back to article GM OnStar cars will upload all data unless owners opt out

Cars fitted with OnStar's technology will be tracked even if the owners don't sign up to the service, in a change to the company's policy that will kick in come December. OnStar is a service offered by General Motors USA, which inserts a mobile phone, along with telemetry tracking kit, into cars sold by the company. Owners are …

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disconnect it

Easier and more reliable to physically disable OnStar than to rely on OnStar to honor your request. Pull a fuse, disconnect an antenna, etc. My OnStar equipped car os old enough it is not an issue as it still has an analog cellular radio and is no longer supported/connected by OnStar.

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Stop

But then...

...won't they assume from the lack of signal that the car has been stolen without your knowledge and put out a report to the police about it? Plus they may rig the car so that a lack of OnStar hampers certain nonessential-but-useful features--like navigation for some cars.

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Stop

Nope

The owner's manual in 2011 GM cars specifically talks about physically disabling OnStar if you want - but does tell you you should go to your GM dealer and pay them to have this done...

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FAIL

stolen without your knowledge

As opposed to stolen with your knowledge?

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Not really.

They only report crashes or stolen cars for people that pay for the OnStar service. That doesn't mean they don't have data on the car available though. Disabling the cellular radio should not affect any functionality other than OnStar.

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Well, that tells me to buy a somewhat older Cadillac, rather than a newer one. Black DTS. WOT?

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Sure, if you trust them to do that. What if they are hacks?

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Anonymous Coward

If you want to travel anonymously ...

You get a taxi. From a taxi rank. And you pay with cash. Every spy knows that.

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Anonymous Coward

This is not an issue for spies.

It's someone going about their ordinary everyday business that someone else disapproves of.

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Anonymous Coward

So another human will see your face

and have your DNA from your sweaty banknotes?

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Happy

Unless...

You go around with a Burka, sunglasses and gloves.

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LPF

This of course will enable road pricing to be carried out!

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Stop

"... already getting over-the-air software modifications."

... like a following policeman requesting that the car in front slow to a crawl.... or explode... Im sure prety soon interfering with your leagally required tracking system will be made illegal, if not, would certainly invalidate your insurance.

I wondered when this would happen apparently sooner than I thought :-(

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Pirate

Cops can already remote-disable the engine

Actually, it's already possible for cops to remotely disable your car's engine if you have OnStar. It's billed as an anti-theft measure but how long will it be until cops start abusing this functionality.

Hats of to British SciFi writer Peter Hamilton who saw this coming ten years ago!

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Business opportunity

Who will be the first to write an application which allows motorists to transmit messages of their own devising to OnStar, proving definitively that they were travelling the right way down that one-way street, wearing a seat belt and doing no more than 20 mph?

These security swords, eh?, they always have another edge.

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Me. I've been working on one to get the phone onto our current network provider.

I really like OnStar ... I have a couple quibbles about this and that, but it's a great idea. And I can see GM using the crash data to make better/safer cars. But even if I trusted GM to not share data about me as a matter of policy, I don't know that I trust every employee and contractor there with that, and I certainly don't trust hackers who could get at it.

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If GM were going to make better, safer cars they would already have done so. Instead they just sat around making big-arsed SUV shitbuckets that chew fuel and it sent them broke.

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Critical data

>Until now, that data was only available where owners had been signed up to the service

Not so.

In nearly all recent cars there is an event data recorder which loops continually until the airbag triggers and then it stops recording thereby saving the critical information prior to the crash.

Your car is already watching you.

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"Your car is already watching you"

Not mine.

Data recorder? No.

Airbag? No.

One of the joys of driving an older car is that the most techy thing on it is electronic ignition (although the real Luddite could still rely on pesky points).

I can still listen to cassette tapes too.

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Anonymous Coward

Driver an older diesel truck...

...and you barely need electricity to run it, as putting in 2nd gear and letting it go from a small hill will do it. You don't even need spark plugs. Some REALLY old trucks were jumpstarted with a shotgun shell. These engines could survive an atomic blast EMP and keep running.

Modern diesel generators are started with compressed air. And even without pressure in the system, there is a manual pump.

And I enjoy tapes too.

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@matthew

If your car is old enough to have a computer in it. (Post 1986 I believe) Then the computer in your car probably does have this ability!

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I wonder if there is an easily accessible SIM card or something that contains the vehicle's identification. If so think of the mischief-making!

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404
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OBD2 and 3

You can access all the data from the OBD port under your dash - there are various control units to play with, including the OnStar system. HP Tuner software works pretty good.

I already do this in my quest to get 30mpg out of my GMC Canyon (deliberately purchased without OnStar)., it's a bitch sometimes but worth messing with.

Big BUT here though, one of my boys was tapped from behind on a gravel road two years ago (they still feud out here and my truck was a certain color) in a 03 Dodge Ram quadcab,pickup went over a 40ft cliff, hit a tree, and didn't get airbag deployment - went to sue Chrysler over the BS (my little girl slammed the windshield and my son did the steering wheel and windshield - with seatbelts on - they were hurting), during the investigation all the PCM/BCM data magically got wiped. Chrysler win. I'm still paying hospital bills over that accident.

:(

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Boffin

No.1 Why not sue the other driver?

No.2 Why do you need to pay hospital bills - don't you live in a civilised country?

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Unhappy

Answers

1. They never caught them.

and

2. No - Unless you count the idiots who run the United States as civilized - THEY have free medical care.

:|

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Ale

Premiums

This should be great for the insurance premiums of those of us with nothing to hide!

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Anonymous Coward

If you have nothing to hide...

you have nothing to fear! When will you learn! Get with the program.

That you may not want others to know about you is irrelevant. Monitoring is for your own good. After all, your mileage, fuel and location claim for your expenses and tax return is to be recorded on your expense report automatically, wont it be....

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So...

Those who get involved in crashes due to bad driving are no longer subsidised by those who drive correctly.

Seems fair.

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@Chad H.

Two minor points

>by those who drive correctly

Should read "by those of us who drive correctly", unless you're one of the bad drivers

And, not wishing to give anybody in authority any ideas, but unless they link in a camera system this won't show whether you were using a mobile phone, eating a snack or, as is not that uncommon, engaging in some form of in sexual activity.

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Anonymous Coward

Bad driving

Yes - if only it could monitor the amount of attention being paid to the road and the surroundings, and the degree of anticipation being applied, the two primary causes of accident.

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So I see...

Because we can't monitor everything, we should monitor nothing?

Great. If someone gets away with theft, it must be OK for me to steal

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Pirate

Cor, a slow learner!

Thirteen years of New Labour and you still haven't learned; are you a bit slow, perhaps?

If data can be abused, it WILL be abused. If sensitive data can be lost, then it is CERTAIN to be lost, repeatedly, and leaked all over the entire world without any redress or compensation. If the authorities can dream up a way to bilk you of more of your hard-earned money by some fiat of legislation, then they will do this and happily skip and giggle their way to Orwell's 1984 by any back door they can find.

If you get a car fitted with this spyware, then physically disable it immediately. Cut off the antennae, remove the SIM, hammer the poxy thing into dust. DO NOT trust a government to act in your best interest; they never, ever do.

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WTF?

Or better yet - wear a tinfoil hat, that will stop them!

How exactly do you see this data being misused?

Before you suggest location data, can I remind you that we already have that from your mobile phone?

So some information on whether youve been wearing your seatbelt now additionally gets to sit in done company's database until a court requests it. Boo hoo.

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@Chad

You seem to be rathy touchy.

>How exactly do you see this data being misused?

For a start it only tells halft the story. As I pointed out earlier it does not record the behaviour of the driver which is more important than hard data.

Given an accident, let's say that one driver is going slightly above the speed limit, another driver dawdling along is distracted by, for the sake of argument, talking on a mobile phone and drifts into the path of the first driver causing a collision.

What conclusion are crash investigators going to come to by analysing the available data?

Someone cuts you up forcing you into the path of another car. What does the data show?

The problem with having half the facts is that no amount of reasoning on your part will change the opinion of insurance claims / police investigators because those hard facts prove you to be falsifying an explanation.

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@Chad

"So some information on whether youve been wearing your seatbelt now additionally gets to sit in done company's database until a court requests it."

I don't think you need monitoring software to tell if a seatbelt was in use - tell-tale strap marks and/or your face decorating the windshield normally suffice.

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cd

Anyone who drives a GM car...

Deserves to be tracked and ratted...

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Oh come on. For one thing, they don't get their brakes from Toyota.

GM has made some pretty good cars in recent years. The Cadillac CTS is darn good, the Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice was a fun little car, the Pontiac G6 was a darn good car for its class, and Buick has had the highest customer satisfaction rating in Consumer Reports. And when I test-drove a Volt at an event, even my wife (whom I've nicknamed "Parnelli" and who hates American cars) was impressed. They still make some that aren't good, but at least they aren't as hateful as the Prius or as ugly as the Nissan Cube.

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MJI
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There are some good ones

Mainly Austrailian

The European ones were good a while back - remember the Senator?

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You can bet...

...the insurance companies are paying some sort of access fee for that info. I would also bet Homeland Security in the US gets access to your location, speed and where you have been. For your safety and protection, of course.

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Sir

From a safety point of view, and although I am a badge carrying tin-foiler, I think this is a good idea. Cars are more likely to be involved in an accident than aeroplanes etc, and no-one complains that planes have black-boxes that even record the voice chatter in the cockpit.

However, I see no need for this information to be made available to anyone UNLESS the car has been involved in an accident. What next? On-board breathalyzer/blood-test that must be taken before the car will start, and report you to the rozzers?

From a privacy point of view this is a complete nightmare that would make Orwell sit down and write another 200 pages.

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"What next? On-board breathalyzer/blood-test that must be taken before the car will start, and report you to the rozzers?"

Not so "what next" as "just upon us"

http://www.testsymptomsathome.com/als21.asp

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In car brethalizers

Already exist, and can be mandated by the courts. They prevent startup and randomly check up on you as you drive.

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Anonymous Coward

Opt out? If I had that thing in my car, I'd be physically ripping it out. Like you could trust your 'opt out' to be honoured, and not rescinded upon demand from a court/the police/the insurers/an exciting new data-sharing agreement with Google...

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Coat

drive classics

duh! Who cares about the sheeple who are spending the money they don't have... buy a car for cash that's exempt from emissions due to being so old that you only have safety inspections at most. All the money you're saving on car payments and extra levels of insurance can be well spent on performance modifications and fuel. why drive angry with a new car when you can drive happy with an old reliable one.

I have 3 cars... the newest is from 93. the 93 has over 200K miles on it and is getting a new engine cause the last one died a horrible death (bent valves). I've still yet to crack $10K spent on this car... though I'm getting close with the new engine. Compare that with the cost of any new car over 5 years and yeah... having a full size car that seats 5 in comfort (6 if you squeeze another up front and put up the armrests) that gets over 20mpg when all the "new and improved" sedans that can seat 6 and haul their luggage only get 2-4mph more...

yeah... I'm keeping my older cars.

Ford is complete idiots to kill off the Crown Victoria... they should have dropped the new 5.0L engine in it and started selling a performance sedan. /rant

/coat Mines the one with the Mercury Marauder badge on it

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eCall doesn't track

Don't worry that eCall will be tracking you. The system does not send out any signal before it is actually activated as a result of a serious crash.

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Sir

So we're assuming that the antenna isn't located just behind the grill then?

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......YET.

If the capability is there, some numpty in a parliment will give cause for it to be used.

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Stop

Dont think it'll make much difference to those without insurance (and proberbly no driving licence, road tax MOT etc). all it means is some datacenter somewhere will know where a cars been.

I hope when they say receive updates to the latest and greatest I hope they dont actually mean the vehicles computer as well, I'd rather not get a (quite literally) BSOD on the motor way!

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Anonymous Coward

void insurance

When you make a claim, they will reply that the system detected you speeding 6 months ago and your insurance is therefore void.

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Unhappy

It's worse than you describe

OnStar has granted themselves the right to collect this information “for any purpose, at any time, provided that following collection of such location and speed information identifiable to your Vehicle, it is shared only on an anonymized basis.”

And as we've seen, there's no such thing as anonymised GPS data: if your car is consistently parked at your home, it's pretty obvious where you live; and pretty easy to figure out who who are from that. This combination of pin-point accuracy, and their prospective customers (law enforcement, marketers, etc.) makes this data collection and resale very disturbing.

http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=1270

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