back to article Details of all internet traffic should be logged – MEP

A member of the European Parliament wants users' "traffic data", rather than the specific content of online communications, to be logged under expanded EU laws on data storage. This is according to a statement from the European People's Party (EPP) at the European Parliament. Tiziano Motti, an Italian MEP, wants to extend the EU …

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As soon as I saw the headline I knew this idiot would be using societies' current biggest bogeyman - the microscopic number of paedophiles in humanity - to drum up fear and thus credibility for his plan to pry on EVERYONE else.

Personally I've got nothing at all to hide but I still care not one bit from some overpaid, unelected MEP plonker wanting to have my data logged.

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Ru
Big Brother

The odd thing is,

most of this sort of tracking is already done. A bit of good, old fashioned police work garnished with a few court orders should get enough information to link person A with activity B if B was done on or via the internet without the aid of something like TOR.

Times, IP addresses, DHCP leases, MAC addresses, security camera footage of net cafes and the like... presumably mobile networking logs DHCP sessions, base station IDs, and IMEI numbers or whatever the nG equivalent of MAC addresses is and so on. What does this guy expect to gain? A magical 'whodunnit' service which prints out the name and address of whoever posted or downloaded some image on the interwebs at the press of a button?

I wonder how well it'll work on non-european systems.

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Anonymous Coward

Agree with all but..

"unelected" - just because *you* didn't vote for him, doesn't mean he's unelected.

At least in Italy the majority of people bothered to vote (65%). Here in the UK, we barely got 35% turnout and you'd be embarrassed to see which countries got lower (Czech Rep, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia)

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Why is it that people get so wound up about 'unelected' MEPs?

When:

1. They're elected

2. We have the House of Lords

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MEP

We don't get to vote on MEPs ... just MPs.

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FAIL

Nothing to hide?

@HP Cynic: "Personally I've got nothing at all to hide but..."

Well then, please start by detailing your sex-life her on this comment thread. I'd like you to post pictures and movies of you in action too, since you have nothing to hide. I want to know every and all detail, no exceptions. And, please, attach a log of your activities and communication in minute detail too.

Lets see how much you have "nothing to hide".

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@RU

"The odd thing is, most of this sort of tracking is already done. A bit of good, old fashioned police work garnished with a few court orders should get enough information to link person A with activity B if B was done on or via the internet without the aid of something like TOR."

That's the point though. At the moment the authorities have to work to get the stuff, which means they only go to the effort if they think it is worth it. I want them to have to work and get court orders to do this. Then there is less chance of abuse than there is if you can just type someone's name into your screen and get all that persons on-line activity with the click of a mouse.

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Agreed

Anyone supporting this proposal should be aware they have helped tilt the slippery slope just a bit more.

There will be a bureaucracy associated with this and it will need continual feeding with taxpayer funds.

By all means try and find a way to manage down the effects of porn and child/adult abuse but check whether this is the most effective way, first

What is the cost/benefit - and don't cry 'think of the children', because I am. I am looking for a 'better' solution with less negatives!

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WTF?

@ CD001

You're kidding / trolling right?

Because if not, what did you think the European Elections were for?

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This post has been deleted by its author

@Maurice Shakeshaft

"By all means try and find a way to manage down the effects of porn"

And what 'effects' would those be pray tell. Go ahead, I'm listening.....

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Anonymous Coward

MEPs are UNelected

What we get in the UK was an opportunity to express a preference for a PARTY, not an MEP. When one of the MEPs allegedly representing me decided that they wanted out, the relevant party manager APPOINTED their replacement. No need for the tedious nuisance of an election. The MEP's primary accountability is therefore to their party managers, NOT to the electorate.

Compare and contrast with the situation that formerly prevailed in the USSR (15 marks).

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@Paw

European Elections are there to provide the facade of democracy - to elect the people who will rubber stamp the decisions made by the unelected European Commission.

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I beg to differ, slightly

I appreciate your comments, you're point of view is spot on - except on one, important point. You do have something to hide. We all do.. it's called your "privacy". Our private life, whether online, in the living room or whereever else is called that for a reason. We expect it, it's a human right recognised by many democratic constitutions as a necessity. We want our private lives private so we can do whatever we please without having the judgement of others impinging on our lifestyles, artistic expression or whatever else we choose to do with the limited time we have on this planet.

My own objection is that a politician of all people is going use the moral highground and say everyone should be watched in case we break the law.. I'm sorry, but does he not realise he's a politician? Does the term pot-kettle-black mean nothing to these people? There's a theory that thieves are the most paranoid about people stealing from them, which tells me a lot about paranoid politicians and the laws they want enacted. I'm thinking a quick gander at the photos he stores on his computer might be a good idea..

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Pardon me, but your prejudices are showing...

What on earth is people's problem with the House of Lords not being elected? The House of Lords has been for the last century, a revising chamber rather than a legislative one. Its role is to look at the politically-motivated, knee-jerk stuff that comes out of the Commons, trim off the worst excesses and try to turn it into something akin to decent, acceptable law. When the two houses strongly disagree, the Commons always prevails. It's not elected, the members who do the work do so because they're genuinely interested in doing it, and it's (mostly) not appointed by whatever shower is currently in power, either. Blair and crowd did their damndest to stack it with enough of their cronies to let them push anything that they wanted, but not withstanding that, it's still a check on the worst excesses of the Commons. As such, it's the LAST body that ought to be looking over its shoulders at what the electors will say in two years time.

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@b0llchit

What a ludicrous position. Comments on such articles always deteriorate quickly and this is no exception. I also have nothing to hide. That is, nothing I'd hide from a court of law should I ever be in such an unfortunate position. However there's a world of difference between having nothing to hide from the law and posting details of every activity here. I bought my wife a christmas present this morning but if I post details of it hear then she, as a fellow reader, might see the comment which would make christmas that little bit less fun. Moronic.

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Stop

Clueless award of the day goes to

what was this attention-seeker's name again?

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Anonymous Coward

Tiziano Motti - You are a fucking idiot

That is all.

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Thumb Down

George Orwell Revolving

Well so long as the Italians pay for it ... after all they can afford it

And while we're at it, why not install Police CCTV in all homes, as most murder victims are killed by their partners?

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Anonymous Coward

Ahhh... no one cares about murderers

We're happy to have them living in our society. No register for them. Get your priorities right, it's the paedos that threaten the existence of mankind.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 1041

We do have a register for Murderers, because anyone convicted of murder gets a mandatory life sentence. This means that even when they're released from prison they are tracked and monitored by the authorities, they are subject to recall to prison due to any offense.

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FAIL

I expect this

to happen shortly after the flying car and cheap fusion. And world peace.

Clueless twit.

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Hahahah, what a complete tool! so pedos will not be able to just install an linux without the 'digital signature' and use a VPN/TOR then?

Oh, Won't someone think of the children!

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Silver badge

at least then linux will become synonymous with paedos

everyone wins

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FAIL

linux = outlawed?

"Ghioni said his "precise mechanism" would need the "collaboration" of operating system manufacturers such as Microsoft and Apple"

What about the other OS's ....

What could possibly go wrong with this plan.

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Ru
Big Brother

"What about the other OS's "

But you won't be using those, and by your own admission they are tools with which you can circumvent this tracking system, and therefore pervert the course of justice. Or something.

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Big Brother

GTFO

"Ghioni said his "precise mechanism" would need the "collaboration" of operating system manufacturers such as Microsoft and Apple to log all activities on their systems, according to the automated translation of the report."

My interpretation of this is system logs that are then uploaded to some central store.

What's next? We all wear pinhole cameras on our coats to monitor what we've been up to?

How soon before Linux becomes outlawed by not following this requirement?

Give me a break.

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Black Helicopters

Follow me Fanboi

At least Ill have one more follower on twitter

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Facepalm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No.

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Megaphone

Translation

"I know sod-all about technology, but I am being paid lots of money by the voters, so I have to do something to make it look like I give a damn, and am working"

And call me cynical, but I bet that they would put something in the legislation to make them exempt. After all, they are so much better than the rest of us proles.

As it happens, my traffic is being monitored with my consent (for a small fee) - and if I choose I can bypass it. But that is the point; it is with my consent.

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Flame

@Tony S RE "Translation" It is indeed a very serious problem - the attention seeking.......

...........politician that is. I have in my lifetime seen more examples of bad, poorly thought out and counter-productive legislation "birthed" by some politico or other than almost any other source of changes to law/public policy (other than the results of the special interest lobbying industry of course). I won't bother to list the potential horrendous consequences of this idiot's proposals, it is obvious from the thread that posters are well aware of the damage that such stupidity could do. There are few more pernicious sources of bad law than a politician with a hard-on for personal publicity and a pathological need to be seen to being do something - anything, however bloody stupid it is.

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Anonymous Coward

Don't get me wrong

I'm all for batching the bad guys.

But why do us good guys have to be under suspicion as well?

These politicians really don't understand the Internet do they?

They don't even seem to understand life.

Anon, not cause I'm a bad-un, just because it's how I prefer things to be.

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Anonymous Coward

We are all sinners and there is no help for us.

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Anonymous Coward

I can just see the UK embracing this idea.

...if it wasn't impossible to impliment.

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Unhappy

Oh...

I don't think we's let a little thing like that stop us

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Bronze badge
Devil

Actually, as far as it goes, this idea a bit too bland for our lot. All it means is an unimaginably big log. They'll want to spice it up a bit, pinpointing addresses and such so that the trace filters in use become just as unwieldy as the logs they produce or, at the very least, are a technically impossible to implement (e.g. DEA)

;)

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Anonymous Coward

Err...

So you didn't read the comments by Ken Clarke at the bottom of the article?

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Facepalm

Inexpensive?

Ok, let's pretend the solution is technically possible across all potential end systems, and fantasize that the privacy aspect can somehow be handled securely.

Does Tiziano Motti have a disk drive or tape manufacturing company based in his home town? Never mind explaining how the key can be stored by the user; who's storing all that traffic detail, on what, and who bought all that equipment? It might be inexpensive to operate (it wouldn't be really, but theoretically it could be), but what about to buy and install?

If the system were just going to store hashes, then I expect the sites they are worried about would install something to regularly modify their content enough to change the hash values. Somebody will need a permanent record of what the content actually looked like at the time of the download, so he's not just going to back up the internet, he's going to retain regular backup snapshots for months. Or did I miss a detail?

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Anonymous Coward

Take note: Tiziano Motti

Oh it sounds so measured, so reasonable. But it does mean investigating every last one of us to pick off the few bad apples, maybe. IIRC not the first time he's proposed another "think of the children" canard. Soon he'll have earned the "paver of the road to hell" merit badge.

Data retention has already been shown to not significantly help. It does promote taking dragnets to datastores, and that does indeed increase, sometimes lots. To me that indicates it promotes lazyness and facilitates arsecovering in a perverse sort of way.

There's so many better things you could be doing. You could be putting better effort into catching perps in the act, whatever they might be doing --if you need to single out notorious, uncommon and narrow hot buttons for such broad and general measures your arguments aren't very strong--, and for that you only need to be able to legally, with warrant in hand, tap any and all thing they might be using to communicate.

We're not trying to do extensive pro-active pre-suspicion traffic analysis spookery to the populace, are we? Or were you thinking more of lucrative side uses of all those black boxes and easily mislaid keys, don motti?

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Anonymous Coward

Alas...

A headling that will likely never be published ... "MP talks sense."

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Silver badge
FAIL

"Ghioni said his "precise mechanism" would need the "collaboration" of operating system manufacturers such as Microsoft and Apple to log all activities on their systems, according to the automated translation of the report."

And presumably it would also have to make owning an old computer, or owning Linux, illegal? Or force them not to be able to connect to the Internet. Oh, and make reinstalling your operating system illegal. Oh, and proxies.

FAIL for obvious reasons.

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MJI
Silver badge
Facepalm

What planet is he from?

What a tool!

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Happy

A tool... Methinks you insult tools!

Wouldn't calling him a tool insinuate that he actually had a useful purpose?

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Silver badge

This shows that

As despicable as the paedophiles are, the politicians are much more dangerous. Where is my pitchfork?

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Happy

Pitchforks and torches.

And don't forget the spare batteries.

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Anonymous Coward

What do you have to hide?

Everything!

Anonymous for a reason!

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Silver badge

What colour of shirt was he wearing?

I wonder what this would do to the price of hard disks.

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wow, just wow

This man's ignorance beggars belief.

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Childcatcher

You're not 12, and you know what this is.

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Anonymous Coward

Have you seen enough hentai to know where this is going?

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