A Palestinian minister is blaming foreign hackers for taking out internet services and servers in the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinian communications minister Mashur Abu Daqqa blames the Israeli state for what is describes as a coordinated DDoS attack against core communication systems. “Since this morning all Palestinian IP …
Flamers at the ready
Regardless of which side of this argument you fall on there are some simple basic truths. There will be no peace until 3 things happen.
1. Palestinians unaminously cease all "military" actions.
2. The Israelis stop stealing land that the only claim they have to is written in a book about their particular sky fairy.
3. Both sides actually sit down and talk, reach an agreement and actually abide by it.
At the end of the day all that should be self evident. You only have to look at the history of the peace process in Northern Ireland to see that it works.
And AC for a change, this is one particular argument that no one ever seems to be able to react reasonably to.
RE: Flamers at the ready
The Fakeistinians have failed to meet their obligations under the Oslo Accord, failed to stop violence (the barrier stopped the bombers, not Fatah), have failed to punish terrorists that have launched attacks from the West Bank, and still do not recognise Israels right to exist (one of the preconditions of Oslo). The demand for a stop on settlement expansion is just Fatah's way of avoiding talks. No-one has asked Arabs in Israel to stop building anything as a precondition to talks. When Netanyahu and his predecessors offered talks, Fatah have refused them at every opportunity.
Meanwhile, the Obumbler administration and the EU throw more and more money at Fatah in an attempt to create a viable economy, in the hope that work will give the average West Banker a reason not to go suicide bombing. It's not surprising the Palis kept their banking system secure, but that's probably only so no-one finds out how much of those US dollars are being piped off into Fatah goons' accounts.
Why do the the Israelis hate the Palestinians so much? They've got as much right to live there (and get internet) as anyone else!
Could it maybe have something to do with the fact that the Arabs have been committing large-scale attacks on Jews at least since the end of World War I? And could it maybe have something to do with the fact that the only "solution" that the Arabs have ever devised for the problems in the Middle East call for the destruction (or, farcically, the "disestablishment") of Israel? And could it just possibly have something to do with the fact that Hamas is also quite vocal about its desire to destroy Israel? And wouldn't it seem maybe a bit logical that, if the Arabs want Israel to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist, that perhaps they themselves should recognize the right of Israel to exist?
And I guess that you are not asking why the Arabs hate Israel so much is that you don't think that it's important. Or you feel that it is justified. Would that guess be pretty nearly correct?
Why would you hate someone who launches rockets at you?
I can't understand this!
You have it backwards. It is rooted in Islam. In Islamic tradition, any land that was under muslim control is islamic land forever, and must be taken back if lost for any reason.
As a result, muslim children are taught in schools to hate jews, it is taught that their god Allah hates all jews and they should be killed unless they submit to Islamic rule.
Anytime you hear about Israel did this or that, remember the day Israel turned over 1000 prisoners and got 1 back.
Remember that all Israel conflcts, takes place in or right on the edge of Israel. But conflicts with Islam and others take place all over the world. East Timor, Indonesia, Georgia, Somolia, Chechnia, China, France, etc. etc.
How is it
That people like you cannot understand that stealing peoples land will bring trouble. Given that Israle has killed 10X the number of civilians, only a fool would not understand the hatred. I once supported Israel, but over the years it has been comdemned by its own actions. Thieves should not prosper.
The problem here...
The problem here is that you, like the Arabs, don't seem to understand that Israel exists *right now* and questions over whether the land was stolen are relevant only insofar as they serve as a pretext to justify Arab attacks on Jews in the Middle East that predate the establishment of Israel by decades. But if they want the land back, they will have to take it by force, and Israel is going to answer in kind.
So it turns out that your attitude is exactly what is going to assure a continuation of the violence.
just saying "they started", "but they did that before" and so on ad infinitum going right back to biblical times is not helpful. Sure, Israel is established on land that was occupied before that by Palestinian arabs, Mameluke turks, crusaders, romans, jesus-era jews, who themselves took the land from ... etc etc.
What is clear in the modern context is that Israel was carved out of land that was owned by other people. The only logical long-term solution that is more or less accepted by most concerned is an Israeli state within the borders originally established by the UN and a Palestinian state in what is now the West Bank. The problem is the minority of extremists on either side, with Hamas and hardline islamic states not recognising Israel (but many arab states now recognise Israel, and the Palestinian Authority does this de facto if not de jure). On the Israeli side there are plenty of extremists for whom all the occupied territories + many lands beyond should be Israeli. however when it comes to peace talks, Palestine justifiably wants Israel to freeze settlements before peace talks, Israel pretends that this is some sort of unacceptable pre-condition, but it's really an excuse from teh Israelis whose current hardline right wing government does not want peace talks, it just wants to grab as much land as it can.
Israel's attitude right now is of claiming to want to discuss how to divide up a pizza, while forcing the other down at gunpoint and eating the pizza slice by slice at it's leisure
RE: James Micallef
Yeah, but three-quarters of the original pizza was given to the Arabs by us Brits without consulting the Jews. It's called Jordan. The Jews then agreed to accept a small and irregular piece of the remaining slice as decided by the UN, only the Arabs said no pizza for the Jews was their prefered option. Do you understand that? UN makes decision, Jews agree (despite it being much less pizza than they were promised), but Arabs with already more than 85% of the pizza in the bag said "no". I know it's not fashionable to remind the fashionably irate of the historical facts, but then you sound so uneducated it really needs doing.
RE: How is it
The UN partition plan was accepted by the Jews, it was the Arabs that then tried to steal the bit given to the Jews. The problem for the Arabs was the Jews fought better despite being outnumbered, because they wanted a home, whereas the Arabs already had homes and just wanted the Jews NOT to have a home.
If the Israeli authorities wanted to kill the Fakeistinian Internet, they wouldn't need to go to all the trouble of a massive DDoS, seeing as all the Paltel outgoing lines go out via Israel. I'm sure the Israelis have it rigged so, if needed, they just press one button and the West Bank and Gaza all get disconnected. The truth is Israel has more than enough PFYs with nothing better to do than to make a LOIC clone (maybe called LOI-oiyoiyoi-C?).
Let's hope the Palestinians restrict their (predictable) retaliation to DDoS attacks rather than the usual volley of rockets.
What else can they do?
If they were listened to when they protested peacefully then they might use that route more often. This latest crime is a response to Palestine being recognised by UNESCO, which is a peaceful action. They're going to be wiped out eventually, they're entitled to lash out on the way.
It's not just the Prussians who know how to party
"but sometimes slightly more sophisticated tactics are brought into play"
Like, blowing up whole shitloads of civilians with Main Battle Tanks and F-16s sourced for free from the USA?
more party chemicals
White Phosphorous anyone?
It'll really burn your brains out.
They both did that.
Geez, all this panic because they were admitted by UNESCO? Palestine is chock-full of historical sites, many of them biblical and of great importance. It really should not be a big deal except that Israel's current right-wing government consider all the west bank to be part of Israel, and on one hand say "we're open to talks", while continuing to build settlements on land that isn't theirs to build on. All things considered the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank has handled this remarkably well, there haven't been any attacks there in ages (as opposed to the Hamas nutters in the Gaza strip). They're doing Israel's police work for them, and all Israel does is undermine them
RE: James Micallef
Membership of UNESCO should be reserved for full states. Like Israel, the Fakestinians had the chance to become a full and proper state in 1948, which would have granted them full UN membership and inclusion on such bodies as UNESCO, but instead the Arabs decided they'd rather try and wipe out the Jews. They threw away their chance, and they've thrown away every chance since. Why should they be rewarded when they have avoided talks and refused to negotiate with Israel?
Meaner Philips in disguise
Matt, i'd never have thought you'd be an apologist for Israel too. Geeee.
Obviously there are some historical failures on all sides but almost laughable that it's the Palestinians that won't negotiate. The jewish settlers are nutters just like Hamas and are no better than the Dale farm (ex)residents. At least they didn't have guns and associate with hate groups. They have a god given right to live in occupied land cos some dusty old book promised it, don't see them negotiating any time soon. The last Israeli PM that stood up to them was assassinated. The current incumbent is just keeping the nutters in his government happy so he can hold on to power. The Americans support them because they think the rapture Will start there. Was such a shame that Sharon had his stroke as he seemed to have his Paisley moment.
Stick to trolling about HP and not writing daily mail headlines.
RE: Meaner Philips in disguise
"Matt, i'd never have thought you'd be an apologist for Israel too...." So, being aware of a few historical facts (which I note you don't bother to try rebutting) makes me an "apologist"? I suppose it's just people that have fews that show up your ignorance that get labelled as "apologists", right?
"......but almost laughable that it's the Palestinians that won't negotiate...." Netanyahu has offered talks to Abbas many times, it is Fatah that has refused, that is a simple fact. Try doing some background reading before jumping on whatever is the fashionable political bandwagon of the moment. Indeed, Netanyahu actually ordered a six month halt on settlement building in a previous attempt to get Abbas to the table, and Fatah refused. Netanyahu has made the same offer again this week, and again it has been refused. The Obumbler has been beating his head against the Fatah wall for two years now in an attempt to get them to the table, all without success. Please do explain how that is "laughable" as it seem quite tragic to me.
"....The jewish settlers are nutters just like Hamas...." And I suppose you made an in-depth study of the issues, there, right? Yeah, right! The big difference is that when there is an attack on the Fakeistinians it is investigated by the Israelis and, if it proves to have been committed by settlers, they are arrested and tried. Here is just one example http://www.israel-palestinenews.org/2010/11/israeli-settler-convicted-of-kidnapping.html. On the other hand, when Fakeistinians of any political group attack Israelis it is lauded as an heroic act. As just one example, the PA recently named a square after terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, whose "heroic act" was being part of a 1978 Fatah attack that killed 38 civillians (including 13 kids) and an unarmed American nature photographer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre). Hilariously, the naming of the square coincided with the 2010 visit of Joe Biden, when the media got in a frenzy over the announcement that the Jerusalem authority was processing a permission to build some houses in East Jerusalem, which was somehow much more of a horrific incitement than naming a square after a childmurderer. But I'm betting your skimreading of history missed out on the whole Mughrabi episode too.
"....They have a god given right to live in occupied land cos some dusty old book promised it...." Sorry, do you mean the Muslims?
"....don't see them negotiating any time soon...." There will be negotiations when Fatah accepts the offer of talks already made many times by the Israelis. Indeed, waaay back when Bill Clinton was prez, the Israelis (Ehud Barak) made an offer that was 95% of the West Bank plus bits of current Israel and safe passage routes to link to Gaza, plus limited right of return, yet Arafat prefered to walk away from the table and start the Intifada. Political commentators were astounded that Arafat turned down such a genearous offer, indeed he didn't even attempt to negotiate, he just returned to violence.
"....Stick to trolling about HP...." I suggest you stick to reading IndyMedia, as facts seem to just upset you.