Feeds

back to article New dole system is 'digital by default', like it or not

Universal credit – the government's "new and improved" benefits system – will be the first major government service to be digital by default. This is according to Steve Dover, director of major programmes at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). Dover says: "There will be a back office to deal with the more vulnerable in …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Anonymous Coward

"just think of a contact centre, but it has got no people in it and think of an operating model that has got no back office"

Ah, like HMRC then.

4
0
ACx

So, claimants will need internet access. Does this "universal credit" pay for that? What happens is a kiddie in the house hold gets busted under these new anti piracy laws and the connection gets cut off?

The gov need to be careful here. If their services can only be reasonably accessed by the web, then sooner or later there will be called to hand out free connection that cant be cut off.

14
0
Bronze badge
WTF?

tough shit then

why should I be paying for some crims' broadband ?

and why the feck is aforementioned crim getting cash from the government anyway.

2
15
Bronze badge

They've already done this with the Home Access Scheme.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

"and why the feck is aforementioned crim getting cash from the government anyway."

Because is we don't give 'crims' any benefits they will be forced to burgle your house just to feed themselves and their family.

But I guess you're fine with that.

6
0
Anonymous Coward

bigotted twit

Article's example was, some "kiddie" in the household, i.e. one of the other inhabitants. So, if your son or daughter or house sharer or simply visitor does something without your knowledge or consent, you are a "crim" are you?

These people are on the edge all ready. Presumably you will not be happy until bare-foot beggars are a normal part of British street scenes and, as in the USA, a simple stroke of fate such as serious illness or accident or unemployment for more than a fortnight can see you selling your house and falling into poverty, with your children. Oh, and I take it you will pay for the internet access and computer, with a support contract is its guaranteed availability is no longer a luxury.

No doubt you grew up with the benefit of free education, health, child benefit and the safety net in case you or your parents fell ill, lost their jobs. But, being the good soul you are, let's remove all that as only criminals and scroungers get benefits.. No doubt we should bring back the Victorian Poor Law. The Beadle in Oliver Twist is your hero.

Ugh.

7
0

register

Crikey, have they finally done it and made unemployment a crime? Anyway, if the alternative is paying for his travel costs to the dole centre, an internet connection might be the cheaper alternative.

2
0

Which "crim" would this be?

Perhaps stu 4 can enlighten us as to which criminal offence has supposedly been comitted by the OPs hypothetical family?

4
0

Re: Which "crim" would this be?

Isn't it obvious: being poor. Soon to be outlawed so there's one less thing in Cameron's Britain to offend the Chipping Norton Set.

2
0
FAIL

Which they closed in Nov 2010

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/10/home_access_scheme_dropped/

0
0

What could possibly go wrong...

...see title.

2
0

I might have been harsh...

...congratulations whoever got them away from waterfall.

0
0
Silver badge
Stop

Congratulate them after something is delivered that works. It doesnt matter what the dev methodology if the end result is crap.

3
0
Anonymous Coward

WooHoo and thank you

The improvement in the services from the DWP is to be commended.

The first great innovation was paying benefit into a bank account, especially child benefit where the status checks are so low. No need to ever present yourself at a post office.

They also got rid of most of their Fraud Officers a few years ago.

Now claiming by the Internet, this is just the icing on the cake.

Praise Be

John Smith

Lagos.

10
0

This post has been deleted by its author

Anonymous Coward

I have a cheaper solution...

I'll take off in my blimp and periodically throw handfuls of loose change down at the peasantry! If we herd them into an enclosed area we can turn it into a spectators' sport! Sell TV rights, tickets to the events...

Finally they might earn the money they are given.

1
2
Anonymous Coward

They had to bring in outside help????????

They have an army of people in the Corporate IT directorate, not one of them had the skills for this?

There's more people managing the the outsourcers now in CIT than when they did it in-house under ITSA.

"Agile? Wasssat?" There's too many dead-wood paper-pushers in CIT that are bloody useless and shouldn't be allowed near a filing cabinet and certainly not an IT project!

I see Joe Harley's really has done so well in his tenure, getting CIT where it needs to be to deliver a world class service. Crock of shite!

And now his remit is bigger than before

we're dooooooooomed

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Nonsense

4000 people under ITSA down to 228 after the latest round of redundancies?

Check yer maths out matey

0
0

Sigh

I am wondering if the chinless wonders who've come up with this have the remotest clue?

Many people on benefits can barely manage to pay food and heating, im sure they're bouncing for joy about this.

Not to mention those who dont have a computer will be down the libraries to 'use' it there. You know, the places that think patches are something you wear at the elbow... And that netscape is the latest in technology

The really fun part? Taxpayers will be paying twice - once to set it up, and once to pay for the damage.

...For everything else, theres COMMON SENSE.

2
0
Big Brother

Libraries?

A lot fewer of those around these days.

Big Brother says - if you are poor, disposessed, unrepresented and marginalised - well done for practicing for the future - have a banana.

2
0
Anonymous Coward

What libraries?

The ones being closed to save money, while moaning about decreasing literacy?

So sad to see a once civilised, tolerant country descending into the Americanised abyss and Gradgrind penny-pinching.

4
1
Anonymous Coward

Re: What libraries?

The demise of libraries is a symptom and not the cause.

The real culprit is the like of facebook and twitter where kids get their culture via 'memes' and in 140 character slices.

If it were up to me I would insist that all posts to social media were treated the same as they would in a spell checker and posted with all miss-spellings underlined in red.

You could even add a dunce cap icon if you were feeling particularly mischievous.

0
0
WTF?

> professional facilitation of agile elaboration workshops

Surely the phrase of the week. I don't thjink I'd be able to say "professional facilitation of agile elaboration workshops" and keep a straight face...

4
0

We could probably save a small, but welcome, fraction of our taxes by getting rid of anyone paid to come up with contorted language like that.

4
0
Thumb Up

Agile? Thanks god

at least it may actually be some good and deliver what is needed unlike all Waterfall/Prince2 crap they have been screwing up merrily for the past two decades.

In response to those who obviously haven't been in a dole office in the past 5 years, they all have several internet kiosks and under this will have more for those without their own access. Those with won't have to waste their time trekking into the office to have a piece of paper signed. In short I think this is a GREAT idea.

0
0
Stop

'professional facilitation of agile elaboration workshops'

I'm willing to bet that no-one, not even the author of that document, knows what that phrase means.

Presumably they just hire people who say 'yeah baby, I'll facilitate the crap out of those agile elaboration workshops, and professionally too'.

4
0

This post has been deleted by its author

Silver badge

Presumably, they mean daily scrum*, but that would require some explanations as well and doesn't sound like it's been agilely elaborated in a professional facilitation workshop.

*or whichever the agile project management flavour of the day is.

0
0
Headmaster

Pah, eurmbeurg

I often find myself telling francophone colleagues that they are "developing" stuff, not "elaborating" it. How can I convince them if people like Mr. Dover (think of those white cliffs, man!) come out with logorrhoea like this?

0
0
Silver badge

To judge from my experience "elaboration" is a boring phase that comes between specification and development (I expect these two had special polysyllabic names, too, but I couldn't stay awake long enough to find out).

The idea was to turn a statement of requirements into something that could be built and, more important, tested. Quite a few requirements would be thrown out because they were non-testable and therefore vaporous.

"Facilitation" of course is the same as making something easier, except that it costs a lot more.

1
0

That'll be...

... because both you and your colleagues are unaware that the correct English translation for French "elaborer" is not "to elaborate". The technical term in linguistics is "false friend" and they abound between closely related languages like French and English. Here's a selection of other apparently similar French words that do not have the same meaning in English:

"demander" == "to ask" (e.g. a question) and not the stronger "to demand"

"actuel" == "current" and not "actual"

"deception" == "disappointment" and not ""deception"

"terminer" == "to finish" and not the full sense of English "to terminate"

"commander" == "to order" (as in a restaurant) and not "to command" in its sense of "give orders" (pun, yes, deliberate, yes)

"dégradé" can have a sense that has nothing whatever to do with "degraded".

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Would this new online service also include google analytics, tracking scripts and other nastiness as most government websites seem to do these days?

With the met office now showing adverts on their website it's not impossible to imagine the DWP doing the same sort of thing here. Imagine adverts for Ocean finance or Wonga.com appearing next to the form to claim benefits.

3
0
Anonymous Coward

See the ads now....

"Not getting your due worth from the Government? Then call this free number today! Let us fight to get you more money from the tax payer!"

2
0
Anonymous Coward

One other thing: the HMRC portal for e-filing has shown itself to be quite flaky on occasion. On a number of occasions now it has returned HTML despite the standard that HMRC themselves had come up with saying that it should return XML.

What reason does anybody have to think that this won't be just as flaky and won't have problems withstanding the demand placed upon it?

0
1
Anonymous Coward

Do you mean "should" return XML or "must" return XML. If it's "should", it's not even a bug.

1
1
Anonymous Coward

Must. Not should.

Anything else would not make sense in this context.

From the looks of things the HTML concerned is the sort generated by IIS to show a generic .net error page.

0
0
Bronze badge
Windows

Shall.

That'll sort it. It's absolutely going to happen.

(Judge)

"The prisomer should go to jail"

"The prisoner must go to jail"

"The prisoner shall go to jail"

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Again with the downvoting.

And for those of you that think the government is capable of learning it's lessons just look at this article from 2005 and their reaction to EDS's apparent failure to provide adequate systems. The subsequent course of action? The DWP hires EDS for more work of course...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/05/hmrc_credit_portal/

IT experience within government is sorely lacking. The goverment often seem to rely on the private sector and they seem to like nothing more than being given the opportunity to screw the tax payer.

Incidentally going back to the HMRC it seems that portal had been subcontracted out to a thrid party, and it would be likely for the same to happen with the DWP systems too. HMRC are very hesitant it seems to get problems fixed, and I'm guessing that this is because the subcontractor that built the service charges more for such fixes (yet more incentive to provide a bad service - http://dilbert.comhttp://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-12-06/).

0
0
Silver badge

Got to keep the queues down to manageable levels

Otherwise it looks bad, you see.

2
0

Heaven help...

The disabled, those with learning difficulties, people that just can't use a computer - or find the process of using one fearful.

I wonder if there will be people left to actually offer advice, or will the system rely on the claimants knowing what they are entitled to.

ttfn

4
0
Facepalm

there are those that won't, those that can't and those that can't and won't

After training in the community for UK*nline for nearly 7 years, I think I've seen how the demographic lies. A lot of people are going to be screwed.

No one talks about being able to read, never mind using a freaking computer...?!

2
0
Anonymous Coward

So the people that need this thing most...

... are shunted off to the slow path?

Because, you know, the people that don't need it much are so much easier to cater for, and can be made to jump through all the hoops requiring fancy machinery, saving pennies on entry and exit costs in the full process execution.

Sounds like the newest government approach to this "digital" thing is not to horribly fail in execution but to get that right (enough for government work), only to find that the resulting machinery of highly integrated systems and properly trained civil servants might be delivering something, but not at all what they're supposed to deliver.

Because really, if the process inside the service is well-regulated, then it can deal with electronic, paper, or in-person submission with little difference and will respect citizens' wishes about how to be contacted. Not understanding this is a failure of understanding how to build your own processes.

0
0

I have facilitated your workshop. Pray I don't facilitate it any further!

0
0
(Written by Reg staff)

Re:

As mum would say: I'll facilitate YOU in a minute!

0
0
FAIL

So does that mean that Devvo and Dazza can start receiving benefits without even having to go to the job centre? They may aswell have a web page with a big button that says CLICK HERE FOR FREE MONEY! As per usual, making it easier to milk the benefits cow, while nobody wants to feed it.

1
2

See...

.....http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/03/thick_kids_racist/

1
0
Silver badge

They'll be able to update their Facebook status to "just claiming benefits"

0
0
Silver badge
Mushroom

professional facilitation of agile elaboration workshops

Aaaaarrrgh! Cthulu has risen!

2
0
Anonymous Coward

Smirk

I like the idea of the "unmployment office" doing just that...

"The starting point, I said to our telephony collaboration teams based in Newcastle, was just think of a contact centre, but it has got no people in it and think of an operating model that has got no back office, and start from there," said Dover.

So yeah...at least they'll have "customers" waiting to test the new system :/

Though, if history is anything to go by, they'll forgo the testing and maybe even the rollout :)

0
0
Anonymous Coward

"web-enabled internet channel"

At a time when so many are unemployed, why do people who spout crap like this still have a job?

1
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.