back to article Jaguar recalls over 17,600 X-types in the UK

Luxury car manufacturer Jaguar was left with egg on its face this week after a glitch in its cruise control code forced it to recall 17,678 vehicles in the UK. In a letter to customers, the company warned that X-Type models produced between 2006 and 2010 with diesel engines could be affected by a glitch in the cruise control …

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Gold badge
Headmaster

Ford Granada you mean?

I was going to use the Rise of the Machines® logo, but pedant is probably closer.

I thought that this affected what was really the Ford Granada shoe-horned into what should've been a Jaguar (hence the tractor engine & modified suspension from the modeo to use cheaper Ford parts)?

At least is sounds like they retained a key so your could at least turn it off though; unlike that Renault Leguna issue.

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Terminator

RoTM

Surely the RoTM tagline is required here?

One stealthed signal from the mothership, and all the sleazy jag owners are suddenly doing 100mph on cruise control into the nearest tree.

Simultanously wiping out all amateur golfers, accountants and headmasters in a stroke. Civilsation will collapse. Or maybe not.

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Before the "elf 'n safety" types chime in....

Jag are probably right about the impact and it'll still disengage cruise when the brakes are touched, as that control is implemented "hard" rather than "soft", for obvious reasons. They'd be shitting bricks otherwise, rather than playing it down.

The fact that they allege no customers have noticed quite probably means that the actual cruise functions (set, suspend, resume, up, down) are all OK and it's just that you sometimes can't turn the damned thing off. Any Jag owners care to comment?

Personally I favour the GM system, which has no on/off control. It's always there when you want it, effectively sat permanently in the "unset" state if unused.

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Sly
Coat

Cause it's a Jaaaaaaag

wow... an automaker that fixes something as soon as they discover it instead of making the consumer find it.

I almost feel refreshed.

now if Jags didn't cost so much (some of the lower models don't... but the desirable ones do)

/coat Mine's the one with the service manual on CD in the inside pocket for my old beater

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That's normal

"Only turning off the engine will cancel the mode in these circumstances"

In other words, 'turning it off and on again', which is a fairly normal thing to do when a computer misbehaves!

Can't imagine why they feel the need to recall them!

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Silver badge

I would summise that if you find on the motorway, you cant disengage it at 70mph (Read: 100 its a Jaaaaaag) mph, then turning the key will disable the servo assisted brakes, disable power steering and *possibly* engage the steering lock if the driver isnt used to situations like that..

I hit a rock in the road had a blowout and had an utterly hysterical woman in the milliseconds before the tyre deflated. I took the steering by its balls, applied gentle but firm braking and brought the car to a controlled stop. She, on the other hand would have wrapped the car round a tree..

Somepeople react differently and suddenly finding you cant turn the cruise off might just be enough to throe a driver into a panic.

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Anonymous Coward

Oh so very right

"then turning the key will disable the servo assisted brakes, disable power steering and *possibly* engage the steering lock if the driver isnt used to situations like that.."

Back in my early 20's, I used to turn the key on my mom's Chevy about 200m before arriving at home, then apply brakes and come to a stop right in front of my mom's house. That was, until one time i found out that the brakes would *stop working* after X seconds and I had to pull the handbrake to avoid a near crash.

NOT a nice thing to happen! Not nice indeed!!!!

Anon 'coz I don't want my mum to find out...

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Silver badge
Coat

You "had an utterly hysterical woman in the milliseconds before the tyre deflated" and took something by the balls? What on earth were you up to in there?

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Hmm ford CC of death again

I assume they obtained a load of fords (second hand) cc of death.

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Joke

In another anouncement,

BMW have said that all of their models from 1970 to present were affected by a glitch in which the indicators would not work when responding to inputs from the driver. it is thought that nobody has ever noticed this glitch.

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@SuperTim

[STANDING OVATION FROM ALL MY CO-WORKERS, EXCEPT THE GUY WHO DRIVES A Z-4]

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Silver badge

A similar problem also affects Audis but is often accompanied by the cruise control closing the gap to the vehicle in front to just a few millimetres.

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@Armando

I drive a 5-series and even I laughed :D

(I do use the indicators though :P)

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Joke

"I do use the indicators though"

To signal change of direction, or to hang articles of clothing?

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Joke

Are they sure?

"No customer has been affected and there had been no accidents or injuries."

Should that maybe read

"No customer has been affected and there had been no accidents or injuries. That we know of at any rate"

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Stop

ROTM Thwarted!

Well done to the John Connor of the automtive industry for preventing another "ROTM" scenario.

This also proves that sometimes it's just better to keep you foot on the accelerator pedal..

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This post has been deleted by its author

WTF?

It's annoying enough when the bluetooth on my head unit crashes and i have to power cycle it by switching off the engine ... but to have to do that *while driving* just so you can stop the car from auto-accelerating??

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FAIL

I can see it now...

cruise control on.. 70mph...

Oh, it wont disengage... What was that advice? Oh yes. Turn the engine off.

Click.

WTF!! Wheres my power steering gone? My power assisted breaks?

Oh sh!t one click too far and thats the steering lock on.

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Anonymous Coward

its BRAKES not BREAKS

power steering and brakes are intended to work, a bit, after engine switch-off, there is a vacuum reservoir for the purpose, storing erm, nothing. - still enough for the first press or first turn.

the steering lock should not come on till the key is removed.

when did you last, like actually, drive a car?

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@kevin 3

"its BRAKES not BREAKS"

If you drive a Toyota, same thing.

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like, every day, init

I have in fact driven a car at 70mph when the engine cut out (alternator failure led to dead battery).

The symptoms in this case were as i describe.

The power assisted steering did load up and become VERY heavy. Which could catch you out unexpectedly.

When I found a lay-by to stop in the braking was greatly reduced and required a lot more effort than normal.

And indeed the steering lock should not come on until the key is removed. But I find my current car impossible to restart without actually removing the key. If that is the case with a jaguar? I dont know.

Simply pointing out the risks in turning off the engine of a car at speed.

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Vacuum reservoir as backup for hydraulic or electrical systems? On my current car (also a Jag, though a S rather than an X) a faulty sensor was causing the engine to randomly cut out, and as I recall there was no perceptible reserve of assistance for either braking or steering. Which was nice...

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"I find my current car impossible to restart without actually removing the key"

Bummer if you stall it then?

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Anonymous Coward

how to slow down safely with a dead engine

yes OK, it was a barbed question, sorry.

The point is that the brakes and steering should not instantly load-up, and will continue through a short ignition on/off cycle.

With your dead engine at 70mph, you have to keep it spinning in high gear (to minimise slow-down) and to keep the vacuum going. If you must roll as far as possible then you can keep the clutch in, giving it a bit of a "bump start" every time you feel it getting heavy.

naughty you for driving it so long with the battery light on.

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Big Brother

Get out of Jail Free

Sounds like a good excuse in any Speeding or Red-light camera incidents for those Jag owners!

"My cruise control jammed" Though of course you'd have to have come from a faster road!

the A1's 70>60>50>40 zones are likely candidates

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Stop

According to the letter even hitting the breaks or clutch won't stop it.

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FAIL

Knowing how a car works fail

Hitting the clutch disengages the drivetrain from the engine. If you keep the pedal down the engine can do what it likes, the car won't accelerate. No good in an auto mind you.

As for the servo assisted brakes, diesel engines don't produce vacuum in the inlet manifold like petrol engines do as there is no venturi in the throttle body, they have an ancilliary vacuum pump to supply the servo etc. This is normally engine driven so if you cut the engine but leave the drivetrain engaged the engine (and hence the vacuum pump) will still be turning. Ditto the PAS pump, as long as it's not an electric one relying on an alternator output to run.

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still

even with no power assisted steering or brakes im sure if you are in panic mode you will still easily nail those breaks.... lack of ABS might be a worry these days mind....

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Alert

A couple of points...

Firstly,TeeCee - apparently, pressing the brakes won't switch off the cruise control in the error state, or at least, not according to my reading of the 4 letters I have from Jag so far... And the CC on the x is different to the mondeo - it's more like you describe the GM one - up/set, down, resume, cancel, but no on/off like the mondeo has.

Secondly, Im told by a ford master technician that it's similar to a problem with the ranger they had a couple of years ago - recycled code that someone has just noticed, perhaps?

Thirdly, this has been out a while, as I got one of mine done, but then Jag suspended it as it had a nasty habit of frying ECUs, and I haven't been told that it's been restarted again cos I'm still waiting for the other one to be done.

Finally, most importantly, so listen up El Reg, it's not just 2006 to 2010 cars - there are some '55 plates affected, including mine. Bugger.

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Devil

Title? ex Deputy PM!

"...as I got one of mine done, but then Jag suspended it .... I'm still waiting for the other one to be done"

You are John Prescott AICMFP.

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Another car electronics problem. Having looked recently, it is so hard to find a decent yet simple car nowdays; indeed I gave up. I wonder which manufacturer will be the first to realise that there is a market for good quality cars that are not equipped with a pile of such features.

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Joke

Smudge - here is your prize - it's a left hook, courtesy of our ex-deputy PM ;)

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Bronze badge
Thumb Up

@SuperTim

I think Tim has noticed the bug in BMWs that I had noticed myself, although I think they may have been sharing flawed technology with other manufacturers who make vehicles, such as the new 4x4 style Volvos, which also have without doubt this flaw.

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Coat

I'm having trouble with the idea that Ford Jaguar actually managed to sell that many cars at all!

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Stop

Me too...

2006 plate.

Btw, the x type diesel is an utter steal thanks to people who turn their noses up at it. Where else are you going to get a fully loaded luxury estate with sports suspension, touchscreen satnav, Bluetooth car kit built in, front and rear proximity sensors and a bulletproof transit engine (yes, it's in the tourneo as well) with 49000 miles on it for under £8000?

Keep the disparaging comments coming, I'll buy a 2009 one in a few years :-)

In the meantime I'd better get Jag to deal with Ford's shitty software, eh?

Stop, as I hope I can.

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Absolutely

I love mine to bits, it's a 2005 diesel, been chipped. It's fast enough for any road in traffic-sodden Britain, comfortable, extremely economical and holds the road fantastically well. I do not know why they stopped making them. I'll definitely get another.

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aaaaaargh - brakes work without vacuum assistance.

Andy Watt - you didn't mention fuel economy so i will tell you where you will find better value. LS400 (or 430 etc)

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Coat

Shame Microsoft didn't write the code....

...you'd only need to close and open the Windows!

Yep, someone had to say it. I'm off now..

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Terminator

Adaptive cruise control

Not sure I'd ever entirely trust adaptive cruise control (where it slows down as you approach traffic and resumes when the road is clear) because of this issue. By the time you realise it's locked up it's too late to do anything before you hit what it should have slowed down for.

BTW, you can knock an auto into neutral while moving. It's not recommended and I did it accidentally, but it would work. Don't put it in Park though - there'll either be a big bang as the locks break or the drive wheels will lock.

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Anonymous Coward

Whoops

I used to work in a software safety role for the supplier who I think probably manufactured the engine ECU in question. My first thought is why it took so long to identify the failure. Almost certainly that model (if model-based design was used) and code have been re-used, how did it creep through verification and validation testing, plus integration testing by Jaguar? Poor specification? A re-used Ford spec which wasn't valid on the Jaguar platform? Inadequate testing? I'd hope there's a root cause analysis being done somewhere, recalls are very expensive.

Secondly, as some posters have said, shutting down upon detection of a fault isn't necessarily the safest mitigation in the event of an ECU failure. Loss of servo assistance, power steering and simply a sudden loss of power are all hazards in their own right. Moreover, doing a reset (i.e. "Key off") won't necessarily shut down an ECU, many have a power-hold relay which keeps the ECU powered for perhaps several minutes after key-off while it goes through shutdown processes.

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Meh

Erm...

This isn't "new" news - the recall has been ongoing for some time (Sep 2nd, IIRC) : Source : http://jaguarforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=47872

Although there *were* problems with the original recall work frying some ECUs, so it was stop-started a few times...

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Bronze badge

raving loony sutch screaming lord whatever dude

While Clarkson and his cronies are by no means credible, they as a trio agree, that the Mondeo is one of the few vehicles they all like.

I think people should really cut Ford some slack. I look in the work car park and see a tide of grey, silver, navy and black 'suited' vehicles and if I'm lucky, I spot a maroon, orange, bright green or white Ford and am immensely thankful that we're not all boring drab grey, silver, navy and black suits.

Added to which, the Mondeo is truly a well-designed, well-built GOOD driving vehicle, particularly when you consider its price compared to other vehicles in the same category.

For the record, I have a '96 Volvo 850 and I know how to use its indicators.

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