back to article Nokia loses sales lure as Maps and Music apps cracked

If Nokia is banking on its Music and Maps software will give it an edge over other Phone 7 handsets, it’s in trouble – the copy protection behind the code has been cracked. Handsets such as the new Lumia 800 are being billed as the only way to access Nokia’s extensive maps database or music playing system. However, both have now …

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Flame

You silly bastard

What was the previous reason for not buying Finnish.

Finnish is more than Nokia. So stop buying Angry Birds because of Nokia, you stupid bastard.

I will stop buying Nokia only because of Microsoft unless they continue developing the N9

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I stopped buying Nokia...

...after the mistake that was the N97.

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Nokia?

It's a Windows Phone. Nobody cares.

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I really don’t think having the apps hacked is going to have much effect on sales. Only Geeks like me and you would care for this. Put it this way can i see my mum installing chevron and side loading a xap file onto her phone? Then there is the fact that almost all people interested in hacking there phones would buy into android and the small number left ie the guys that found this out would more likely go for devices like the htc titan or Samsung focus s. The Lumia's main market is the rest of us the mass market and trust me when i say that they will not leave in droves to try hacking a device cos they read some ware they don’t need a nokia. To put their level of phone us into perspective 4 people in our finance department bought a Samsung galaxy s2 because one of our developers told them it was the best phone ever. Since then i have heard things like "oh i didn’t know it had a market place thats cool" and "wow, now i can see my emails thanks for setting that up" Also along with the typical android complaint from novice users of "my battery dies after half a day is it broken". Most of these issues won’t be solved buying a windows phone bar maybe the battery but its a lot easier to understand ie not 3 icons for different ways to get to the market (wtf Samsung) plus a design that will appeal

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@ lumpaywk

"Put it this way can i see my mum installing chevron and side loading a xap file onto her phone?"

Your mum won't do it. But YOU (or any other tech savvy member of her family) would do it for her instead. Don't be so naive into thinking that because it's 'too difficult for joe average' that joe average won't do it. Look at how easy it has become to 'root' iPhones (or Android or Symbian phones) these days. While the market for iPhone is EXACTLY that same joe average that supposedly won't tamper with their devices!

"Most of these issues won’t be solved buying a windows phone"

Exactly the reason NOT to buy a Windows phone 7 phone in the first place (whether it has an LG, Samsung, HTC or Nokia logo on front). Why buy a same phone as anyone else with the same abysmal battery-life, the same ridicule facebook/twitter-integration, the same crippled agenda and same lack of features that current Symbian-users, in the case of Nokia customers, take for granted.

I find it NORMAL for my phone to last 2 days, I take it for granted that I discretely sync my PRIVATE contacts from my PC with the supplied USB-cable (been doing this for 10 years why should I change my habits?).

I take it for granted that my phone records phonecalls while I'm driving (actually standing in traffic jam but still prohibited from using a cellphone). I've been doing it since I got my SE K750i, Omnia SGH-900 and Acer Neotouch especially since traffic problems become much worse over the last years. Finally I have a phone that can do this AUTOMATICALLY without me pressing any button at all... even when I'm using (as the law dictates) a head/handsfree-set in my car.

I find it normal that the adresses from my contacts and AGENDA can be utilized by the inbuild proper turn-by-turn navigation software. Withouth importing them from one into the other.

I only buy tools when they conform to my needs. And as long as the new-kids-on-the-block DON'T adhere to MY needs they won't come in! It doesn't matter whether it has a Samsung, Apple or a Nokia logo on the front. It doesn't matter whether they run iOS, Android, WP7, Bada or Symbian for that matter. Fullfill to MY needs and I'll be your customer otherwise I won't! Period! I this case the prime reason to choose a Nokia WP7 phone just got debunked!

Nokia's naivity into thinking they gotten the chicken with the golden eggs (microsoft), while everybody else thinks this chicken is a turkey, got them into a bigger mess than they're already in. Congrats Nokia... job well done. The phones barely left the factory floor and they're already completely ridiculed!

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Linux

Not to worry

The ever-so-brilliant CEO Stephen Elop stated that the success of any WP7 OEM, be it HTC or Samsung or whatever, is good for Nokia. As it clearly doesn't matter to him if no-one buys Nokia phones, don't see why it should matter to anyone else either. Except maybe the few stockholders left, and if they care, then just get rid of Elop and WP -- problem solved.

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choice

Trying to drive hardware sales with exclusive software and content seems to be a short-lived endeavor. Somebody will break or copy the software in due time. See Mac versus PC, iphone versus Android, ...

If they want to sell hardware, they should focus on hardware. If they are better in software, they should offer their app for all platforms. Everything else looks like a good attempt in shooting their own foot.

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Nokia

I worked for Nokia in the mid 90s, visiting Finland many times. It was a well run company, and the Finns were for the most part pleasant and effective workers. Good at management and good at software. Towards the end of that period, our Finnish manager in the UK, liked by one and all, moved back to Helsinki and a British guy was promoted to replace him. Disaster.

The British guy was a traditional British manager in the worst sense. ie. he thought it was the army and he was our seargant. His spoken English wasn't as good as the Finnish manager's, he acted like a buffoon and p*ssed off everyone by and by.

@Lars: the author says "...buy Finnish..." becuase Nokia is the only well known mobile equipment manufacturer in Finland. He was obviously not attacking Finland generally.

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Windows

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU LOUDER!

I moved to Finland, simply because of the Finnish work ethic/management, etc. British management is seriously primitive by comparison.

I never hear the word "Hopefully" here (toivottavasti). If a Finn says it'll be done, it is.

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Anonymous Coward

Good advert this

I hadn't realised Nokia's maps and music apps were good as to be worth stealing.

If they are that nifty it might be worth getting a phone with them pre-installed over one that doesn't.

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Gimp

Nokia Maps is sweet.

I have it on my N8 and free global offline maps (or streamed when not preloaded), voice guidance and live traffic updates is fantastic. However as commented by someone else they can't rely on exclusive apps that can be cracked. They really need to get a N8 Rivalling Camera with Xenon flash for their unique SP.

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It is worth it..

The latest S60 phones are pretty good and have maps. Not sure about the music though.

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Anonymous Coward

USP

Nokia's winning point for me to date has been battery life - my E71 can do a week on a single charge and I currently use that for calls / texts with a cheap Android (ZTE Blade) for web browsing / apps.

If Nokia could somehow get me good battery life with all the features I'd be right on it (and the OS would not matter very much).

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@ Tegne

I agree with you on your maps comment.

As for that last line. Why make it complicated. Just GET THAT DAMN N9 IN THE BLOODY SHOPS!!!!!

I'm SICK of seeing the N9 advertised on their homepage and not being able to get it!

just see:

http://www.nokia.be/ontdek-alle-toestellen/alle-toestellen/nokia-n9?intc=ncomprod-fw-ilc-ftr-bedeeplinks_0x0-n9-nokiacom-be-nl-1todtmt3263aa

In fact they recently even removed the availability-page while the front page STILL show a big animation with video about the N9!

Does anyone from Nokia even read these pages! Don;t they realise that are deliberately destroying their own market. I want that N9 NOT that stupid Lumia!

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Windows

Maps? You're having a giraffe!!!

Today, Father's day in Finland, I took a taxi to see my son, and have coffe/cake with his mum (my ex G/F)

I decided to walk home - it's only about 6Km. About a couple of hours.

Somehow, in the dark, made a wrong turning. No probs, got my N8, with Ovi maps.

No matter what I did, bloody thing wouldn't show me where I was. (Basic function, I'd have thought). Finally, when it got a GPS signal - my hands were freezing by this time), the compass pointed that I was going North. I was actually going West. It kept directing me to walk over a lake. Jesus Christ, I'm not!!

Finally stumbled across a drunk who could speak English-ish, and directed me to a bar, where I could warm my hands, and call for a taxi.

Camera's great. Shame about the rest.

I could strangle Elop.

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Bronze badge
WTF?

Platform jump so easy?

If the original apps are WP7 code, how have they been ported to Android? Genuinely curious about this.

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They have not been ported to Android just over non nokia wp7 handsets. Not that it matters really the phones will sell like hot cakes and it was going to be sold in the market after the nokia launch anyway. Most people will not want to hack a device and illegally port an app just a few techies like us we need to stop thinking the rest of the world thinks like we do.

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HTC make Windows Phones too. HTC != Android, they make phones for multiple platforms.

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@Giles Jones

Dang, I really did read "HTC" and it arrived in my brain as "Android" (despite me being aware that they also did WinPhos). How embarrassing, and how telling. Please don't tell Ballmer, I forgot the chair-proof suit today!

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FAIL

no news

El Reg please, focus on something worthwhile. Making news out of the fact that Nokia apps can be hacked is like telling everyone "DRM does not work". We all know it!

And do you really think this is going to make a dent in Nokias revenues? Is your reasoning along the lines "oiks aren't going to buy these new ugly Nokias anymore because they can have ugly Samsung or HTC instead" ? From what I've heard these new Nokias are apparently best looking Windows phones around and I very much doubt general population has the skills and determination to install hacked apps on 3rd party handsets. So no, this is not going to cost Nokia a penny.

More likely add to bottom line, thanks to nice free advertising. Apparently someone likes Nokias apps enough to hack them!

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Anonymous Coward

This is a tech site, not the real world...

... remember 90%+ of the population wouldn't either know how, have the the ability to learn how or even want to jailbreak their phone and install custom software.

Most people just want something that works, these people account for the lion's share of sales, profits and general buzz, and probably includes nearly all phone shop employees who in my experience are way to daft to manage a jailbreak.

Nokia haven't lost any sales lure, they've just been circumvented for a niche market of nerds.

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Anonymous Coward

@ This is a tech site, not the real world...

The title of this article cleary says: "Nokia loses sales lure as Maps and Music apps cracked"

So thinking that this cracking won't have any effect on sales is very naive. Have you forgotten about the iPhone 2G (the first iPhone only to be sold in US because of AT&T's tie-in)? Or have you forgotten how easy it has become to "root" many Android devices? It might be difficult today (the bloody machines aren't even in the shops yet) but tomorrow some smart cracker hacks together an app to 'install' Nokia Maps on your Wp7 phone... ANY WP7 phone.

These things don't take long (as is proven here)!

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I suppose you can hack HTC's Sense onto a Nokia

Yet nobody's decided that it's a disaster for HTC.

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omg no windows phone is NOT android jeez you could hack the htc app accross but who wants that its worse than dire.

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@ Dan 55

HTC Sense is an Android app not a WP7 app (as lumpaywk also tried to point out).

You can't simply run WP7-apps on Android (or Symbian for that matter). And as there isn't any HTC Sense on WP7 it won't be cracked to run on the Lumia either.

No doubt that SOON as HTC starts bringing out WP7-phones with HTC-exclusive programs too, these WILL get hacked and made to run on other WP7-devices as well. Just look at XDA to see on how many non-HTC devices Touchflo3D (the former iteration of Sense) runs on. In fact I had a Samsung SGH-i900 with a TouchFlo3D-integrated-rom at one time.

Also as lumpaywk tried to point out. Sense is 'not very good' :-)

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FAIL

See icon

There's a version of HTC Sense for WP7, albeit more limited than its Android counterpart.

So that's four fails for four downvotes and two more for the comment. I expect better from Reg commentards.

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RE: See icon

Dan 55: I'm aware o/t HTC Hub on HTC Devices, The fact that's been raised here is that these suposedly "exclusive" apps don't stay exclusive for long.

In fact on XDA itself are members whom have extracted HTC/LG apps and tried to run these on non-HTC/LG devices. Some of these apps work without hacking, cracking or patching others don't. It's clear that the Nokia apps are considered as more important (and therefore get cracked sooner).

HTC Hub isn't such a big deal since it doesn't add something significant to WP7 (as other pointed that out too). Unlike some of LG's apps for instance Or Nokia's apps, In fact Nokia Maps is currently the only decent navigation app on WP7.

The fact of the matter is that these specific Nokia apps which would differentiate a Nokia WP7 from an LG, Samsung or HTC, have been hacked before the devices are even in the shops. And while it's quite difficult to get them installed on non-Nokia devices now. We all know that it won't be long before some smart guy cobbles together an app to get them installed easily. This will inevitably cost Nokia sales. That's what Mr. Thomson pointed out.

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@Manu T:

Indeed. But it's barely been launched, it's currently a complicated affair to hack Maps onto other WP7 devices as you said, and no doubt DRM can be included in a mandatory Maps update if Nokia deem it necessary (it's quite easy to see how many non-Nokia IMEIs are logging into the maps server or using the Maps Loader program).

I get the feeling that in some sections of the tech press Nokia is like BSD, they're very eager to pronounce it dead.

Protecting manufacturers' unique selling points on WP7 is something that Microsoft will have to address and it's not something which concerns only Nokia, otherwise they're going to have all mobile manufacturers throwing chairs at Balmer.

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Anonymous Coward

Point-missers

The significance of this is that Nokia, having signed up to Microsoft's agenda, has positioned various assets as exclusives to the Windows Phone platform (with perhaps a nod to the S40 stuff in Nokia's portfolio). Although people would need good lawyers to offer access to Nokia's services as some kind of business plan, any indication that Nokia could be doing reasonable business offering services more widely is yet another hole in Elop's armour.

Certainly, services can make a platform desirable - Google seem to have propped up the desirability of Apple's offerings over the years, regardless of whether you like Apple's shiny or not - but there's a certain amount of doubt that anyone could tie services to hardware and expect punters to buy into it all. Apple hasn't been able to do this yet, Google isn't trying to do it, and with Google as the competition, it would be difficult for anyone else to manage it.

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From a lot of the comments here i do wander if anyone who reads the register actually knows anything about phones at all.

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@ lumpaywk

Not only about phones.

Also not about 'market' and 'people' in general.

The point here is that the suposedly exclusive apps that should 'lure' ppl into buying a Nokia WP7 handset over e.g. an HTC model are hacked. And that this (eventually) will be bad for sales of Nokia's devices. The irony of all this is, is that the devices aren't even in the shops?!?!?!

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