On Saturday, 7 January, a Canadian DNS host named EasyDNS winked out of existence. This was a preview of what SOPA promises to be like. Suffering from a massive DDoS, all DNS services provided by EasyDNS simply ceased to function. Metacritic and DSL Reports are two examples of sites that affected me directly. Random but …
I have also decided not to host in the US.
There are several reasons for me:
-Insecure. Weak privacy laws, the government might want to intrude my systems, legally insecure for me as they might argue that I am doing business in the US...
-Slow. I live in EU ant most of my users are in the EU (some are in south america, spanish..)
These kind of laws just mean that they are making it a less nice place to do business.. and not only that, but they are making it less desirable to do business with us companies or companies that have a stake in the US.
I have also moved away from having hosted services in Spain, as they are less proffesional (bad service) than abroad.. and then we have our own US-imposed SOPA: SINDE law... carefully dictated by the US (and we have prove: leaked cables).
As for EasyDNS, I am also a customer.. I am testing their services for a couple of weeks and will start having a paying service this week.
If the US wishes to "protect" itself from online piracy outside the US, they will simply cage themselves. this legislation is more proof that the powers that be just don't understand how the internet works.
if you restrict my business in doing what it's always done, business, then i'm going to seek outside resources, outside being another country. there is no other result then complete isolation for the US, which i assume is the most unwanted result possible.
Hosting in the USA a bad idea with or without SOPA
If you host in the USA then US officials have easy access to your customer's data, your customers have no privacy.
And if you have some civil litigation, US courts are much more harsh on foreigners than US citizens, and it is not just customary, there are even regulations requiring this.
Unless you need to, because most of your traffic is US based, hosting in the USA is a bad idea.
I host in the UK
But I'm still slightly concerned - my domain is a .com. Under SOPA, that's classed as a 'domestic' site, even though it has fuck all to do with the US.
Thinking I may have to register a .co.uk and return the .com.
Get the co.uk and have the .com auto-redirect. You don't have to return it. Just a thought...
SOPA could have positive effects, like global decentralization
This is why on one level I say, GOOD, let them cage themselves and close themselves off. We in Britain, Europe, and elsewhere can then concentrate on doing our own thing, build up our own server farms, build our networks that are more independent and can survive on their own, more non-American search engines, etc., etc.
To those who say "nobody is safe, there will be an avalanche of extradition cases"...well, how long do you think those extradition laws will remain on the books if it becomes bloody chaos? The cause for not extraditing anyone to the USA, except in very rare cases, will become very strong indeed. And international treaties be damned, they will just have to be amended, which they will be if so many states in the world become frustrated with the extradition situation.
But of course, at the same time a huge danger remains...namely that instead of doing our own thing, our governments will start to copy SOPA, that they will take the lazy way out and follow the American example. That would truly be the worst case scenario and we have to do everything we can to prevent it...not so much prevent SOPA, but prevent it becoming a standard that everyone adopts.
Hosting outside the US won't work
especially when Pres Obama signed into law an act that extends US laws worldwide. There is no hiding place.
You might be in Country A and host something that is perfectly legal in that Country BUT illegal (vis breaks copyright) in the US.
The US could try to get you extradited but Country A says 'bog off'.
Then you go to another country 'B' on vacation or Business. Country 'B' has signed up to be 'America's Bitch' and hands you over to the US.
You get taken to the US and suddenly, you are lost. You will have no rights to a lawyer, legal representation and can be held indefinitely without charge or trial.
Please explain how hosting outside the US is going to stop you coming under SOPA/PIPA or whatever crazy law that Hollywood dreams up next week.
Anon. That will at least make them work a bit harder to send the Black Helicopters for me.
Re: Hosting outside the US won't work
>especially when Pres Obama signed into law an act that extends US laws worldwide. There is no hiding place.
@AC at 11:06
The USA has the money (for now, China will have it all soon).
The USA has the guns.
The USA has their sock-puppet nations (e.g. UK)
Thus USA laws already apply worldwide.
Only a terrorist would disagree with USA freedoms, so if one disagrees one must be a terrorist.
One will then be renditioned and tortured until one gives the correct answers.
You will all obey the land of the free.
He said his customers are outside the USA so is it not obvious?
He said his customers are outside the USA, so is the answer to your question not obvious?
He won't care if the US government blocks him.
And his customers can be assured that their data is not easily available to any US official who wants it.
US freedoms? You can read about them in history books, but
US freedoms? You can read about them in history books, but sadly that is about it.
His says his clients are mostly outside of the USA,
His says his clients are mostly outside of the USA, so why would he care if the USA blocked him?
As I recall, a statement was made during interview last yet that American courts don't care *how* you wind up in America, you'll be prosecuted if they think you broke American Law (possibly including illegal immigration at that point).
Or, to put it simply: They are happy for bounty hunters to kidnap you from other countries, regardless of if an extradition treatise exists or not.
I'm more interested...
...how you managed to sneak markup past El Regs input filters*?
*unless those filters were otherwise known as moderators, who no-longer prowl these lands.
Assuming he doesn't want paying.
eBay, all the credit cards and almost all banks do whatever the USA wants
They may make good chav TV but they cannot operate outside of the US. To kidnap a citizen for extradition you need to extract that person from the country/continent. Best of luck with that one. Seeing as a bounty hunter cannot legally carry a concealed firearm in, for example, the UK I'd be oh so happy to see them "tough it out" against one of our trigger-happy CO19 units, let alone if the wanted person was part of, say, the Albanian mafia. Personally I'd piss myself laughing at seeing them try.
You're thinking in terms of getting someone out of the UK (specifically) without extradition proceedings. Sure, that's going to be hard and it's going to be expensive, but not impossible. However, popping over the boarder to Mexico to grab someone isn't difficult. Dangerous, perhaps, but not difficult.
The point about bounty hunters is that they're private citizens: They can go anywhere they want as they don't need official sanction to travel. What they do outside of the US is at their own risk, and the US keep their hands clean if they're court. If they did kidnap someone in the UK and successfully sneak them over to the US, the US courts would likely approve the extradition of the accused, but they won't return the person kidnapped if they're wanted within the US - and that was the point being made in that interview (BBC I believe).
Basically the US don't care about how they get their 'man', just that they do. Why this isn't common place is the backlash. They've weathered the Pakistan backlash when they went in after Binladen, and they'd endure the disapproval of the UK if they wanted someone badly enough over here, but most people are either not worth the cost and effort, the risk of political sanctions, or there are safer avenues to pursue first.
So sure, dismiss the possibility, but just be aware the US has ignored foreign sovereignty before to get someone, and will do so again.
JCB is not the only major Credit Card.. Union Pay is the Chinese one, and that is even accepted in places in London now!
But none of this matters when the PM bends over for the USA and lets them extradite people for acts that are not even Crimes in the UK!
Copyright Violation is not theft.
Copyright Violation is not a crime,
Copyright Violation is still a Civil offence in the UK,
So please say NO to extradition when its not a crime here!
JCB not only major credit card?
I would go further than that and say that JCB is not a major credit card. Here in the UK, I see the JCB logo in shop windows next to the Visa, Mastercard and Amex logos, but I've never actually seen one of them.
Are they yellow amd tough?
I followed the link from the article, and their Web site is shite. Maybe I could get a card, but I'd never know from looking there.
The irony of JCB
That website is what you would expect from a Japanese financial company, i.e. not much of a window to the world outside because they figure they don't such a window.
It's probably common knowledge that several Japanese markets have for the longest time been protected, if not to say outright protectionist, and that they tend to develop their own standards and Japan-only conglomerates and ways of doing things (for example, it's only in recent years that western-issued Visa and Mastercard have become genuinely useable there. You still have to go from ATM to ATM machine to find one that accepts your western-issued cards, but finding one takes considerably less time than it used to). The financial industry used to be an excellent example of this.
What I am saying is that there is considerable irony in the fact that the only non-American global credit card company is Japanese, of all things.
It's what the US does...
Ride rough-shod over the rest of the world...
I laugh at the fact that everyone claims the UK is considered a colonial power in decline as if it were the only one and heartily welcome the US to the party. We, admittedly, had our day but how does it feel to slowly turn to shit in the modern world as opposed to the start of the 20th century?
Bitter? No, just somewhat amused to see how the top dog takes its medicine.
This is a local dispute
I have no interest in it. Wikipedia's decision to take the whole English-speaking world offline demonstrates once and for all that they are a dangerous cult and we shouldn't become too dependent on them.
Anyone that "depends" on Wikipedia as a source of information deserves all they get.
The problem is that this dangerous cult is already convincing all the other countries to pass laws that their paymasters want. Just read up on it; Canada, Australia, Spain... Oh, and if that doesn't work, they just invade or put in puppet leaders (see the first laws passed in the new Iraq, or look in Afganistan or Egypt).
I agree that we shouldn't become dependant on them. Also since they are so concerned about being affected by those outside their borders, they should close them, cut all the internet links and just become a big hermit state like North Korea.
Oh hold on; did you mean Wikipedia is a cult? I thought you were talking about USA......
Wikipedia don't owe you anything.
Stop being so entitled.
You don't get to complain when a sit owner impedes access to THEIR OWN SITE, no matter how useful it is to you, or anyone else.
Especially when it's done in protest of legislation that affects the entire world - hardly a local dispute.
Can't tell if trolling or just stupid.
Tell that to the voters in Egypt
"or put in puppet leaders (see the first laws passed in the new Iraq, or look in Afganistan or Egypt)."
In actual fact if the polls are right then the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafist Nour Party are going to form the majority in the new Parliament. Not something the people in Washington or Israel will welcome surely. So where are your "puppet leaders" going to come from?
The Egyptians got rid of Mubarak by themselves with no help from outsiders.
Wikipedia blackout? What Wikipedia blackout?
Ignore the silly Wikipedia blackout and use the mobile site (en.m.wikipedia.org) if you need to use them for something today.
Is Wikipedia blacked out?
I've just been to Wikipedia and I get a message saying "The English Wikipedia is currently locked for the SOPA/PIPA blackout", but I can still read all the articles.
I'm in Bolivia. Is Wikipedia actually blacked out if you access it from the UK or USA?
All they seem to have done is overlayed a div over the normal content showing a message, firebug/IE Dev toolbar does a good job of allowing access again.
The Taliban outlawed radios and kites
The US seems to be going down a similar path...
If the internet is the collective brain of humanity
America is a swollen blood vessel just waiting to stroke out. I'm sure we will manage without them though.
just more of the same
They changed flight "transit" rules so you have to go through customs, apply for visas etc just to pass through there in transit. Not like that in any other country. Consequently I simply don't get flights "via" the US (never mind actually go there).
Reap what you sow.
@AC 11:46: "They changed flight "transit" rules so you have to go through customs, apply for visas etc just to pass through there in transit. Not like that in any other country."
You need transit visas in Australia, even if you don't leave the airport or even the plane, if you're not holding a passport that would give you an automatic visitor's visa. Here in NZ, every year at the end of term we see hordes of Chinese students queuing for Oz transit visas (cheapest route to China from NZ is via Oz)
Who fucking cares?
Unless you're headed to NZ (I'm sure they thank them for putting extra pressure on their tourism industry) nobody gives a fuck what Australia does, and I live there.
As an Aussie ex-pat you are right
no one gives a fuck, and that includes me.
The country of my passport has become a joke and I am embarrassed every time I have to show it.
Anon, obviously, since I don't want to be rendered ...
Please support this fine law
By all means, introduce DNS blocking. For all intents and purposes, this will mean that US bases DNS servers become unreliable. This creates opportunities for alternative DNS systems. Soon, we will have not one but many DNS services. A distributed system outside of the control of any one government. This might be a hassle at first, but it will actually make the internet more resilient.
And feel free to hamstring your own businesses. Not only will business be discinclined to base their hosts in the US, they will also be disinclined to use US based banks, payment providers, add companies and other services because of the extra risk this legislation poses to business.
Passing this law is an important step towards a free (if somewhat anarchistic) internet and a major step towards solving the Euro crisis. I'm not sure how it contributes to world peace and the proliferation of unicorns, but I'm sure we can think of a way.
Distributed system == Not trustworthy?
As has already occurred with DNS itself, a loss of control of DNS services equates to a loss of security and opens holes for man in the middle and re-routing attacks. Trying to find secure, guaranteed routing would be like trying to find totally trustworthy and accurate information on Wikipedia - a fool's errand.
The internet doesn't work, at least not well enough for things like on-line banking and secure email, unless safe routing can be assured. It is hard to envision a system of "community moderated" DNS that would not be subject to manipulation...
Well, the Dot-BIT project are currently experimenting with p2p dns in the namecoin project. It applies to .bit domains only but who knows, maybe one day all domain name will work that way.
If only that would work... What would actually happen (c.f. the DMCA) is more like:
The US: "We've passed SOPA. Now it's your turn, UK/Europe/Etc: pass this version, which is more draconian and gives Hollywood the right to kidnap people from your country and hold them indefinitely."
Some Plucky Country: "You have to be kidding, why would we do that?"
The US: "Watch your trade with us decline. Watch as our politicians, and worse, Hollywood demonises your country in speeches, movies, blogs and news channels. Within two years your tourism will have dried up; within four years, you'll routinely see internet blowhards proposing we invade you. Within six years, at least two members of congress will have suggested it, because there is literally nothing they will not say if they think it will win them a cheap round of applause somewhere. If you don't think that's an uncomfortable position to be in, just ask the Iranians."
SPC: "Can we at least keep our trousers on?"
I'm sure the US will, at some point, regret just how good that system turned out to be.
All politicians backing SOPA need to be taken down hard. Supporting SOPA needs to be made a career destroying move. We need lists of every politician who backs it in any way and to publicly globally damn and condemn them during their re-election campaigns, to bring awareness of what a danger they are to freedom and freedom of speech.
The US politicians talk of being in the “land of the free” so that needs to be used as the politicians Achilles heal so to speak. They want their people to believe they are free and everywhere else is less free, when really the backers of acts like SOPA are control freak politicians who are moving towards ever greater authoritarian control of their people and to meet the wishes of the growing global Corporatocracy.
As these politicians want to fuck up our freedom then its time to fight back and bring them down hard and destroy their careers. We need to stand up to them and saying no more.
You're talking as if democracy means something in the US.
Unfortunately I know democracy means nothing in our time. Democracy has become a lie to make us think we have any say in how we are ruled, yet those rules are all too often chosen by the wishes of the rich and powerful who truly rule our lives. They are the growing global Corporatocracy that I referred to, who truly rule our lives and the lives of the politicians who they pay for.
Yet the Internet can help expose that lie and its no wonder the politicians and rich and powerful would move towards a system of increased state control that allowed them all to shut down any site that exposes evidence of their wrong doing, under the guise of it being their copyrighted material, whist at the same time doing exactly what the rich and powerful corporations want in increasing their power to control all of us as well.
Test today: Which news media can you trust to report the facts?
Today the SOPA and PIPA protest will reveal to the public which news media distorts news when it has a conflict of interest. Are your favorite news sources goodies or a badies? Today we will find out.
Please read the links of the websites protesting SOPA and PIPA today to see what they are actually protesting.
Please then read what the network news media says the protest is about.
If you learn one thing one the internet today it will be the extent to which most major media companies, including network TV news and 24 hour news networks, and the print media organizations associated with them, cover-up, lie and distort when it suits their interests.
And hopefully you will also find which news media sources you can rely on for the truth.
They are baddies... duh
All the parent companies for these news orgs wrote cheques to get this shit sammich passed.