back to article Virgin Media, TalkTalk snub kind offer to block Newzbin2

The Motion Picture Association (MPA) has asked two other UK internet service providers (ISPs) to consent to a court order that would force them to block their customers' access to a copyright-infringing website. The MPA previously won a High Court ruling against BT forcing it to "block or attempt to block" access to the Newzbin2 …

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WTF?

Wonder why...

... they need to develop software?

According to http://revk.www.me.uk/2011/11/secret-to-accessing-newzbin2-from-bt.html no software is required.

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Silver badge
FAIL

Stupid courts

This whole sorry tale is stupid. This particular website is doing nothing that you can't achieve though a quick Google search and yet they are being singled out. Surely, if indexing illegal content is illegal in itself, then Google is also in violation? The court order is also pointless in that the wording of the court order will become very important. If they name a specific website, just change the name. If a specific IP, just change that etc.etc. Until the MPA finally come to their senses and realise it's their previous activities and business model that's wrong, they will never sort this out. Thisis just causing cost and irritating people for no benefit, short or long term.

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Anonymous Coward

How about:

I hear crimes are committed in say, Manchester.

Solution? remove all the signs to Manchester. Then no crimes can be committed.

:-)

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Thumb Down

Silly BT

"The complex issues involved have been considered already in the BT case and the future process for obtaining blocking orders, in clear cut cases at least, can only get quicker and less expensive"

Not only have you allowed the censors onto your own network, you've made it easier for them to get at others' networks. Why be so stupid?

Also, we really need to address the silly law against people sharing things that they own.

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Bronze badge
FAIL

Maybe BT are smarter than you think?

BT have complied with the court order in such a half-hearted way as to not really block newzbin at all. I notice this morning that newzbin have cunningly changed their IP address which has stopped the block working. Looks to me like BT are trying to demonstrate how ineffective this type of court order is.

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FAIL

Quick, someone ban Royal Mail

Their services are being used to pass around illegal drugs, weapons, child pornography!! Ban this sick filth NOW! Won't someone think of the children??

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Anonymous Coward

Have they?

"BT has used its 'Cleanfeed' filtering system to block the Newzbin2 site"

Wonder why I can still access it using my BT Broadband account then (just by going to the site and not using any workarounds).

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Cleanfeed technology

"The ISP has mainly used its Cleanfeed technology to block access to websites featuring child abuse images."

its hardly sophisiticated technology they have simple changed the DNS records for the sites so they don't resolve, as many have pointed out if you put in the IP for newzbin2 in the address bar you can by pass the "cleanfeed technology"

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FAIL

So I guess Cleanfeed technology is also useless if people are using Google DNS services or OpenDNS

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Anonymous Coward

Clean feed doesn't rely on DNS hacks to make it work. Instead it publishes an alternative route to IP addresses that are hosting content for one or more of the blocked URLs. This alternative route is actually via a transparent, filtering proxy. Non port 80 requests are forwarded as normal, whilst port 80 requests go to the proxy which then selectively choses if the request should still be forwarded or not based on the full URL.

This design avoids a significant chunk of the collateral damage that might otherwise be caused by DNS hacks.

Source: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/cleanfeed.pdf

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Bronze badge

merry-go-round

I'm sure we will see a lot of the regular comments from the regular commenters and in the main they will be saying the same thing. The MPA is attempting something obvious for all the wrong reasons and will fail to achieve their objectives for even more obvious reasons.

It is almost irrelevant whether Newbinz2 are being bad boys or not because they can respond orders faster than the MPA and courts can enforce so the only effect is that the courts and ISPs become more and more casual about blocking/filtering content to the eventual detriment of everyone.

All the time that the 'genuine' product is either too expensive or not available in a suitable format then the grey areas will creep in to fill the void. The grey route cost/risks are relatively low (unless you feel like advertising to the world that you have a rip-off of every movie that has ever been made).

This means that people that really really have to have a copy of that movie (you know, the one that thingie was in where he/she saved the world while hanging from a trapeze singing 'our' song) to watch on their fondleslab while having a duvet day will take a chance. If they get away with it they may try for one or two more. If a large portion of the population is taking a chance on the grey zone then don't fix the symptoms fix the cause.

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Big Brother

so what *would* work

Agreed, dull old arguments rehearsed. So let's talk about something new.

Assuming there is a demand, what could you do to prevent "piracy?" The only thing I can think of is a strict national IP whitelist, with automatic strict disincentives for anyone accessing or allowing access to non-whitelisted destinations. A bit like China.

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Silver badge

Short Answer: Nothing. Longer answer: A different attitude.

Nothing will ever eliminate piracy 100% - not even a whitelist. But it can be greatly reduced

The correct solution requires a different attitude first by content owners. Make us not want to pirate. Provide a superior product than the pirates can offer and make us *want* to give our money.

As it stands in some creative sectors, particularly gaming, Pirates now offer a superior product: No DRM and no third party software required just to load the game post install.

I know Capitalism is getting a bad rap, but piracy is just Capitalism at work. A need of the market wasn't being met, so someone met it. It is perhaps one of lifes great Ironies that those who benefit the most from capitalism are trying to squash it.

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Demand will not go away. Much of this is done by da yout and they are money poor and time rich. And smart. And likely to get poorer. To incentivise them you'd have to offer all the music/tv/movies/porn/warez/games/ebooks they can consume for less than the price of a broadband connection.

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Thumb Up

^This^

Absolutely agree.

I do a lot of travel and after reluctantly accepting books are heavy and take up luggage space started to move to digital content on my fondleslab.

I've downloaded a number of comicbook torrents (that I already own in meatspace) to carry with me which are ok to read in ACV. The tempation is strong to to download other comics I don't own in meatspace. However I find comiXology to be a superior experience - especially the sliding panels - so much so that I've started purchasing in app. It's really convenient (also a little scary how convenient). I've even decided to convert to digital at the expense of my paperback collection of The Walking Dead.

tl;dr - comiXology is a good example of this.

Of course what I'm really waiting for now, is the for them to bundle digitial downloads with phyisical purchases - this, I think would be fair and useful.

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Anonymous Coward

on BT Broadband

www.newzbin.co.uk works too

85.112.165.75

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

It's interesting that they went for Newzbin first, which lets face it, as a service that requires a binaries newsgroup sub to launch (which most ISP no longer offer, so is a separate cost) is small-fry compared to Pirate Bay, the far more obvious target.

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Anonymous Coward

I wonder how well the record executives will sleep when paedophiles get access to children because cleanfeed is too busy blocking pirates (something it was never intended to block).

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Anonymous Coward

That's what I call a desperate argument.

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Waste of time. People will get around this just like they get around everything else.

Virgins just started traffic shaping Newsgroup access so that even if your on their 100 service, between around 5pm and midnight instead of taking less than 30 secs to download a 700MB file, it takes 5+ hours.

So people have started using VPN's to get around this

And that's apart from the fact that under current English law, if I download say a TV show from a newsgroup, I haven't even committed a criminal offence, just a civil one uf they use newsgroups, unlike using torrents.

The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended by the Copyright and Trade Marks (Offences and Enforcement) Act 2002, currently protects copyrighted materials. People who download copyrighted recordings without permission face civil actions. Downloading can also constitute a criminal offence if the downloader distributes the material.

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Anonymous Coward

"unlike using torrents"

I don't distribute torrents. You're assuming that I seed, which I don't.

Reprehensible as some may find leeching, I am not distributing anything.

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Go

You don't need to use a VPN, just use SSL. Virgin won't slow you don't until you hit their standard cap. In fact with most ISPs that apply shaping to non-standard traffic, just access Usenet through SSL on port 443 and you avoid the shaping.

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Anonymous Coward

@Deano2099

Because it's the thin end of the wedge...

I suspect very few people use it because these days you have to pay for a binary newsfeed.

However, now it's pretty much legally banned at BT, they're using the BT ruling to enforce the ban on other ISPs. Then they'll pick a slightly larger target, maybe go back to court with BT, but use the previous ruling to help the new case, then if they win, use the two rulings for force other ISPs to 'co-operate'. Then pick a slightly larger target, and go at BT again, by now there's a lot of precedent been set... A couple more rounds and TPB will be on the hit list...

Once that's down, here's a list of ALL the other search sites, could you just add those to Cleenfeed too? Many thanks...

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Anonymous Coward

All this effort

Bcause you freetards won't pay for your content...

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Holmes

Pay BT or blag your neighbour's WIFI?

I wonder how much BT (or Virgin Media or Talktalk) earns per month from providing its customers with a service they can get for free by simply parking outside a neighbour's unsecured WIFI with a laptop on their knees?

If you know, do please tell the witless morons controlling the entertainment industry. And if they are too stupid to register the significance of it you can give them this clue with my compliments: the customers think that the added-value service and convenience that BT provides are worth its charges.

There now, was that so difficult to grasp?

PS The copyright of this idea is mine and mine alone. Any attempt by anyone to use it in order to earn money for themselves, and many employees and peripherals and associated other businesses such as taxis, restaurants, clothes shops, motor manufacturers etc, not to mention artists, actors, writers and musicians, will be greeted with enthusiasm by myself and doubtless many others.

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