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back to article Nokia is past its best-by date, warns analyst

Nokia shareholders hoping for the golden days to return are waiting in vain, a gloomy prognosis from analyst research from Standard & Poor's concludes. ‘Nokia glory days are unlikely to return,’ say the analysts. The reason? Twofold, really. One is that S&P think Nokia can’t differentiate itself from rivals sufficiently; all …

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Joke

Whut?

Nokia's still around?!

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Anonymous Coward

Whether Windows Phone is good, bad or indifferent...

... isn't the issue. The issue is that Nokia cannot hope to compete on the same terms as the Chinese OEMs. It's a Windows Phone and nobody cares what the hardware is - least of all Microsoft.

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Indeed. They tried desperately hard to suggest Nokia would have some special advantage over other WP7 licensees (while Microsoft simultaneously tried not to spook them).

Now they've launched it's hard to see any insider advantage in the product, just another WP7 phone with the same software stack, the same battery life, the same everything. Mostly just a different casing you love or loath and a logo few still respect. Even the Nokia map app that was supposed to bring them huge licence fees is never even commented on!

Meanwhile all the others can throw out essentially the same phone in a different case and see how it sells, with Android and proprietary OS builds to fall back on. Even the ones doing 'contractual obligation' releases to keep the Microsoft attack dogs at bay aren't dependent on take up.

Nokia has no independent future.

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Headmaster

On top of that Lenovo confirmed LePhone running WP7.5 in the second half of 2012...

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Holmes

And this is news to us how?

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To regular readers of El Reg, this isn't really a big surprise...

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Coat

This just in

Micheal Dell, when asked, said that if he were made CEO of Nokia, he'd shut it down and pay the money to the shareholders.

Mine's the one with the System 7 floppies in the pocket.

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Anonymous Coward

Shills

I wonder who they are funed by?

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Anonymous Coward

Well well, I almost agree with S&P

I saw this on the wall when the new strategy was announced, and while it's laudable to exist at all after the management mess-ups that have gone on, Nokia is no longer a company software people should be looking to work for. The specific target of 15% looks optimistic to me, but we'll see in time I guess.

I don't work there any more. As far as I'm concerned phones have become rather old hat nowadays. The pioneering is all done & increments are the order of the day. When you have multi-core multi-GHz hardware, where is the challenge? Any old shit works sufficiently quickly*. People interested in doing something really new should be looking elsewhere.

* Android

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WTF?

Really?

Erm. Nokia have stated that just one of their new models, the Lumia 800, has sold faster than any of their previous models. The Lumia 800 has been named "What Mobile?" Mobile phone of the year 2011. Windows Phone has been named Mobile Operating System of the Year 2011 by "Know Your Mobile". Nokia's marketing push has been amazing - have a look at the Deadmau5 gig at the Millbank tower on Youtube - they used the entire skyscraper as a giant video screen and it's awesome.

To say Nokia are dead is to completely ignore all the evidence to the contrary. Wait for the official sales figures, then eat crow.

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2 things

1. Is there anyone sad enough to actually read "What Mobile"?

2. Why would one want to eat a Crow?

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Facepalm

Yes, really

I'd guess (and no, I'm not going to rtfa) that they said it sold faster than any of their previous *smartphone* models, which frankly wouldn't be too difficult now, would it?

And as for 'Know your Mobile', part of Dennis publishing who do about ten PC magazines, want to guess where most of their ad revenue comes from?

All the videos on skyscrapers in the world won't save Nokia from the Chinese copies.

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Anonymous Coward

'To say Nokia are dead is to completely ignore all the evidence to the contrary.'

So what *is* that smell, then?

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Anonymous Coward

The smell is ...

... rotting piles of cash.

They currently survive on fermenting what's still there.

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Anonymous Coward

Arn't S&P the people who said the sub-prime mortages were AAA rated? They must know what they are talking about?

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Silver badge

Daft thing is ...

I've never found a better telephone than my decade-old Nokia ...

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Dumb phones

Nokia still produce some great dumb phones for the really basic features. However, in the smartphone area, they just can't compete and this is what the article mainly focuses on. I'm pretty sure Nokia will still remain to have a large percentage of the dumb phone mobile market share for quite a while.

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@technohead95

Not a "dumb phone", rather a "telephone".

It can place & receive calls, even in Sonoma Vally's so-called "dead zones". Unlike your so-called "smart phone".

Honestly, what good is a telephone that can't place a call?

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This post has been deleted by its author

Can't compete?

The 18 month-old N8 still blows away both Android and iPhone in terms of features.

It's nowhere near as *slick* as iPhone though (ooooohh! shiny, smooth...) which is what seems to make people think it's inferior. Although IMHO, the latest N8 UI is no worse than Android's clunky mess.

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Standard and Poor

The guys who judged the US sub-prime lending as AAA, and then watched the world go to hell in a handbag as debt defaults spiralled.

The guys who failed to notice the credit crunch on the horizon - which even someone as bewildered as Vince Cable saw months earlier...

Does anyone take anything they now say seriously?

And if so, why?

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@EddieD I'm afraid they do. Ever heard about the same mistake being made twice? it's not like mankind has evolved in any way over time. Well that's just what the scientist say...

I am the owner of an iPhone and it's a nice phone. I've been an iPhone user almost since it came out, but I am a bit bored with it now and after having tried the new Nokia Lumia 800 I am really considering a change. I really like it and I would recommend others to just have a look feel.

My initial thought was actually to try out Android, but I can't find one phone with a nice design and I really don't like the user interface. And after having a lot of friends which has had problems with stutter, volume, shutdown, etc. I'm going to stay away. A lot are happy with Android and I'm happy on their behalf.

Actually I would recommend this article, which explains some of my points:

Why I don't want an iPhone any more

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/why-i-dont-want-an-iphone-any-more-50006257/

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FAIL

Microsoft-lover...

The link is to a journo. When will people realise that journos get paid to say stuff & therefore their words are financed rhetoric & not worth a scrap...

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@EddieD I'm afraid they do. Ever heard about the same mistake being made twice? it's not like mankind has evolved in any way over time. Well that's just what the scientist say...

I am the owner of an iPhone and it's a nice phone. I've had different versions almost since it came out, but I am a bit bored with it now and after having tried the new Nokia Lumia 800 I am really considering a change. I really like it and I would recommend others to have a look feel.

My initial thought was actually to try out Android, but I can't find one phone with a nice design and I really don't like the user interface. And after having a lot of friends which has had problems with stutter, volume, shutdown, etc. I'm going to stay away. A lot are happy with Android and I'm happy on their behalf.

Actually I would recommend this article, which explains some of my points:

Why I don't want an iPhone any more

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/why-i-dont-want-an-iphone-any-more-50006257/

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Wot?

With reference to the linked article.

Although I agree the iPhone is a bit boring now and has too restrictive walled garden, how is the Windows Phone different? Don't you need Zune installed on your Windows PC instead of iTunes?

These SmartPhones are similar performance to a Netbook: ~1GHz, 1GB RAM, 16GB SSD/flash, 800x480 screen, 3.9" touch pad... Why would you ever need to connect to a PC?

There does not currently seem to be any SmartPhones suitable for the discerning technical user, readily available. The European phone OS (Symbian, etc.) has been out marketed by the Yanks, unless you consider Linux a Finnish OS.

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former Microserf and now CEO of Nokia said it was why they skipped Android

He said that using Android on Nokia devices would just make them another in a crowd. None in the press picked up on this that Microsoft tightly controls the hardware and the software so it's even worst with Microsoft. Except Google wouldn't drop a billion+ dollars into Nokia's pockets.

But the key to tell you where Elop was coming from was when he said Google was their enemy. That was a pure 100% Microserf-ism so the clue wagon was out there and in plain sight.

As others stated here, none of this is news to those how read The Reg regularly and have "a clue".

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Linux

Muck-raking-soft is the problem...

Most people won't buy an MS phone because it is MS & nobody trusts MS anymore. I don't even think those who sell MS stuff feel safe with them. MS have proven themselves to be scum & with Nokia joining up makes them look bad as well. What Nokia really needs to do is develop more MeeGo phones. There are many Android users who don't want to be trapped by Google but Google is better than Apple or Microsoft. Blackberry isn't much better than the others & if they had the chance would take the poisonous mantle that now belongs with Apple.

Go Nokia, with MeeGo. The others can hang...

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FAIL

No one wants Windows Phone 7

Microsoft had a huge opportunity when they had a massive market share with their Windows Mobile OS. They sat on their asses with very little innovation. Along comes some strong competition (namely iOS and Android) and suddenly they realise they need to up their game. While WP7 would have been awesome in the days of Windows Mobile OS, it's too little, too late.

Nokia have made a huge mistake by partnering with Microsoft. I can't believe how many mistakes they have made even prior to this with Symbian, Maemo, MeeGo etc. It's a real shame as Nokia do tend to have some great hardware designs (not all their designs are great but most are). However, siding with WP7 will be their downfall.

The only way they can recover in the smartphone marketshare now is to side with Android. God knows if this is even possible following the contracts they've signed with Microsoft.

Nokia's smartphone area is a sinking ship. Microsoft's Windows Phone is a sinking ship. Tie one sinking ship to another and guess what?? They still sink!!!!

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