A Nokia exec has identified the target market to which his Espoonians will "deliver services and phones that are different" from the industry-leading iPhone and Android-based smartphones: jaded kids. "What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones. Everyone has the iPhone," Nokia Entertainment Global sales …
WinPho = WinPhoney
Saw what you did there, are you on stage coz you is brill
Only problem with windows phone is
it doesn't have iTunes and iTunes Music store.
That'll change when they start running Windows 8 on phones... someday.
"and visions of sugar-plums danced in his head"
would have been a more appropriate sub-heading... this guy is effin' dreaming!
Yes, it's nice to know that despite the corporate gutting, the Nokia echo chamber of delusion is still intact. "Ooh, we've released a Windows Phone model - isn't that impressive? Let's bask in our own glory for a few months!" Several months pass.
"What do you mean everyone else has released five new models since our last one? We're Nokia, we're special! Wasn't one model enough?"
Seems to be working quite well for Apple!!!
Remember when Nokia was cool?
That was back around 1998. Since then, they have released one pathetic phone after the next. I can safely say... choosing Symbian simply ruining any street cred they could ever hope to regain.
Nokia is "The Granny Phone Company" now. It's hilarious that they're trying to be cool now. What's worse is, that even granny is switching to iPhone and Android now.
Windows Phone is really awesome though... I love it... it's just that I have my whole life eco-system revolving around iPhone these days. I am dumping my iPad for a far more useful Windows 8 Tablet this evening (watching the UPS tracking site as I write) but I can't imagine giving up my iPhone for anything else.
Now, if Apple were to port iTunes to Windows Phone... or somehow made it possible to use purchases from the iTunes music store on their phones... I might be interested. But it's Nokia... I don't think I'd be seen in public toting a Nokia... it's just that I have pride and frankly, Nokia is... well "The Granny Phone Company".
They really should consider changing the company name or spinning off their mobile phone division. No one wants to get their smart phone from "Nok-granny-phone-ia". Well... there are probably some people who wear ties that might... but that's only because they don't get it.
I agree with you thought... it's too funny to hear the head of the granny phone company talking about fashion :)
"The market is saturated"
What was also missed out was:
"We are a company with a damaged reputation from many recent poor phones trying to release a new product into a saturated market. We'll be totally fine."
WP8 may be very good, and the new Nokia is pretty decent, but they've still got a mountain to climb to make a success of it.
"my whole life eco-system"
Your whole fucking what?
"I can safely say... choosing Symbian simply ruining any street cred they could ever hope to regain."
The problem was not Symbian. As everyone else, you are confusing the core OS with the GUI. They were completely separate. The Symbian OS was the most efficient and most developed phone OS bar none. The battery life was phenomenal. My old E71 used to run for over a week with normal use.
My wife has it now and I was amazed when we came back from a two week holiday and she finally asked where the charger was. After 18 months with a HTC Desire HD, I had forgotten just how good the Symbian based phones were.
The GUI side, bolted on by Nokia, was a total bastardised mess. Then they did the usual Nokia thing of panicking, buying someone out to try to fix their woes (QT) and then dithering for 2 years without delivering anything.
Nokia constantly flail about trying to plug the gaps and are totally incapable of actually sitting down and developing a potent deliverable strategy and then sticking to it.
Isn't that what grandpa used?
I am more likely to consider buying a one of Nokia's offerings than anything from Apple.
But I am almost certain to replace my current Android with another Android. Sorry about than Nokia!
Oh dear, never mind
When you grow up you will choose on merit instead of fashionable, ignorant anti-fashion.
This is called the Coué method
"Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better."
Don't you mean
"bitter and butter" ?
[With apologies to the funny one of the two Ronnies]
What do mean "funny one"?!?
They were both hilarious in their own fashions!
Me thinks another grave miss on market perception from the Espoonians. Maybe they should go spend some time in a place that has more daylight.
"The Youth of Today" is perhaps being used in the singular, i.e. the one sitting alone in the corner.
"Everyone has the iPhone". "Also," he added, "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security." I'm not surprised anymore about Nokia's fall after reading this nonsense. Their management truly cannot make up their mind on simplest matters.
Back in 2007
Nokia execs didn't take iphone serious since it didn't have keyboard.I remember saying nothing good can come from both Nokia and Microsoft unless they change their manager culture.
And the Windows brand is the first name that comes to mind when "security" is mentioned.
I wonder why?
Doesn't stop them being right, though.
There's nothing wrong with his analysis: iPhone's prestige value is dropping away, and it is becoming something of a uniform among the white middle classes. Both factors will push the trend-setters towards something new.
Android is ignoring the bulk of the market. If you're reading a tech website, you may not notice this, but most people don't care about "openness" or how easy something is to root. they'd prefer something they DON'T have to dick with, and this is what only Apple offer right now in smartphones (Nokia do this quite well in voice phones, and that's how they conquered that market).
Whether the Lumia 800 is that "something new" is another matter, but as an object, it's certainly more attractive than any other competitor to the iPhone, and that's the first hurdle to get over: make the potential customer pick it up.
what a load
As an Android phone owner I can tell you that you most certainty do not have to "dick with" anything on an Andoid phone. Downstairs from me is a woman who wanted my advice on a tablet. I helped her pick out a Samsung Galaxy tab and then offered to show her how to use it. Turns out she never took me up on the offer because she mastered it on her own. She is not a techie and all she wanted was GPS and the ability to browse websites and check her email and she likes her Android device because it is easy.
I, on the other hand, have rooted my company assigned Galaxy tab and replaced the OS on my HTC but I love doing that sort of thing. My point is that just because you can doesn't mean that you have to.
You mean trend setters who aren't white, affluent and middle class?
Good luck with that.
Although to be fair, China is likely to sprout an Apple-sized globo-corp of its own - or even a few - in the next decade or two.
Kudos to Nokia for getting a nice looking WinSlab out the door more quickly than anyone expected.
But - so what?
Anyone who wants to take on the iPhone has to understand that making and selling handsets is nowhere near enough. Apple has an advantage because its unified brand includes laptops, desktops, music, media and app distribution, and Cool Advertising [tm.]
Nokia are doing well on the Jobsian idea of making tech that's shiny, brightly coloured and easy to use. But they still haven't managed to get the unified brand thing to work for them.
Nokia's music and media service wasn't, the app store didn't - etc.
If Elop tried to get Nokia into the designer laptop space and followed it up with some clever media licensing - i.e. not just a bloody radio - that might have some interestingosity.
But Nokia always fail when they try this stuff. (And Microsoft aren't any better at it.)
"Android is ignoring the bulk of the market. "
I guess that's why it only has 53% of the smarphone market
@Doesn't stop them being right, though.
The youth of today couldn't give a f...ig about lack of security. The first thing they do is download several dodgy messengers or facebook/twitter apps to test them out and see if they can be the first to find a better whatever-it-is now and in this sense Android suits them perfectly.
Everyone forced to use same metro hub UI and official apps is not going to be hip and trendy wit' teh yout.
I usually have to get rid of an assortment of toolbars and spy/adware on my nice's computer on a twice-monthly basis, every time I give her the lecture about where to get software from, how to tell what's good and what's dodgy, and unclicking everything in the installer and every time it falls on deaf ears.
Meanwhile I'm peering at the Nokia Store and umming and ahhing over whether I should download the Bloomburg feed app and wondering why couldn't they have done it over the web.
"Turns out she never took me up on the offer because she mastered it on her own. "
Might be that Scary Geek Syndrome that all of us have unknowingly (or cluelessly) caused at one time or another.
You do if your mobile operator has been dicking with it for you. Which is pretty common when you get a contract phone.
It wasn't just Nokia, it was Microsoft and even RIM didn't seem concerned. Yet both now have single figure (or barely double figure in the case of RIM) marketshare.
'I guess that's why it only has 53% of the smarphone market' ... for now.
The market Android is targetting is a market of volatile ppl whom change phones like they switch underwear. In the case of Android phones you mostly have to because after a few months most o/t models don't get official upgrades anyway. So these consumers don't have any brand or OS-loyalty. Don't expect Android to reign forever. As soon as THAT 'market' realise that every jack-shit has an Android phone they'll start abandoning them by the footload.
It happened with the Blackberrys whom became the not-cool-toy overnight.
All these corps target the wrong audience but since most of these corps are nowadays ran by jerks anyway I couldn't care less.
..the first time around?
err, wasnt this the originalproblem for them? EVERYONE had Nokias - so people started to buy things that were different...or VERY different. iPhone, Blackberry or Android. People started to buy Android because everyone and their dog had an iPhone....
He might have a point...
My nephew (who's a 'yoof'), asked me the other day what all this "WinPho shit" was all about. He's been through iPhone/BB and has seen some ad's about that "Blue Nokia". Gave him a quick overview, mentioned about XBox live & FB/Twitter/People hub etc.. Say's he now wants want one.
Interesting that he latched on to 'Nokia Phone' first rather than Microsoft/Windows Phone. I guess even though Nokia has had it rough the last few years, you can't ignore the brand power the 'Nokia' name/image. Will be interesting to see what happens 6/9 months from now.
"Will be interesting to see what happens 6/9 months from now."
Your nephew will have dropped it for the new shiny. Today's "yoof" have even less staying power than we did at his approximate age, and I'm sure we got accused of the same thing.
why you didn't talk him out of buying the Lumia 800 when it doesn't have a front facing camera and can't make video calls with the latest software upgrades (Tango?) that will bring video calling.
No doubt he'll be on a 24-month deal, so will be belly aching for a good 18 months, along with all the other mugs who were told the Lumia 800 was the "best Windows Phone ever" despite all the previous devices from other manufacturers having front facing cameras.
Yoof of too day
No staying power that's the problem,
[Wanders off aimlessly, muttering something about four Yorkshire men and how no one believes him any more]
Really? No front-facing camera is a big deal?
I don't know anyone of any age who has ever made a video call other than to try it out as a novelty when first getting the phone.
All I can think is that you must work in marketing, because they are the only people who seem to give a sh*t about front-facing cameras.
@John G Imrie
Pst! Don't forget to yell "Get the hell off my lawn!"
I make video calls all the time
with friends and family at home and abroad. Facetime on iOS is hugely popular, all it needs is an iPod. I personally use Skype for video calls on a whole range of other non-iOS devices. Maybe you don't make video calls, but for other people it's becoming a much more viable alternative now that smartphone manufacturers have simplified the solution and made it reliable, even enjoyable.
The omission of a front facing camera will come to bite those Nokia customers in the arse once Microsoft get around to supporting video calls in their next software update - they'll be wondering "what about me?" and regretting their decision to buy early hardware that lacks features.
And I've been making video calls on my various Nokias since about 2006.
But wait... that was before Apple 'invented' video calls...
Totally agree, however while Apple didn't invent video calls
What Apple did do was make video calling popular, reliable and usable - things that Nokia never achieved (or - most likely - even attempted).
You could say Apple "re-invented" video calls, which would be closer to the truth.
Video calls on Nokia devices, while possible for many years, was always blighted by low quality cameras (and thus video quality), it didn't always work (even between two Nokia devices) and when it did work you quickly realised it was actually a bit shit (thanks to the aforementioned quality issues, plus WiFi and all-inclusive data plans not being so widespread, not that video calls work terribly well over 3G even to this day).
Apple changed all of this (with the exception of dodgy 3G call quality).
Note I'm not an Apple fan, in fact I won't have one in my house - just acknowledging how Nokia monumentally failed and Apple succeeded where video calling is concerned.
Yeah, so much stuff is like so yesterday
"What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with oxygen. Everyone has the oxygen in the air, we are going to give them hydrogen cyanide instead, this will be really cool for several seconds until they realise why oxygen is so popular..."
Not that I am suggesting that Windows Mobile=Toxic of course.
@ The Cube
It's not Windows Mobile but Windows Phone 7. WM a completely different OS.
Windows Mobile at least had multitasking, lots and lost of apps including UI-enhancements (remember HTC's TouchFlo3D?), was fully compatible with outlook (you know, part of that office-stuff M$ had us swallow for the past decade), could connect to all wifi networks including those with hidden SSID's, Some WM phones could even record phone-calls. Oh...and there were some cool navigation programs for it that could import your contacts-addresses as POI...
But hey. Today all that matters is Xbox-live, FB, twitter and playing music (preferably bought through some online store).
It's unfortunate that a small businessman like me still requires a good navigationtool, has a few hundreds address collected in outlook (the past few years), needs the benefit of a call-recording tool to collect proof against abusive customers or to collect name ad address when driving from one client to another. And no I can't allow my sensible client to swim around in some cloud (client confidentiallity). Oh... I mustn't forget that we also make PHONECALLS (aswell to clients as to contractors and suppliers)!
Perhaps they think about us when we're all extinct and everybody is standing at the unemployement agency tweeting about.
Windows Mobile is also the worst phonecall maker I know
I've found it to be truly horrible at the business of phonecall making, yet pretty good at the email, and other 'smart' side of things.
Not tried WP7, and won't because of my experience of WM6.x and other Windows CE-based devices (some of them came with a thingy for pressing the rest button. How confident is that!)
My wife has a pretty cheap Android (Acer Liquid Express), and she seems quite happy using it - didn't ask me much, she mostly just tells me to stop playing with her phone and to give it back...
It's really rather good - only thing she's complained about is the battery life because her previous was a classic Nokia, bck when phones had over a week of battery...
MS have previously said that WM6.x is stll around for 'business customers', yet there are no new devices running it, and very few older devices still in production so that's clearly incorrect.
WP7 drops the ball anyway for all the reasons you gave, so my next business phone is almost certainly going to be an Android.
Nokia heading for the Danger zone
Jaded yoof? They don't have iFruity things, they have BlackFruity things. 'Sides, nokia's newfound bedmate bought something promising targeted right at that very demographic then kilt it stone dead through the exact same infighting that saw nokia forced to take a rather high jump off assorted burning platforms. They learned to swim in the meantime then?
My exact thought
BlackFruity things, damn cheap ones and with a free messaging service to boot.
That is not a market which can be taken over easily with a good margin.
As far as real "bored with iPhone fashionistas" (quotes intended) when they are done with iPhone they will start with iPhone accessories like the iPhone integrated BMW, Pioneer AppRadio and all the other similar stuff. None of that dances to tunes from the GooglePlex or Redmond. World has changed. The people who _HAVE_ spending power no longer want just a phone. They want to take that phone and it to plug into their car, music system, house, etc - anything up to and including washing the dishes. That is an area where MSFT has got about zero attention from manufacturers and developers... Unless you want a Fiat with Blue and Me which speaks _VOLUMES_ about your disposable income :) Nokia has even less leverage there than Microsoft.
This is just a continuation from February. Probably a good idea in some parallel universe. In this one not so much.
Blackberry's new core market?
Could it be that teens are becoming the Blackberry's new core market? I've been seeing more and more teens carrying Blackberries, usually the lower end curve models with the occasional bold or torch. Perhaps they are tired of fumbling through their 2000+/month text messages with a touch screen and have realized a real keyboard is far better for such heavy use.
They use BBM instead of texts - it is usually flat priced.
You are indeed correct - the hoodie is the new BB core market and it is one market it will be able to rely on long after everyone else has switched to a touchscreen slab of some description.
"Also," he added, "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security."
And he's backing those assertions up with what?
My guess would be
... he is referring to malware in the Android store.
Right now you can have their precious ui with 2 clicks at android market. Yes windows phone 7 ux (not just ui). No hacks or modification. System has support for it.
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- Episode 4 BOFH: Oh DO tell us what you think. *CLICK*