway through page one, I didn’t notice its was written in the style of "dyslexic hoodie chav"

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Happy

Re: Oh god....

They had chavs back then? I kno that peason hav a face like a squished tomato but i neva herd him being called a hudi....

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