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back to article Try a 'shroom before ruling on chill pills, boffin tells gov

The government may never be able to “think rationally” about the therapeutic properties of hallucinogenic drugs, says Professor David Nutt. The top boffin was speaking on the publication of two new studies that show the anti-depressant qualities of magic mushrooms. Prof Nutt, who was sacked from his role as Blighty's top drug …

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Happy

YAY!

Fun AND good for you - not much else you can say that about these days!

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In perspective.

The actual shrooms taste foul and are liable to make you vomit.

Allegedly.

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g e
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Hah!

Those two qualities alone will make the gubbernment keep the stuff banned

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fun?

The government will insist any 'fun' element is classified 'abuse potential' and eliminated from any approved version of the drug. Basically, if it's any fun and the fun can't be removed somehow it's banned by default, and the sufferers of the diseases it cures can go fuck themselves.

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Pint

Re: In perspective.

" The actual shrooms taste foul and are liable to make you vomit."

Funny, when I started drinking I thought the same thing about alcohol.

Thankfully I grew out of it.

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Happy

Just like most Govt proclamations, then.

Which also leave a foul taste in the mouth, and induce the desire to vomit.

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No, it's not a habituation thing

Psilocybin mushrooms grow best on old cow shit. Guess what they taste like?

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Anonymous Coward

WRONG, those are the toxic variety, leave them alone!

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From personal experience, they taste like nothing. Closest is unsalted popcorn flesh.

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Angel

I love mushrooms

I eat the good ones and avoid the poisonous ones.

are these poisonous?

man made stuff is bad for you. these were made by God

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Its not really the taste..

Its the texture and the fact that my throat clamps shut when i attempt to eat them.

That and the fact that walls shouldn't breathe!!!!!

Fun though in the right dose, too much and youre in for a rough ride, mopre so if you arent in safe comfortable surroundings....

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Psylocibin Mexicana

Tastes like shit washed down with bitrex. Hits you like a sledgehammer and leaves you drooling on the sofa trying not to vomit for a good quarter hour. Was more fun after that.

Legally obtained btw.

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Black Helicopters

Make tea. Hold your nose while drinking. Apparently.

The psilocybin is not active until hydrolysed. Stomach acids do this. Hence the 30 - 60 minute delay before onset of "symptoms" and the feeling of having been ripped off if you didn't pick them yourself but bought them. Allegedly.

Apparently if you boil them in water, this will hydrolyse the stuff for you, so when it is imbibed it gets to work right away.

My friend tells me someone he knows would pinch his nose and drink the lot in one go. That way you only taste the last mouthful after you let go of your nose. Even Vimto doesn't render it palatable. Supposedly.

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Angel

They're good when you put them on a pizza...

um... so I've heard...

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Windows

“What's fascinating is that you could think they wouldn't, and of course you're right.”

I've read that 1000 times, and it still doesn't make any sense.

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try some of this lovely mushroom tea

then read it again. all will become clear.

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Makes perfect sense

“What's fascinating is that you could think they wouldn't, and of course you're right.”

Prof. Nutt is saying that such unequivocal certainty must be the result of unbalanced and unnatural thought processes.

It's borderline demented gubmint indoctrination: Drugs=Bad which is, demonstrably, bollocks.

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We will not be seen as a government that endorse drug use!

Now shut up and eat your Prozac.

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Devil

It starts making sense when you see approval stats

The best drug against diarrhea which is prescribed everywhere in Europe for cases of acute dehydration including ones from Norovirus (winter vomiting bug) was developed by the French by taking morphine and playing with it until all nasty bits are gone and only the "constipates" bit is left. It is non-addictive, it has been proven to be clinically safe from kids through adults to geriatrics worldwide to the point where in most of Europe it is available over the counter. It has saved hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.

The only country in Europe which pretends that it does not exist is UK. French + morphine origin. UK approval? You _GOTTA_ _BE_ _KIDDING_...

Sorry, do not have the time to go and peek in my travel kit for the name (I resupply regularly with it when I go to the continent and so do quite a few other people who have to travel to unpleasant places).

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Coat

Don't forget to wash it down with some Cabernet Sauvignon.

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Anonymous Coward

Natural drugs = bad

But take all the Xanax, OxyContin, Hydrocodone, Adderall, Prozac, Desoxyn (prescription methamphetamine for ADD treatment), Ambien, Ritalin and Viagra your doctors prescribe. *That's* ok. Got it?

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Wash It Down ? Y'mean Wash Your Hands ?

This is France we're talking about ... Everything medicinal goes up the bum.

That includes sticking plasters, splints and spectacles in some Arrondissements.

Method of delivery is possibly one reason the regulatory people are squeamish about registering the wonder drug mentioned by Voland's right hand for use in the UK.

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Drugs=Bad

Is that a) more bollocks, b) less bollocks, or c) about the same degree of bollocks as the "Drugs=Good" counter-propaganda beloved of so many in the so-called counter-culture?

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Devil

@El Presidente

No, it is not delivered the "french way".

Standard oral suspension (phenomenally vile as taste so you usually have to force kids to take it).

Name is Racecadotril.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racecadotril

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Alert

@Aaron Em

The answer is a).

Next question?

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Holmes

Cure for diarrhea

What I used to swear by out east was paregoric: camphorated tincture of opium. When I returned to UK in 1972, I was actually able to persuade a pharmacist in the local Boots to make me up a 20 cc bottle of it. Sinc e you only use one drop in about 5 - 10 cc of water for each dose - and you'll only need the one - it lasted quite a long time. Doubt if I could get it now.

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@Voland's right hand

How do you explain kaolin and morphine mixture being available over the counter in the UK? Is it only allowed because it's not French?

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All drugs are good

And the more you take, the better they get.

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Joke

Are you suggesting the British

Don't like it up 'em?

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WTF?

Bloody hell! It's actually all about flatfish, motorcycles and pixies!

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Anonymous Coward

Alright Jones, settle down

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Kaolin and Morphine

Exactly - we used to be given this as kids to treat diarohea. I remember it used to settle off into the two constituent parts in the bottle and you had to shake it up to mix before taking. Tasted like chalk.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/digestive-health/medicines/kaolin-and-morphine-mixture.html

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Boffin

@Voalnd's right hand

In the UK, you can buy loperamide, for pennies from most supermarkets. This too acts upon the morphine receptors in the gut, is safe, non-addictive and has relatively few side effects. I'm not sure what drug you are talking about, but loperamide works fine, and is non-prescription.

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Its called loperamide

and is available over the counter is the UK, they sell it in petrol stations.

Imodium is the brand name in the UK.

Back to the mushrooms. The ban something that grows naturally is quite abusrb, nobody has ever been hurt by magic mushrooms. There are plenty of mushrooms out there that can kill you but they are not banned. The magic ones however are banned. This makes no sense at all.

You cant get addicted to mushrooms, it is simply not possible as anyone who has taken the will confirm.

Do reacreational concerns then it mattters not what the government ban and dont ban, people will continue to ignore them in any case. That war on drugs that they have been waging for sometime does not appear to have made much progress.

The sad thing is that when a clinical reaosn is found to help people with a real problem, they wont hear of it. I dont think that goverments are qualified or approriate to make medical decisions.

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Careful with that dosage, Eugene

I, for one, can attest to the recreational possibilities of 250 very fresh shrooms....

Beware the dose size!

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Would that be considered a "Heroic Dose" ?

When can we get a Bill Hicks icon ?

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Anonymous Coward

Personally I'd like to see the aftermath of parliament trying to discuss drugs objectively whilst whacked out on shrooms.

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Anonymous Coward

No comment

I once partook of some shrooms and watched a political rally. I knew I was fucked when some of what they said started making sense.

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Anonymous Coward

It would probably make more sence then when they try to do it under the effect of alcool. Or worst, sober!

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I, for one, welcome

our new tripping-balls-by-noontime overlords.

Me, though, I'll stick to managing depression by methods that don't twist me so far out of my tits that I can no longer hold down a job. Boring, I know.

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Anonymous Coward

Not boring...

...depressing.

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Coat

I see what you did there

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Depressing?

Less so, I think, than unemployment.

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Anonymous Coward

I voted you up ...

For this: "twist me so far out of my tits"

My new phrase for the rest of the week, I think.

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Addictiveness

Question is, is psilocybin addictive?

I bet it's not as addictive as Seroxat (paroxetine) - which my body has been dependent on for over a decade, on prescription.

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Flame

Tricky question

"Addictive" is a moveable feast (which is one trick the prohibitionist lobby use to scare the public ...). There are different elements of "addiction", none of which the average man in the street knows about.

Food is physically addictive. Without it, you die.

Nicotine is physically and psychologically addictive. It's continued use can be shown to create physiological changes which cause the body to react to withdrawal. Same for alcohol.

Cannabis is, if anything, psyychologically addictive. Users like it, but withdrawal causes no appreciable physiological effect.

I'm not a pharmakineticist, but would hazard that psilocybin is not addictive in any meaningful sense of the word.

Of course the real question which gets dodged, should be "what, if any, are the risks of addiction".

Personally I am sick to the back teeth of the shite science peddled in the name of the "war on drugs", by a hypocritical government. My wife is addicted to benzodiazepienes, thanks to doctors (who would knock a spliff out of your hand) dishing them out like smarties. And when I say "addicted" I mean it. Sudden withdrawal runs a very real risk of death.

There was a very good article in the Graniud a few years ago, posing the very good question: "Why is it so bad to get high ?". It asked why doctors are so scared to use medicines which get you high, when they are happy to prescribe medicines which can make your life hell (anyone on Chemo will know). Nauseau, drowsiness, digestion problems, headaches, hair loss, libido loss ....

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Addictive? No

Repeated use of psilocybin does not lead to physical dependence.

Above quote is from Wikipedia but I happen to have known that to be true since before Wikipedia existed.

I'm sorry to hear about your Seroxsat dependancy.

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Anonymous Coward

Seroxat

I was prescribed this once, and it made me seriously contemplate suicide in the most macabre ways. I'd never even considered suicide prior to taking it.

Needless to say I gave it back and sorted myself out*

*well, you know.

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Anonymous Coward

addictive?

Hell, no. It's pretty much the opposite, in fact. Psyloci(bi)n and LSD are pretty hard going, and the higher the dose you take, the more likely you are to have an unpleasant trip. It can be pleasant at low enough doses, but going overboard can make you feel like you're losing your mind, dying, or that the world is out to get you, trigger depressive or psychotic episodes, etc. (ie, "the bad trip"). For most people (particularly those that like to feel in control of themselves, or have borderline psychological problems that are just about in check), that's something that they'll never want to repeat. So in that sense, it's got the opposite profile of most other stimulant drugs which, once you've got a taste of them, you want more.

There's also the issue of recovery time. Having your brain switched into a higher gear like this, with no way of turning it off except to ride it out can be very mentally tiring. Not so many people would want to take these drugs again the following day. Fewer still have the inclination (or the time; you're talking about "losing" 6--8 hours for each trip and comedown time, longer if it's LSD) to go on an extended binge, and even that (IME) tends to be self-limiting, as you need more recovery time. A week or two (when mushies are in season, natch) of taking something every second day seems like a practical limit, and even then you'll find people end up taking smaller doses so they can pace themselves and not get too out of it.

Of course YMMV, and I wouldn't recommend anyone who's unsure of what they're doing or doesn't have supportive friends they can turn to in case anything should go wrong to seek these out. You might have a very bad experience you will regret. Or you might be the one person in 100,000 (completely made-up figure) with just the wrong sort of personality or brain chemistry that finds they can become addicted to shrooms. The latter is highly unlikely, IMO, but I'd never say never.

Personally, getting back to the article itself, I think the main problem with psychedelic drugs of any kind isn't the drug itself, but society and societal contexts for drug-taking (the two feed into one another---making the drugs illegal makes it more likely that the context for drug-taking involves more criminality and abuse, which feeds society's condemntion and ostracisation, which feeds ...). I'm not going to go all hippy and say everyone should take drugs (they shouldn't), but I do think society needs more "grown up" attitudes to drug-taking. That means, among other things, treating people like adults and letting them make up their own minds instead of treating them like children, stop using hyperbolic scare stories and start giving proper, non-judgemental advice on drug safety rather than treating the user as a criminal, and admit that we've been using drugs for millennia and that prohibition has never worked and never will... Many cultures have managed to incorporate use of psychedelics into their societies in the same way that some of our cultures have managed to develop fairly sensible attitudes to alcohol (while others, and other individuals) have not. I just think that there is definitely a need and a possibility for a more enlightened stance regarding the use of all drugs in society. Treat shrooms as a "special medicine" and not as an "illegal chemical" (the same goes for lawmakers and users here).

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