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back to article Pirate Bay AND its users violate labels' copyright - judge

A High Court judge has ruled that notorious file-sharing website The Pirate Bay and its users violated the copyrights of nine record labels based in the UK. None of the founders of the website were represented at the trial in London. "The matters I have considered in relation to authorisation lead to the conclusion that the …

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Anonymous Coward

too late?

does anyone actually use TBP anymore?

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Paris Hilton

"notorious file-sharing website The Pirate Bay"

I thought they were just indexing torrents?

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Anonymous Coward

No...

They were also hosting the trackers when trackers were required.

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Stop

Re: Re: No...

In case you've not been paying attention to the news, just linking to infringing content is enough nowadays.

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Flame

Re: Re: No...

If you link to only 1000 movie sites hosted elsewhere, and do so KNOWINGLY, you are still inciting to infringement. And frankly, I'll be more than happy to buy the hangman his noose after you are convicted.

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Anonymous Coward

Let the show begin

...here in the UK now. These record labels really take the biscuit when it comes to protecting their criminal lifestyles.

Any Judge can give orders on the tiniest of pretexts of inciting and inducing something as flippant as referrring to the Koran, Bible or Torah !

Whats are we coming to??

And they want ACTA AND SOPA on top of that!

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Re: Let the show begin

You sir, write words of paranoia and craziness!

You might not like the copyright laws, but whatever the record labels are currently doing is legal. Record labels are out-of-touch, dependent on an old business model, and behave extremely greedily, but they are certainly not "protecting their criminal lifestyles".

I would like to see a world where creators get fairly paid for their work, consumers can get access to creative works for a reasonable price, and the middle-man who currently takes an unjustifiably large slice of the pie is cut out. However "a reasonable price" for consumers cannot be "free" as in "gratis", otherwise piracy will kill the creative industries (bad thing) as opposed to just killing the bloated middlemen (good thing).

I believe this can be done without drastic measures such as ACTA and SOPA, and for that to happen, I as a consumer want to support any effort that allows me to legally BUY at a fair price content that I want as directly as possible from the creators. Large-scale piracy closes down that sensible middle ground and just gives the lobbies and politicians further excuses to impose ACTA-SOPA -like legislation onto law-abiding consumers.

And WTF have the Bible / Torah / Koran got to do with it?

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"Whatever the record companies are currently doing is legal"

Only because the fuckers bought and paid for the laws that make it so. That doesn't make what they do right. I could theoretically get away with murdering babies with pickaxes if I had enough money to pay off enough politicians to pass a law making it legal to murder babies with pickaxes. Doesn't make it a good thing to do though!

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Pirate

I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

Who goes to Pirate Bay thinking it's all whiter than white?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

Lots of people here seem to think there is nothing wrong with downloading from torrents, so I'd conjecture that quite a few people go to TPB thinking that it's all fine. Unless that is that those people really know that it's not alright and they're just blustering about trying to justify their actions, but that would never happen, would it?

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Re: Re: I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

There are a lot of people like myself who go there only to download missed televisions programs that I already pay for the right to view, via my cable company.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

The really big problem is that if you rely upon enforcement to protect the so called infinite copyrighted works is that you will have to throw 70 percent of the people in the 18 to 29 year olds who have illegally downloaded music! If that happens, there will be a serious discussion about copyright laws and the legitimacy of the governments involved with enforcement. Perhaps the world needs to take a second look at the infinite copyright laws and patent laws.

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Re: Re: I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

Taking at face value statements attributed to The Pirate Bay and its apologists, they seem to sincerely believe that copyright isn't a moral or enforceable exclusive right in the modern world. At all. I think they are mistaken.

You ever read a story called "A Logic Named Joe"? Written before personal computers, a "logic" is a sort of networked home computer, and Joe has a bug, of sorts: it lets anyone on the network access anything. Fortunately, disaster is mostly averted.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: Re: I don't think there's any "inciting and inducing" involved

cough... tvtorrents.com ... cough

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This post has been deleted by its author

Facepalm

Lets be honest

Will this in reality affect anyone with more than half a clue? Newzbin showed how p*ss easy it was to get around the site blocking, and no doubt TPB will be able to do just the same.

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Moving target

Surely the fact that it appears to run off of random people's laptops means it will be quite difficult to get rid of? It's a truly distributed application.

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Pirate

Thin end

Reading the conclusions in this case, it appears very much that the distinction of how TPB are jointly etc etc can be directly applied to YouTube etc since as far as I am aware, whilst they announce that they will respond to takedown requests, there does not seem to be any attempt to make the uploader take responsibility to any copyright breach. This would be an admission that illegal uploads happen and that it is down to the copyright holder to find out and ask for the removal.

I can't believe that they could not have come up with a more precise form of words if they were that determined to find a way to block TBP.

As noted in other comments here though, the main offenders have moved on and there are so many more sites out there this effect of this case is to simply add weight to the rolling stone of big brother style censorship as the more they win the more they will go after until the courts are desensitized and sites are blocked 'on the nod'.

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until the courts are desensitized and sites are blocked 'on the nod'

At which point 'sites' will disappear and the whole thing will move onto what ever edonkey morphs into.

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applicability to Scotland

Surely this ruling has no basis in Scotland so we shoudl be able to access TPB north of the border unless there is a similar ruling in the Court of Session? Anyone know if this is right or not.

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(Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

Re: applicability to Scotland

Good point - the High Court's jurisdiction is England and Wales.

C.

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Re: Re: applicability to Scotland

Except I bet no UK ISP will bother to check if your'e in Scotland or NI before blocking such sites. I wonder if we could sue them for that.

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Re: Re: Re: applicability to Scotland

Err, didn't the EU say last week that wholesale *blocking* of sites was a no-no?

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Re: Re: Re: applicability to Scotland

Depends on the specifics surely? Where the ISP servers are based, not the customer receiving the connection to them? What if you live literally yards over the border in Scotland, but your ISP is based south of the border?

IANAL, but as this is all new territory as far as applicable process is concerned, won't any actions hereafter set the benchmark for future actions?

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Boffin

Re: Re: Re: Re: applicability to Scotland

Sooner we get our independence back again, the sooner issues like this will get sorted out...

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Facepalm

Totally ineffective

I would hazard a bet at this being a DNS block, meaning the IP address will still work You can just add that to your hosts file and carry on as normal. Failing that, there's VPNs, proxies, I2P, Tor, Freenet...

This is not how to beat copyright infringement. You do it by offering a better service than the pirates. The last game I pirated was Quake IV, and I bought that on Steam anyway. The price was right, and the convenience of not having to trawl through buggy or virus infected cracked executables was the clincher.

Right now I would have to spend many thousands of pounds to buy the music *I already own* to fill up an iPod. That just isn't fair, guys. I don't care if it's the law; I'm just not going to do it, and making circumventing DRM illegal won't stop me. The same applies for trailers at the beginning of DVDs. I want to skip them and watch the feature, but I can't. I know it's collusion between DVD / Blu-Ray player manufacturers and the media companies making me watch that dross when I try and play something on the TV. (Incidentally, this doesn't affect me, as I watch my DVDs from my PC through VLC media player. If I couldn't do that, you can bet I wouldn't be buying anywhere near as many DVDs as I do.)

TL:DR; So what? "The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Totally ineffective

Pirating W40K off the pirate bay actually persuaded me to buy it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Totally ineffective

Yep

Hide My Ass and all is well.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Re: Totally ineffective

"Pirating W40K off the pirate bay actually persuaded me to buy it."

Really? Buying W40K actually persuaded me to go and pirate it as the DRM was so annoying."

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FAIL

Re: Re: Totally ineffective

Hide My Ass?

HAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously, anyone that thinks that the owners of that site won't roll over and hand over your details to big brother is an idiot and quite frankly deserves to be caught sentenced and fined.

Hide My Ass is fine if you're a schoolboy trying to look at porn in the library, other than that it's so dodgy it's not even funny.

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Hide My Ass?

HMA is fine if you're not using it for anything dodgy ... they're a legit company so of course they'll hand your IP address over the the rozzers on request.

It's useful for confusing YouTube as to your location, or bypassing company restrictions on which websites you can visit... I wouldn't trust them enough to actually log onto anything through the proxy mind.

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Pirate

Re: Re: Re: Totally ineffective

The sensible thing to do would be to keep using the pirated version, but at least you still legally own a copy of the game.

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Buy your media secondhand

There. I said it.

Again ;o)

OK some stuff is not the same secondhand (games with used-up online redemption codes, etc) but CD's, DVD's .. all the same so long as the packaging is in good nick. Take someone's no-longer-wanted purchase off them for a great price and keep that sale away from Big Media. If you want to make sure the 'artist' benefits then buy a t-shirt, go to a gig, send them an Xmas card with a fiver in it.

Which reminds me... you watch the secondhand games market take a shit-kicking when the next gen of consoles come out. The games won't be any cheaper, either, even though they're largely free to distribute online through XBOX market, etc.

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Re: Buy your media secondhand

And this is the point of UltraViolet, On-line digital content etc. It kills the second-hand market.

Stallman was right.

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Re: Buy your media secondhand

Which is fine for for most things except PC Games which are usually tied to specific accounts now, so I'm stuck with several copies of Bad company 2 which I played for a week and 2 copies of Black Ops which to this day don't work right.

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Re: Re: Buy your media secondhand

It's going the same way with consoles now... PS3 games are beginning to be tied to your PSN/SEN account for online play now; the death knell for the for the second hand console game market hasn't been rung yet but I think it's coming. I suspect it'll gain traction with the next generation of consoles (PS4, XBoX 720, whatever).

I hope you didn't pay for those extra copies which didn't work properly; just because the games can't be resold that doesn't mean you have to accept faulty goods.

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Happy

Unreachable?

Hardly.

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It's not up to the judiciary to decide how to prevent piracy - merely to determine the legitimacy or lack thereof.

And I think they've ruled quite well on this one.

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FAIL

Torrents

When one torrent site gets blocked another 3 open up...TPB has been under threat for ages and is still up, if it gets blocked there are still plenty of others out there which can be reached in a instant via google.

Nice of the government to waste time and money on the things that really matter.

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ACx

I trust you lot complaining or gloating about get-arounds are also lobbying your local MP's and what not. Seems to me there is much complaining on internet forums, but absolutely no pestering of MP's. And one really think Ministers lurk on internet forums like this?

People in the UK need to do what people across Europe do, get of your lardy keyboard warrior arses and make damn sure the politicians know how you feel. If you dont, we will all end up royally screwed.

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Go

Sound and fury ...

... signifying nothing. I think one of your dead guys said that.

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Go

You expect them to actually leave their basements?

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@Doug Glass "...leave their basements"

Attics/bedrooms usually. We don't do basements much as they tend to fill with water (our climate, see).

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Joke

Re: @Doug Glass "...leave their basements"

"We don't do basements much as they tend to fill with water (our climate, see)."

Oh my Gawd! An indoors swimming pool!!!

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"lobbying your local MP's"

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. You know nothing of UK politics. Lobbying works for big business with big money. The little guy that actually really counts i.e. the voter just gets fobbed off with a bit of boilerplate on headed paper.

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"lobbying your local MP's"

I'm sorry, someone seems to have mistaken the UK for a democracy?!*

You'd be better off lobbying the Daily Mail and watching the reaction slowly cascade up into the ranks of government as it seems our politicos only react to media-backed moral crusades these days.

* a FPTP system with more than 2 political parties cannot be truly democratic; odds are, whoever is in power they'll have had a minority of the population voting for them; with 3 parties it's quite possible for the government to be made up of a party that 65% of the population voted against.

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Anonymous Coward

the last thing i 'pirated' from TPB was a copy of Windows XP home edition OEM which i owned a license for anyway but because HP no longer supply XP home CDs and MS stupid licensing meant that officially i had to buy a new Windows license rather than just let me download an iso from their website to be able to reinstall Windows on a laptop i owned the only place i could get a copy of the software was from TPB.

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If, as I understand it, sites like Pirate Bay don't host the files themselves but just pointers to them, how are they any different to Google, which also has links to torrents?

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Google is what we call a VERY BIG COMPANY - this means it has lots of $$$ and so laws don't apply to it.

TPB is what we call a VERY SMALL COMPANY - it doesn't own any politicians but Hollywood does - so it's illegal.

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