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back to article Proview wins new Chinese IPAD ruling as Apple threatens to sue

Apple’s ongoing tussle with failed monitor biz Proview took another turn this week when another Chinese court declared that shops in the country should stop selling iPads. An Associated Press report quoted Proview lawyer Xie Xianghui as saying that the Intermediate People's Court in Huizhou, Guangdong Province, had ruled in the …

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Stop

Apple fanbois worried clearly.

As every article seems keen to point out the state of the ProView company.

However trademark infringement is trademark infringement..

I bet Chinese officials are already getting their Apple promotional "gifts" in the post as we speak, as that's how Apple works.

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Re: Apple fanbois worried clearly.

"could be merely exploiting the situation for financial gain to the tune of $2bn "

'Shits and giggles'

'for the Lulz'

etc.

And why not

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apple fanbois worried clearly.

What trademark infringement? Have you read the trademark sale contract documents? Here you go:

http://allthingsd.com/20120216/take-a-look-at-some-of-apples-evidence-in-proview-ipad-dispute/

Even shows parent the Chinese company acknowledged the sale. (see emails)

This is a good old scam.

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Stop

Re: Apple fanbois worried clearly.

Speaking as a fandroid, I think it's perfectly reasonable to disclose the state of the company.

You don't think the timing is a little odd? Why not speak up during the iPad 1?

A patent/trademark/copyright troll is a patent/trademark/copyright, be it Apple, MS, Amazon, Proview, blah, blah, blah. They are all behaving like little brats with little to no appreciation of what patents (et al) were designed for.

In this case, if Proview isn't just doing it to buoy-up their failing bottom-line, I'll be very shocked.

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Re: Re: Apple fanbois worried clearly.

"trademark sale documents" schmocuments.

They were found to have infringed, therefore they infringed. Just like when Android encroaches too far on what Apple thinks is their territory in the smartphone market.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

Happy

iPad?

I'm quite enjoying this kerfuffle, as a warm-up act to the possibly upcoming iTV battle! :)

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Anonymous Coward

Kerfuffle

A word that is not used nearly enough... JK Rowling should have used it in a Potter book title...

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Anonymous Coward

ITV battle

There won't be one.

ps: Monster Cable owns the ITV trademark in the US, so Apple could buy it from them to have an iTV in the US

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Happy

Re: Kerfuffle

Harry Potter and the Kerfuffle of Puberty.

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Happy

"Apple's Reputation"

Ha ha, that bit caused a chuckle. Apple's rep is a sterling one, to be sure.

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Trollface

While I think that Apple is being unfairly treated...

... I can't help smiling at this and thinking that this is precisely what they deserve for being the corrupt bastards they have been in recent months.

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Re: While I think that Apple is being unfairly treated...

Happy schadenfreude to you.

RCH = Recently corrupt, how?

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Happy

Re: Re: While I think that Apple is being unfairly treated...

I'm quite happy to admit that I'm enjoying this schadenfreude, much as I enjoyed the news that Tiscali/Talk Talk were fined for stealing money from their customers (I was one of them).

The point is that Apple have been throwing their weight around and suing people left right and centre for the most insane of reasons. Now they're being sued for an equally ridiculous reason - one reaps what one sows.

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Re: Re: Re: While I think that Apple is being unfairly treated...

I understand the sentiment, and Apple has been a prick for quite a while. I was more interested in the "corruption" charge, which appears unsubstantiated. Suing people is not equivalent to corruption, it's just a way of pissing down your own boot (both of which are probablt full by now).

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Anonymous Coward

so can Apple gain anything by suing the Taiwanese company? (which -if I understand it correctly- was owned by this same people at the time of the sale).

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Yeah, Apple have resorted to shady business practices perpetually for years and years.

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Anonymous Coward

Show me a tech company which hasn't?

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LPF

@jeebus(sp)

Dude unless you have proof to back that up, I would not go around posting stuff like that, if it can lead back to your actual Identity. This site is viewed by a lot of people! word to the wise ;)

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Re: @jeebus(sp)

This site is viewed by a (parking) lot of people, judging by the cast of usual suspects. While I think tossing around words like "corruption" and "shady business practices" is overblown, nothing pegs the FUD meter like threat of lawsuit against a clearly inebriated poster.

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Flame

RE: Show me a tech company which hasn't?

If Microsoft and Google jumped off a bridge, would Apple do it too?

Seriously, leave the elementary school arguments in elementary school, please.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: RE: Show me a tech company which hasn't?

Steve, you can't be a top player in IT without making a few enemies. That's all I'm gonna say.

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Linux

Re: RE: Show me a tech company which hasn't?

Nope,

Apple would file a lawsuit, saying they though of it first and then try to sue the surviving family members of Microsoft and Google for copyright infringement.

THATS WHAT WOULD REALLY HAPPEN. :-)

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Happy

I wasn't making a mention of the unanimous anti-competitive practices by every large and medium scale IT corporation, merely that Apple are absolutely guilty of them and have remained so for a number of years.

Nice try though.

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Anonymous Coward

Guilty you say? Show me the court documents then?

Oh wait only Microsoft is **really** guilty, with the paperwork to prove it.

No cigar then, but you gave it your best shot.

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Just change the name of the product in China, not that big of a deal.

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This post has been deleted by its author

I nominate...

衛生墊.

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Facepalm

@Just change the name of the product in China, not that big of a deal.

You're absolutely spot on.

Still the shame of being beaten by a dumpling maker has got to hurt.

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Re: I nominate...

Erm, wouldn't that be 卫生垫 in China?

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Joke

Re: Re: I nominate...

Yes, in simplified chinese, but I bet that name's already taken... ;-)

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Coat

Re: I nominate...

Hmm... wrong language and I'm not sure you've represented the "i" part of Pad sufficiently.

What would the man's version be?

陽墊?

does sound a bit like 'ee' rather than 'aye' but it's close...

I'll get the one with the big "horse & deer" kanji on the back.

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If Apple loses their appeal to the high court...

...then the solution seems clear.

If, as it appears from the documentation, ProView's "Taiwan division" did in fact sell something that it didn't own -- i.e.: the China rights to the name iPad -- then they committed fraud and should be charged criminally as well as sued in civil court in both China and Taiwan. Since I'm assuming that both countries have laws that prevent profiting from criminal activity, PeoView's putative $2 billion AND the original sale price (plus court costs, etc.) should be at risk.

IANAL, but that's how the situation reads to me, anyhow.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: If Apple loses their appeal to the high court...

" laws that prevent profiting from criminal activity" in China? You're having a laugh.

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Re: Re: If Apple loses their appeal to the high court...

It all rather depends on whether this is officially-sanctioned criminal activity or not. While it LOOKS like it might be, given the court's seemingly skewed reading of the sale agreement, it COULD just be Beijing going along, rather than being an active participant.

Even if it is, if the head of ProView isn't tight with Li Keqiang and Xi Jinping (widely expected to become premier and president, respectively, this fall), then whatever ProView's status re "official crime" is now could change radically, particularly if Apple mooted the idea that $2 billion would go a long way towards setting up manufacturing lines somewhere like India or Thailand that already have tech manufacturing infrastructures in place and could use the jobs.

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Happy

"At least the lawyers are happy."

Judging from the comments on this thread, I'd say a lot more than the lawyers are happy. <dabbing tears of laughter from the corners of my eyes>

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Anonymous Coward

TO LPF

Yep they have! Since the lat 90's.

Remember Exponential?

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Devil

Change the name of the product in China.....

To iSue?

(Dear Reg--since this is a tech news site, we must have a battling lawyers icon! This is especially true in that some tech titans seem in danger of spending more money on Legal than on R&D. Until then, the spawn of Satan icon does ok.)

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Re: Change the name of the product in China.....

trying to imagine what that icon would look like... two turds with swords ?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Change the name of the product in China.....

"...Until then, the spawn of Satan icon does ok..."

Ah. That's what it is! I always thought that icon was a dodgem car, or the wagon of a rollercoaster.

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Anonymous Coward

A Chinese court siding with a Chinese Co. vs. a foreign one? SHOCK!

Or ... not.

Surprised this hasn't happened before now, honestly. And if Apple gets a little too rambunctious in handling this, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if a Chinese court threatens to seize Apple's Chinese assets - which would be a crap load of their manufacturing capability.

And Apple wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

The Chinese don't play by the same rules everyone else does - manipulation of currency, etc. They recently said that they don't feel obligated to honor any rules that they didn't have a hand in creating (that was in regards to their monetary policy).

Good luck, Apple - it's going to be an uphill battle.

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Re: A Chinese court siding with a Chinese Co. vs. a foreign one? SHOCK!

It hasn't happened before because no American manufacturer in China wanted to have a trademark that begins with an "i", to go with all its other trademarks begining with an 'i'.

No lawyers, besides Apple's, would rely on an email from the seller of a trademark to establish the ownership of that asset.

Apple's Chinese assets will not be seized, except to pay royalties for iPads Apple have already sold in China. The court will nullify the contract and make all money paid out be returned.

EXCEPT THE COMPANIES WILL SETTLE BEFORE THE TRIAL.

If you want to do business in China, you do so at your own risk, just as a foreign entity does business in America at its own risk. Make sure you know the rules of the game.

AC, what do you know about the use of dummy, or sham, corporations in China? Think the laws are same as here? Is China required to have the same corporate laws as we have?

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FAIL

Not surprisingly, Anonymous Coward, you don't bother to present any evidence

to support your claim - otherwise, why post as an AC ? But readers who want to know what's going on in China may find the the counterexample of Motorola v Guangzhou Weierwei as reported on this page : http://www.finnegan.com/resources/articles/articlesdetail.aspx?news=ac1bec74-c483-4f26-8202-e603d78626fa ....

Luckily, knowledge of the subject matter under discussion is not required to post to Reg forums....

Henri

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Monitors! That's why I know the name Proview

Let me tell you a tale...

Some years ago, back when a 17" TFT was something to brag about, same appeared on the market here under the name Proview/CMV. They got rave reviews and were significantly cheaper than the competition. Customers came asking for the damn things and we sent maybe 50 out the door before the proverbial hit the rotating device.

Proview's QC was basically non-existent. It seems the local importers carefully chose the demos they sent for review. Or, if you believe the rumours about a certain prominent local computing mag, just sent a cheque for advertising and the glowing review was written without benefit of ever actually seeing the product. It wasn't just the local press who were guilty / fooled 'cause I remember one customer coming in waiving a copy of PC Power.

If you got a good one all well and good otherwise send it back and take another lucky dip. Rinse and repeat until the customer is satisfied. We bounced two thirds of them back to our suppliers as DOA or faulty out of the box. It got so bad that at one point there was a sign at the returns desk to the effect that they would no longer accept returns of these pieces of crap for replacement and we'd have to send them to the importer in Sydney (that's 1000km give or take). Then there was the moving goal posts of what constitutes faulty. They got told in no uncertain terms not to try that on with me 'cause we still had a half dozen returns unresolved. I have some sympathy 'cause the poor bastards lost half their container load to warranty replacements. The last few we ended up replacing with another brand after three rounds of the Proview lucky dip.

I think we still have two in use. Like I said: if you got a good one...

So in this fight I'm with Apple purely because of the weeks of aggravation Proview caused me all those years ago. I must go take a shower 'cause I feel dirty now.

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Facepalm

Only 2 billion?

Proview should shoot the wad and demand 2 HUNDRED billion, and do the world the favour of bankrupting the fruity bastards!

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Re: Only 2 billion?

And how would bankrupting one of the most successful businesses in the world be a favour, exactly?

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Re: Re: Only 2 billion?

Because it would not only wipe the smile off the fanboi faces, but they would then be able to see the folly of their ways and join the righteous ranks of the fandroid (for surely they could chose no other platform) and we can move forward together in harmony into a utopian future.

At least until Google decides to stop opening the 'droid source and makes Moto the only licensed vendor.

Something along those lines I'd guess.

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Mushroom

Time for a review

Perhaps this will cause a few companies to start thinking about whether they should be doing business in China. Just a thought. As for Apple, I think they may be a little screwed. Whatever happens I guess they will be coughing up some wonga to someone especially if they bought the trademark from a company who weren't authorised to sell it. The outcome could make for interesting reading. Lots of companies moved manufacturing to China, maybe they will move back. Ok, they probably won't but it would be nice to bring some manufacturing jobs back to the West.

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Re: Time for a review

"China's growth engine declines - Wall Street Journal online.wsj.com/.../SB10001424052970204555904577165593145006650

Jan 17, 2012 – For all of 2011, China grew 9.2%, compared with 10.4% in 2010. For the fourth quarter, the 8.9% GDP growth, compared with a year earlier."

With a GDP of 9% and a population of 1,300,000,000 I don't think too many companies will be exiting China soon. In fact their ranks should get larger as time goes by.

Apple leave China? Do rats leave a ship that's not sinking?

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Re: Re: Time for a review

Well, going by those figures I guess nobody is leaving China any time soon. I stand corrected. Perhaps this is the way it is meant to be then, China being the manufacturer of (most of) the worlds goods. Only time will tell.

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